Our churches today are far removed from the early church!

[JLB777]

They are my words, but they are your doctrine and teaching!

YOu declare that a person can be saved (born again) and then be lost (un-born-again) then be saved another time (born again-again)

Why do you hide from your doctrine???????????????????????????????????????????????

The doctrine of Christ teaches us that His sheep who become lost must repent, or remain lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



The prodigal son became lost, and was “dead” to his father, but repent and returned to him and was reconciled.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Lost; spiritually dead = separated from God

Found; spiritually alive = reconciled with God




This is the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12





JLB

 

[nolidad]

The doctrine of Christ teaches us that His sheep who become lost must repent, or remain lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



The prodigal son became lost, and was “dead” to his father, but repent and returned to him and was reconciled.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Lost; spiritually dead = separated from God

Found; spiritually alive = reconciled with God

So works save us or lose us according to your doctrine.

Also you believe in being born again- being un-born again, then upon repentance being born again again. Then if lost again and repent, being born again, again, again!




This is the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12





JLB

 

[ToBeLoved]

What makes you so sure that it was not inspired?

What proof do you have that it is?

Specifically when no one else thinks it is

 

[nolidad]

The doctrine of Christ teaches us that His sheep who become lost must repent, or remain lost.


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7



The prodigal son became lost, and was “dead” to his father, but repent and returned to him and was reconciled.


It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

• your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.

Lost; spiritually dead = separated from God

Found; spiritually alive = reconciled with God




This is the doctrine of Christ.


Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12





JLB

I messed up my last response by putting my answer within yours.

Why do you hide from teh fact you believe that a person can be born again, become un-born-again, can be born again-again, can become un born-again-again, and be born again-again-again, and become un born-again-again-again. etc.etc. Is it because I say it straightforwardly and do not nuance your teaching?

This is unbiblical.

When God rebirths a believer- they are once for all time translated out of the kingdom of Darkness into the kingdom of the Son of His love!

 

[nolidad]

What makes you so sure that it was not inspired?

Well I have concluded that there are two levels of inspiration.

There is the inspiration that calls for something to become part of the bible and then there is the Holy Spirit inspiring people in their writing and speaking to glorify God! It is inspired, but not ont he level of writings that became Scripture. Those are preserved completely error free in their original autographs and faithful copies.

 

[nolidad]

I've explained many times that Ephesians and Colossians were written ONLY to "the faithful".
(Warnings to them are included ... so they might STAY on the straight and narrow.)
Some of us here are trying to WARN the unfaithful.

Well the only problem is that your definition of "the faithful" and the bibles are vastly different.

YOu say it is sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed and the Bible does not!

 

[JLB777]

Why do you hide from teh fact you believe that a person can be born again, become un-born-again,

Where does it say in the Bible that a man can become in-Born again?


Did the son become lost and dead to his father?


I teach what the Bible says, that His sheep can become lost?



JLB

 

[BCsenior]

Well the only problem is that your definition of "the faithful" and the bibles are vastly different. YOu (BCsenior) say it is sinless perfection 24/7 in thought word and deed and the Bible does not!

No, I absolutely do NOT teach that.
You should read and understand what people post here.

 

[nolidad]

Where does it say in the Bible that a man can become in-Born again?


Did the son become lost and dead to his father?


I teach what the Bible says, that His sheep can become lost?



JLB

that is what I ask you! You are the one that says that one who is born again can become un-born again and then become born -again-again. Unless you don't equate being born again with being saved.

 

[nolidad]

No, I absolutely do NOT teach that.
You should read and understand what people post here.

Well we could go back to yor posts and show that if people sin they are not Gods children (my words). That teh saints do nto sin. so if one sins they are not a saint! That is normal conclusion to that.

I know you definitely teach that one can lose their salvation. But maybe you just don't know when a child of God reaches that point when they cease being a child of God. Then How can you even know if you have not already reached that point?

 

[BCsenior]

I know you definitely teach that one can lose their salvation.

This little bit you have right ... Congratulations!

 

[Hillsage]

The doctrine of Christ teaches us that His sheep who become lost must repent, or remain lost.

Your POV would make Him a bad "hireling" and not a "good shepherd" according to scripture. Also according to biblical principle, "LOST SHEEP DON'T FIND THE SHEPHERD.

“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7

Great 'cut/paste' verses of truth. Now you just need to make 'your post above' agree with it.

The prodigal son became lost, and was “dead” to his father, but repent and returned to him and was reconciled.

"dead" in FELLOWSHIP...not relationship. He was always a "prodigal SON". You can't change relationship founded upon 'birth', only relationships formed by contract....like marriage. You can get a divorce, but you can't get 'unborn'.

It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ” Luke 15:32

Right, nothing said about he wasn't your "brother". Only that he was "dead". Obviously not dead in the flesh, because here he was. Obviously not dead in spirit, because spirit is what gives life to dead bodies. Apparently dead in the fellowship of their never lost relationship.

