Other Sheep

SonOfZion said:

Gomer = Complete
Ashkanaz ("a man as sprinkled: fire as scattered")
Ripath ("spoken")
Togarmah ("thou wilt break her")
So why do you want to be called Gomer? Gomer.
His people are not gomerians
They are Israel

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It's highly unlikely that I'll still be alive when Gog/Magog happens.
Or that a female middle-easterner named Gomer is related to Japhethites. It is interesting that you could find definitions for Gomer's children, though. Sources, please?... ancient history is a hobby of mine. Gomer is in the concordance, but not his children. Jubainville says the Illyrians and Thracians and Ligurians are the first Indo-European people... I believe these people to be Gomerians... and Jubainville says the Cimmerians are a Thracian people, as are the Ligurians who peopled southern Britain. I'm still wondering where Javan really went, though.

I'm OK with waiting for my new name (see below). That verse of Isaiah 44... Isaiah 43 is one of my favorites.

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Rev.2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth.

SonOfZion said:

as to the Gospel

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John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.

Matthew 24:14 And this Gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

BABerean2 said:

ministry of death engraved on stones

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Matthew 5:18-19 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled.

Have Heaven and Earth passed away? No! Then it isn't fulfilled yet. The Whole Law includes the penalty phase... which will not be fulfilled until the Vials of Wrath are poured out.

Try though you might, you can't get past the penalty phase, which is still in effect. Moses wasn't kidding... and Jesus said nothing about the penalty part of the Law going away... either. In fact, He tells you that the plagues with which Moses threatened Law-breakers are exactly what's in those vials.

OTHER SHEEP

Revelation 3:7-8 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith He that is holy, He that is true, He that hath the key of David, He that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth; I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept My word, and hast not denied My name."

"I the LORD have called Thee in righteousness, and will hold Thine hand, and will keep Thee, and give Thee for a Covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, [and] them that sit in darkness out of the prison house."

Philadelphia, the church of Brotherly Love, has kept the word of Jesus, and has never denied the authority of His name/position. This brotherly love is the first love that Ephesus was losing. Smyrna had that love back, to such a degree that they were poor because they had given all they had to their ever-expanding fellowship of brothers, and so they were rich in the eyes of Heaven; I believe this to be the first persecuted church. The things that apply to Smyrna will apply to last-church Philadelphia, IMHO; I say last-church because, as of today, I don't think that Laodicea will be part of the Bride; I think they will be the multitude upon the sea of glass, singing the song of Moses.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

TribulationSigns said:

You don't get it because you are blind with physical nation of Israel which is not where God talked about.

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Nonsense.

Other Sheep of the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel is a physical reality. You cannot make the Kingdom Gospel of Jesus into a metaphor, or spiritualize away the straightforward, common sense language that Jesus spoke. The faith of a child will allow you to take HIS yoke upon you and learn from HIM, and love Him and keep His Commandments.

Everything that's ever said to the contrary is smoke and mirrors that never came from God.

Douggg said:

That generation died off 2000 years ago, just like that first generation coming out of Egypt did not enter the promised land, but another generation did.

Why are you going to Matthew, to address what it says in Ezekiel 38/39 who Gog/Magog attacks? It doesn't say church. It is specific to the land of Israel. To the people brought at of the nations. And God calls "my people of Israel".

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The only people who hear the voice of Jesus and do what Jesus says are "my people of Israel." Not spiritual Israel, real literal genetic Israel. Jesus sent His Disciple-Apostles to Israel and Israel alone. Jesus calls us His sheep, because we hear Him. Just as Noah heard God, and just as Abraham heard God. God says that no other nation ever heard Him but that of Abraham. He tells us that this is the nation He chose... because they heard Him. What else can it mean but that every person who has ears to hear and actually becomes a doer of the word, is quite literally Israel? Not grafted in, but natural-born.

And since every nation in the world has been mixed with the seed of Israel, the sheep who hear Jesus' voice are all tribes and races and nations and colors and shapes and sizes. It's like... the way to know that we ARE Israel is because we DO hear Jesus, and we hear NObody else. John 10 tells us in very specific terms, the nature of the sheep and the shepherd. If we truly match that definition, mind and soul, we have some of the blood of Abraham running through our veins. And in this way, all of the nations are reconciled to God.

Douggg said:

After the resurrection and before Acts, Jesus appeared to the disciples...

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John 20:30-31 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book: But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through His name.

TribulationSigns said:

Okay, I get it. Nonsense or foolish to you because you have a natural mind.

Okay, have fun playing with your natural theory of literal Jews, physical tribes, physical sheep representing "ethnic Jews", or Jewish nation.

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Jesus came for the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and He sent His Disciple-Apostles to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel. Jesus was speaking to natural Israel, so I'm in good company. No Judah/Benjamin involved.

