Other protestant thoughts on Baptism

[theseed]

A faith that produces no works is no true faith, for faith is not only belief but also love and trust in God, and we cannot truly love Him and continue to purposely grieve Him at the same time.

I agree with this statement, but I think another interpretation of James might be inorder. It appears that "justified" by works does not mean that we are justified for salvatoin, but justified for our claims of faith. Hence, "justified" means "vindicated" or "validated". So yes we have faith and works together, but the combination does not bring salvation.

 

[theseed]

I have read the Large Catechism, and it is where I got the verse of Titus 3.5 to validate my position on baptism!

 

[Lotar]

I have read the Large Catechism, and it is where I got the verse of Titus 3.5 to validate my position on baptism!

Because you erroneously assume that they are two seperate events.

 

[theseed]

Because you erroneously assume that they are two seperate events.

Or maybe you erronously assume that they are not

 

[JVAC]

JVAC, why do you not consider the Anabaptist protestants? What did they not protest that Lutherans and Calvinist did? Anabaptist also poped up the same time as Martin Luther.

And why do you and Lotar talk so much about Anabaptist as if they were your mortal enemy? Even though the Anabaptist are no longer around, but Baptists, Quakers, Amish, and Minnonites. But yet, you assume that these groups are just like the Anabaptist, when that is not a for gone conclusion?

Technically they are not protestant but I am mostly opposed to them because they are so radical. Lutherans were about reform, but Anabaptists were about radical reform, to the point of seperation from the Church and condemnation of the Church (the Lutheran Church never seperated from the Romish Church). Lutherans, retained everything that was Christian from the Romish Church, yet, the Anabaptists wouldn't keep anything that looked Romish. This led to heresies, namely "re-baptism" thier name-sake. It is evident in our confessions, that we don't aprove of such heresies, ex: "Even taken by itself, this point can sufficiently strengthen good and godly minds against the godless and fanatical opinions of the Anabaptists." (Article IX: Apology of the Augsburg Confession: Book of Concord). The label Anabaptist is a title used to label them and to point them out to the Church; ex: "Nestorian", "Gnostic", "Arian".

Mennonites are anabaptists, in the historical meaning of the word, and Anabaptism is a bractice which is a widespread pandemic in the Church today.

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On a completely different subject, Reformationist, I looked up those passages and they don't apply to Baptism because Baptism isn't a human work, but a work of God, infinately good and merciful.

-James

 

[Jamie70]

Can I just say something..... well, at least I've proved my point. The whole thread started with the fact that the person said that baptism is not required to be saved. It seems 'quite a lot' of protestants share the same view. Accept it...you were wrong!! Don't worry I wont tell everyone who it was!

 

[JVAC]

well, at least I've proved my point.

Wow, I don't ever think I have seen that on a thread yet, a thread that accomplished the OP, usually they get off topic, deleted or fade into obscurity. Bravo!

-James

 

[theseed]

Lutheran's see anabaptist as thier arch rivals, while the "anabaptist" hardly know who Lutherans are, and let alone Martinus Luther.

 

[JVAC]

Lutheran's see anabaptist as thier arch rivals, while the "anabaptist" hardly know who Lutherans are, and let alone Martinus Luther.

No we don't see them as "arch-rivals", we are not competeing against them. They are just heretics. It is not my fault they don't know who Martin Luther is, I myself wouldn't know what an Anabaptist was if I didn't look it up. The least they could do is pay attention to thier own history.

-James

 

[theseed]

No we don't see them as "arch-rivals", we are not competeing against them. They are just heretics. It is not my fault they don't know who Martin Luther is, I myself wouldn't know what an Anabaptist was if I didn't look it up. The least they could do is pay attention to thier own history.

-James

I just find it odd that so many Lutherans seem obsessed with "anabaptist" while so many "anabaptist" are not obsessed with what other denominations think.

 

[JVAC]

I just find it odd that so many Lutherans seem obsessed with "anabaptist" while so many "anabaptist" are not obsessed with what other denominations think.

We aren't obssesed, but it seems that when ever these Sacramental threads come up it is always the Lutheran view verses the Anabaptist view. The only reason why most "anabaptists" don't talk about Lutherans, is because they are ignorant of our beliefs, and assume that the only Sacramental Church is the Romish one.

-James

 

[theseed]

We aren't obssesed, but it seems that when ever these Sacramental threads come up it is always the Lutheran view verses the Anabaptist view. The only reason why most "anabaptists" don't talk about Lutherans, is because they are ignorant of our beliefs, and assume that the only Sacramental Church is the Romish one.

-James

I don't see "anabaptist' talking about Catholics that much either.

 

[Lotar]

I just find it odd that so many Lutherans seem obsessed with "anabaptist" while so many "anabaptist" are not obsessed with what other denominations think.

You seem quite content with teaching against the papists.

Well, we see Anabaptists to be in as much error as the papists, so it is only natural that we speak out against your heredox doctrines as often was we do against their's.

 

[theseed]

]You seem quite content with teaching against the papists.

Well, we see Anabaptists to be in as much error as the papists, so it is only natural that we speak out against your heredox doctrines as often was we do against their's

How often do I speak against the Papist? Rarely if ever directly. And I don't know many Baptist who do. Again, Lutherans seem unusually obsessed with other denominiaitons.

Lumping them together and giving them a label, as if they were homogenous; that would be like me speaking about those "sacramentalists" saying, "there all the same"

 

[Lotar]

How often do I speak against the Papist? Rarely if ever directly. And I don't know many Baptist who do. Again, Lutherans seem unusually obsessed with other denominiaitons.

Whatever. When the IDD was open you were just as active there as I was.

Since when was it Christian to deem convictions a vice. We believe that our doctrine is correct, and that it is our responsibility to show others there error.

Lumping them together and giving them a label, as if they were homogenous; that would be like me speaking about those "sacramentalists" saying, "there all the same"

There are a large number of heretical beliefs that are unique to the Anabaptists, so there is no need to distinguish when addressing these.

 

[Epiphany]

To Life Immortal

Wow, this is a fascinating subject! I've learned a lot about how people view baptism and the the giving of God's grace. This is why I join these message boards; they give you something to think about.

Someone earlier started that they didn't know the Orthodox position on baptism. We baptise infants and adults. I got baptised when I decided to join the church, then I left for another religion (Paganism). Last year, I returned to Christianity, I didn't get re-baptised, even though I think maybe I should. I went to Confession and was able to take the Sacraments again.

I got baptised so I could receive the sacraments and also to show I wanted to be a Christian. I believe you should be baptised if you're a Christian. Baptism is a sacrament, like eucharist and chrismation and the others. You are saved by faith in Lord Jesus and because you have faith in Lord Jesus, you will want to receive the sacraments and want to do good things like help people and the like.

Have a happy and holy Holy Week

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~