Lost; spiritually dead = separated from God

Found; spiritually alive = reconciled with God

Not scriptural...spiritually alive is, assumed truth based upon orthodox indoctrination and not scripture IMO.

Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9

• does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God

He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12

And the same orthodoxy that said Adam and Eve were separated from the presence of God when they were kicked out of the Garden, apparently forgot that Cain wasn't even born in Eden. He was still in the presence of the Lord AFTER KILLING ABLE.

GEN 4:16 Then Cain went away from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

Just my thoughts concerning your thoughts and scripture.

 

[BCsenior]

"dead" in FELLOWSHIP...not relationship.
... nothing said about he wasn't your "brother". Only that he was "dead".
Obviously not dead in the flesh, because here he was.
Obviously not dead in spirit, because spirit is what gives life to dead bodies.
Apparently dead in the fellowship of their never lost relationship.

There are many NT verses written to members of the churches
about losing eternal life, gaining eternal death, etc.
Some infer that they are spiritually alive or spiritually dead.

If a BAC is heavy into practicing habitual sin (w/o repentance),
is he/she spiritually alive or spiritually dead?
Ditto for is he/she still "in Christ" (w/o condemnation, Romans 8:1)?

Those believing in OSAS will say, "It's all good ... he's good to go!"
Or they will say, "He never was a BAC to begin with."

Can a genuine BAC continue forever to be disobedient to the Holy Spirit
and continue forever to practice habitual sin (w/o repentance)?
Hebrews 3 and 4 explain that disobedience proves unbelief.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Well I have concluded that there are two levels of inspiration.

There is the inspiration that calls for something to become part of the bible and then there is the Holy Spirit inspiring people in their writing and speaking to glorify God! It is inspired, but not ont he level of writings that became Scripture. Those are preserved completely error free in their original autographs and faithful copies.

I think that is not a good use of the term inspired as Christians use that term.

That then moves into opinion

 

[ToBeLoved]

There are many NT verses written to members of the churches
about losing eternal life, gaining eternal death, etc.
Some infer that they are spiritually alive or spiritually dead.

If a BAC is heavy into practicing habitual sin (w/o repentance),
is he/she spiritually alive or spiritually dead?
Ditto for is he/she still "in Christ" (w/o condemnation, Romans 8:1)?

Those believing in OSAS will say, "It's all good ... he's good to go!"
Or they will say, "He never was a BAC to begin with."

Can a genuine BAC continue forever to be disobedient to the Holy Spirit
and continue forever to practice habitual sin (w/o repentance)?
Hebrews 3 and 4 explain that disobedience proves unbelief.

You act like there are no negative issues with those who do not repent.

There are, which is why God tells us to do it.

It’s for us, not God

 

[Hillsage]

There are many NT verses written to members of the churches about losing eternal life, gaining eternal death, etc.
Some infer that they are spiritually alive or spiritually dead.

Yes, "some infer" that, but no scripture literally says it. And, for me personally, 'no longer' does scripture even 'infer' that POV either.

If a BAC is heavy into practicing habitual sin (w/o repentance),
is he/she spiritually alive or spiritually dead?
Ditto for is he/she still "in Christ" (w/o condemnation, Romans 8:1)?

If he was truly born again, YES he is saved in spirit and "he is in Christ" AND "Christ is IN him" and he walks in immortality, but only IF he walks 'sinless' in this life, just like Jesus did. If he doesn't walk in sinless perfection, his soul and body dies like any sinner....just like Moses in the wilderness died with all of the 'chosen people' who never made it to the promised life/land of the age they/he lived in. And yet, was Moses eternally lost for his sin in the wilderness? No, his 'spirit' was on the mount of transfiguration.

Those believing in OSAS will say, "It's all good ... he's good to go!"
Or they will say, "He never was a BAC to begin with."

Calvinists and Armenians have been throwing those two 'bar ditch' understandings of salvation back and forth at each other for centuries. When you don't plumb the depths of scripture everything must be filtered through an understanding that lacks.

Can a genuine BAC continue forever to be disobedient to the Holy Spirit
and continue forever to practice habitual sin (w/o repentance)?

Of course not, nobody can. That's why sin and death have to be dealt with by the only one who ever could deal with it. The one who was "slain from the foundation of the world", because God's plan was before the foundation. And Jesus didn't die for 'the church' He died for the world. But most of the church just doesn't have a 'vision' beyond the mirror.

Hebrews 3 and 4 explain that disobedience proves unbelief.

Yes, disobedience and 'loss of rewards' spelled out in 3, 4. And then chapter 6 disproves your position of eternal loss. The work of Christ was that the sins of ALL were forgiven eternally 2000 years ago, but we all still pay a temporal price for every sin WE ALL commit as a believer or an unbeliever.

You will reap what you sow, and that's why even you will end up in a casket....should the Lord tarry. Your "sinful flesh" body will pay the price of sin which is "corruption" or "decay" into 'ashes or dust'. Your spirit will return to God from whence it came, and your soul will enter into 'soul sleep' "knowing nothing" until the awakening day of judgment for all of your works.