Just so you know, all of my threads are addressed to literal Israel. So you won't have to waste any more of your time with any of them, TribulationSigns
... you're welcome.

keras said:

This is the best article I've seen, that explains the vexing question of who are the real Israel.
But whether we Israelites are natural of grafted in, or both, is inconsequential to us, I leave that to God and His purposes.
We born again Christians are His sheep and we are the ones who hear His voice. Someday soon, the Lord will gather us into His pasture, the holy Land. Ezekiel 34:11-16, Jeremiah 23:3-4, John 10:14-16, John 10:26-30

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I should be grateful for the complement, and let it go at that, but

Jesus doesn't say one single word about grafted in. I'm sorry, keras, but that matters very much. Jesus says that His words are eternal life. Anything that takes away from His words changes the message in ways we cannot fully comprehend. The Book of Revelation has a warning attached, as does the Law of Moses. IMHO, the same thing applies to the Gospel of the Kingdom. And anything that adds to what Jesus says is commentary, not equal to the words of eternal life itself.

If more words were needed, Jesus would have said them. What I think about what Jesus says or does is only commentary, because I didn't walk with Jesus for over 3 years. When John gives commentary on what Jesus says, he's not guessing, based upon a handful of pages of the literal events of Jesus' life. He's not basing anything upon hearsay from people who may never even have believed Jesus. John was there, John stayed awake when Peter slept during Jesus' prayer to the Father. And only John was given the Revelation that ties together all of the prophecies from all of the prophets, and Jesus tells you through John what absolutely IS.

Douggg said:

John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

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Agreed. I wonder why that seems like the last chapter.

BABerean2 said:

little word "till"

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(yawn)

Kick the mud from your boots, BABerean2. This house of mine isn't accepting anything you're selling. Go bang on someone else's door.

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A woman who was childless was standing next to a group of women who were passing around their baby's pictures. Not wanting to be left out, the woman pulls from her purse the brochure that came with the new recycling bin and trash can her waste disposal company delivered that morning. The other women suddenly remembered that break-time was over and left without a word.

Not that I mind when people talk about recycling, but I don't think the whole of eschatology should be given over to trash can discussions.

Jesus was speaking about His Other Sheep... and since He came only unto the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, those sheep weren't Japhethites or Hamites. Therefore, the ad nauseam discussions about anti-Law are equal to the childless woman's photos of trash cans.

BABerean2 said:

trash.
.

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Chapter 22

22:1 And the children of Israel departed, and encamped on the west of Moab by Jordan toward Jericho. 2 And when Balac son of Sepphor saw all that Israel did to the Amorite, 3 then Moab feared the people exceedingly because they were many; and Moab was grieved before the face of the children of Israel. 4 And Moab said to the elders of Madiam, Now shall this assembly lick up all that are round about us, as a calf would lick up the green herbs of the field:--and Balac son of Sepphor was king of Moab at that time. 5 And he sent ambassadors to Balaam the son of Beor, to Phathura, which is on a river of the land of the sons of his people, to call him, saying, Behold, a people is come out of Egypt, and behold it has covered the face of the earth, and it has encamped close to me. 6 And now come, curse me this people, for it is stronger than we; if we may be able to smite some of them, and I will cast them out of the land: for I know that whomsoever thou dost bless, they are blessed, and whomsoever thou dost curse, they are cursed. 7 And the elders of Moab went, and the elders of Madiam, and their divining instruments were in their hands; and they came to Balaam, and spoke to him the words of Balac. 8 And he said to them, Tarry here the night, and I will answer you the things which the Lord shall say to me; and the princes of Moab stayed with Balaam.
9 And God came to Balaam, and said to him, Who are these men with thee? 10 And Balaam said to God, Balac son of Sepphor, king of Moab, sent them to me, saying, 11 Behold, a people has come forth out of Egypt, and has covered the face of the land, and it has encamped near to me; and now come, curse it for me, if indeed I shall be able to smite it, and cast it out of the land. 12 And God said to Balaam, Thou shalt not go with them, neither shalt thou curse the people; for they are blessed. 13 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and said to the princes of Balac, Depart quickly to your lord; God does not permit me to go with you. 14 And the princes of Moab rose, and came to Balac, and said, Balaam will not come with us.
15 And Balac yet again sent more princes and more honourable than they. 16 And they came to Balaam, and they say to him, Thus says Balac the son of Sepphor: I beseech thee, delay not to come to me. 17 For I will greatly honour thee, and will do for thee whatsoever thou shalt say; come then, curse me this people. 18 And Balaam answered and said to the princes of Balac, If Balac would give me his house full of silver and gold, I shall not be able to go beyond the word of the Lord God, to make it little or great in my mind. 19 And now do ye also tarry here this night, and I shall know what the Lord will yet say to me. 20 And God came to Balaam by night, and said to him, If these men are come to call thee, rise and follow them; nevertheless the word which I shall speak to thee, it shalt thou do.
21 And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab. 22 And God was very angry because he went; and the angel of the Lord rose up to withstand him. Now he had mounted his ass, and his two servants were with him. 23 And when the ass saw the angel of God standing opposite in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand, then the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field; and Balaam smote the ass with his staff to direct her in the way.
24 And the angel of the Lord stood in the avenues of the vines, a fence being on this side and a fence on that. 25 And when the ass saw the angel of God, she thrust herself against the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall, and he smote her again.
26 And the angel of the Lord went farther, and came and stood in a narrow place where it was impossible to turn to the right or the left. 27 And when the ass saw the angel of God, she lay down under Balaam; and Balaam was angry, and struck the ass with his staff. 28 And God opened the mouth of the ass, and she says to Balaam, What have I done to thee, that thou hast smitten me this third time? 29 And Balaam said to the ass, Because thou hast mocked me; and if I had had a sword in my hand, I would now have killed thee. 30 And the ass says to Balaam, Am not I thine ass on which thou hast ridden since thy youth till this day? did I ever do thus to thee, utterly disregarding thee? and he said, No. 31 And God opened the eyes of Balaam, and he sees the angel of the Lord withstanding him in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand, and he stooped down and worshipped on his face. 32 And the angel of God said to him, Why hast thou smitten thine ass this third time? and, behold, I came out to withstand thee, for thy way was not seemly before me; and when the ass saw me, she turned away from me this third time. 33 And if she had not turned out of the way, surely now, I should have slain thee, and should have saved her alive. 34 And Balaam said to the angel of the Lord, I have sinned, for I did not know that thou wert standing opposite in the way to meet me; and now if it shall not be pleasing to thee for me to go on, I will return. 35 And the angel of the Lord said to Balaam, Go with the men: nevertheless the word which I shall speak to thee, that thou shalt take heed to speak. And Balaam went with the princes of Balac.
36 And when Balac heard that Balaam was come, he went out to meet him, to a city of Moab, which is on the borders of Arnon, which is on the extreme part of the borders. 37 And Balac said to Balaam, Did I not send to thee to call thee? why hast thou not come to me? shall I not indeed be able to honour thee? 38 And Balaam said to Balac, Behold, I am now come to thee: shall I be able to say anything? the word which God shall put into my mouth, that I shall speak. 39 And Balaam went with Balac, and they came to the cities of streets. 40 And Balac offered sheep and calves, and sent to Balaam and to his princes who were with him. 41 And it was morning; and Balac took Balaam, and brought him up to the pillar of Baal, and shewed him thence a part of the people.

Chapter 23

23:1 And Balaam said to Balac, Build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven calves, and seven rams. 2 And Balac did as Balaam told him; and he offered up a calf and a ram on every altar. 3 And Balaam said to Balac, Stand by thy sacrifice, and I will go and see if God will appear to me and meet me, and the word which he shall shew me, I will report to thee. And Balac stood by his sacrifice. 4 And Balaam went to enquire of God; and he went straight forward, and God appeared to Balaam; and Balaam said to him, I have prepared the seven altars, and have offered a calf and a ram on every altar. 5 And God put a word into the mouth of Balaam, and said, thou shalt return to Balac, and thus shalt thou speak. 6 And he returned to him, and moreover he stood over his whole-burnt-offerings, and all the princes of Moab with him; and the Spirit of God came upon him. 7 And he took up his parable, and said, Balac king of Moab sent for me out of Mesopotamia, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and Come, call for a curse for me upon Israel. 8 How can I curse whom the Lord curses not? or how can I devote whom God devotes not? 9 For from the top of the mountains I shall see him, and from the hills I shall observe him: behold, the people shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations. 10 Who has exactly calculated the seed of Jacob, and who shall number the families of Israel? let my soul die with the souls of the righteous, and let my seed be as their seed.
11 And Balac said to Balaam, What hast thou done to me? I called thee to curse my enemies, and behold thou hast greatly blessed them. 12 And Balaam said to Balac, Whatsoever the Lord shall put into my mouth, shall I not take heed to speak this? 13 And Balac said to him, Come yet with me to another place where thou shalt not see the people, but only thou shalt see a part of them, and shalt not see them all; and curse me them from thence.
14 And he took him to a high place of the field to the top of the quarried rock, and he built there seven altars, and offered a calf and a ram on every altar. 15 And Balaam said to Balac, Stand by thy sacrifice, and I will go to enquire of God. 16 And God met Balaam, and put a word into his mouth, and said, return to Balac, and thus shalt thou speak. 17 And he returned to him: and he also was standing by his whole-burnt-sacrifice, and all the princes of Moab with him; and Balac said to him, What has the Lord spoken? 18 And he took up his parable, and said, rise up, Balac, and hear; hearken as a witness, thou son of Sepphor. 19 God is not as man to waver, nor as the son of man to be threatened; shall he say and not perform? shall he speak and not keep to his word? 20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: I will bless, and not turn back. 21 There shall not be trouble in Jacob, neither shall sorrow be seen in Israel: the Lord his God is with him, the glories of rulers are in him. 22 It was God who brought him out of Egypt; he has as it were the glory of a unicorn. 23 For there is no divination in Jacob, nor enchantment in Israel; in season it shall be told to Jacob and Israel what God shall perform. 24 Behold, the people shall rise up as a lion's whelp, and shall exalt himself as a lion; he shall not lie down till he have eaten the prey, and he shall drink the blood of the slain.
25 And Balac said to Balaam, Neither curse the people at all for me, nor bless them at all. 26 And Balaam answered and said to Balac, Spoke I not to thee, saying, Whatsoever thing God shall speak to me, that will I do? 27 And Balac said to Balaam, Come and I will remove thee to another place, if it shall please God, and curse me them from thence. 28 And Balac took Balaam to the top of Phogor, which extends to the wilderness. 29 And Balaam said to Balac, build me here seven altars, and prepare me here seven calves, and seven rams. 30 And Balac did as Balaam told him, and offered a calf and a ram on every altar.