A judgment where even Christians require the purgative fire of our "God who is a consuming fire" to be "saved"....

1CO 3:15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

Make no mistake about it brother, all your 'little fox' sins that you are justifying as being OK in this Christian walk....are NOT OK in the eyes of a sinless God.

 

[nolidad]

I think that is not a good use of the term inspired as Christians use that term.

That then moves into opinion

Well I aagree to a measure- but it connotes the difference between SCriptures which are inspired completely free of error. and sermons and writings that men of God write that are inspired but not Scripture. It is homemade I grant you, but it is just to try to show the difference of Inspiration.

 

[BCsenior]

BC:
There are many NT verses written to members of the churches
about losing eternal life, gaining eternal death, etc.
Some infer that they are spiritually alive or spiritually dead.

Hillsage: Yes, "some infer" that, but no scripture literally says it.

Let's just deal with one verse at a time ...
Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."

Is Paul trying to deceive us here ...
or is it true that some really do draw back (fall away from the faith)
with the result that they go to hell?

Meanwhile, back at the old ranchola ...
does Paul really know who of his buddies might do the red?

In case you haven't noticed ...
Paul rates 5 stars for his continual edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.
(mixed amongst which are his dire warnings of losing salvation).
There are several spiritual Truths that are "somewhat hidden" in the NT,
the reasons for which might just be discernable.

 

[Hillsage]

Let's just deal with one verse at a time ...
Hebrews 10:39
"But we are not of those who draw back to perdition,
but of those who believe to the saving of the soul."

Yes "believe to the saving of the SOUL, not the spirit or the body. Which is exactly what I've been saying and backing up with scripture. Your spirit being born again/saved is what establishes your RELATIONSHIP with God and gets you into heaven. Your soul getting saved only saves you from this world and earns you the rewards you will receive in the next. Rewards which will be manifested by the degree of glory which your resurrected body will have.

The first sermon ever preached to the infant church of Pentecost was not about saving you from HELL. It was about saving your soul from the temporal effects of sin.

ACT 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit....40 And he testified with many other words and exhorted them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."

The only salvation you determine is the salvation of your soul, not your spirit. And it is not Jesus who saves your soul. YOU can't find a scripture saying 'that' anywhere. We do find one saying WE saves souls though. And of course I believe that the Spirit saves souls, IF you listen and REPENT when the Spirit CONVICTS you of sin. But that is after you've been spirit saved and have a OSAS RELATIONSHIP with God;

JAM 5:19 My brethren, if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, 20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

But all those sins were still under the eternal 'price paid' blood of Jesus. You are only saving yourself from the temporal consequence of sins in this crooked generation in which you live and die. EG. sickness;

JOH 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

JESUS acting as a "son of man" on earth never had the authority to give eternal forgiveness for sins in heaven, YET. He only forgave temporal sins on earth.

MAT 9:6 But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -- he then said to the paralytic -- "Rise, take up your bed and go home."

Eternal forgiveness authority wasn't HIS' until after His obedience unto death AND resurrection.

PHI 2:8 And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name/AUTHORITY which is above every name/AUTHORITY,

Including the name/AUTHORITY over "the law of sin and death". Praise be to Jesus our SAVIOR and our LORD.

Is Paul trying to deceive us here ...
or is it true that some really do draw back (fall away from the faith)
with the result that they go to hell?

I'm sorry but I'm reading BC again and not BIBLE. "they go to Hell"??? Hell isn't mentioned anywhere in the whole book of Hebrews. And 'as for the red' please instruct me as to your knowledge concerning the 'context' here as being "IN THE FAITH" versus being "OF THE FAITH". And then show me which one "IN/OF" determines your eternal OSAS relationship IN GOD with your spirit, versus which one determines your temporal fellowship WITH GOD and the saving of your soul. Do that scripturally and I will be impressed BC. If you can't, then "ask and you will receive" because I can and will. But answering your 'one verse' requires more.

Paul rates 5 stars for his continual edifications, exhortations, encouragements, etc.
(mixed amongst which are his dire warnings of losing salvation).

As I keep sharing...the soul can backslide and you can "suffer loss even though you will still be saved yet though as by the purgative fire" of "our God who is a consuming fire.

There are several spiritual Truths that are "somewhat hidden" in the NT,
the reasons for which might just be discernable.

In quoting "plain scripture" as I have, I notice that even then "discernable" is a precious commodity to be sought for by many/most.

 

[JLB777]

that is what I ask you! You are the one that says that one who is born again can become un-born again

Please, brother, stop making up false statements about what I post.


...all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

(Words of Christ in red)


This is not a game, as God’s word is not something to play childish games with.


There is no such phrase in the Bible as “un-born again”.


The biblical word for what we are discussing is “lost”.


Do the lost need salvation?



JLB