Chapter 24

24:1 And when Balaam saw that it pleased God to bless Israel, he did not go according to his custom to meet the omens, but turned his face toward the wilderness. 2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and sees Israel encamped by their tribes; and the Spirit of God came upon him. 3 And he took up his parable and said, Balaam son of Beor says, the man who sees truly says, 4 he says who hears the oracle of the Mighty One, who saw a vision of God in sleep; his eyes were opened: 5 How goodly are thy habitations, Jacob, and thy tents, Israel! 6 as shady groves, and as gardens by a river, and as tents which God pitched, and as cedars by the waters. 7 There shall come a man out of his seed, and he shall rule over many nations; and the kingdom of Gog shall be exalted, and his kingdom shall be increased. 8 God led him out of Egypt; he has as it were the glory of a unicorn: he shall consume the nations of his enemies, and he shall drain their marrow, and with his darts he shall shoot through the enemy. 9 He lay down, he rested as a lion, and as a young lion; who shall stir him up? they that bless thee are blessed, and they that curse thee are cursed.
10 And Balac was angry with Balaam, and clapped his hands together; and Balac said to Balaam, I called thee to curse my enemy, and behold thou hast decidedly blessed him this third time. 11 Now therefore flee to thy place: I said, I will honour thee, but now the Lord has deprived thee of glory. 12 And Balaam said to Balac, Did I not speak to thy messengers also whom thou sentest to me, saying, 13 If Balac should give me his house full of silver and gold, I shall not be able to transgress the word of the Lord to make it good or bad by myself; whatsoever things God shall say, them will I speak. 14 And now, behold, I return to my place; come, I will advise thee of what this people shall do to thy people in the last days.
15 And he took up his parable and said,
Balaam the son of Beor says, the man who sees truly says, 16 hearing the oracles of God, receiving knowledge from the Most High, and having seen a vision of God in sleep; his eyes were opened. 17 I will point to him, but not now; I bless him, but he draws not near: a star shall rise out of Jacob, a man shall spring out of Israel; and shall crush the princes of Moab, and shall spoil all the sons of Seth. 18 And Edom shall be an inheritance, and Esau his enemy shall be an inheritance of Israel, and Israel wrought valiantly. 19 And one shall arise out of Jacob, and destroy out of the city him that escapes. 20 And having seen Amalec, he took up his parable and said, Amalec is the first of the nations; yet his seed shall perish. 21 And having seen the Kenite, he took up his parable and said, thy dwelling-place is strong; yet though thou shouldest put thy nest in a rock, 22 and though Beor should have a skillfully contrived hiding-place, the Assyrians shall carry thee away captive. 23 And he looked upon Og, and took up his parable and said, Oh, oh, who shall live, when God shall do these things? 24 And one shall come forth from the hands of the Citians, and shall afflict Assur, and shall afflict the Hebrews, and they shall perish together. 25 And Balaam rose up and departed and returned to his place, and Balac went to his own home.

SonOfZion said:

The moral of the story is that, If Eternal life and the promise land are the result of keeping the Law, then it is no longer a Promise, and would not be attainable.

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The Promise is sure because God will always have His remnant. Jesus tells us that the law will not be fulfilled until Heaven and Earth pass away. Straight up, without guile. It's not hard language.