Other protestant thoughts on Baptism

[Jamie70]

I was just having a little debate with someone regarding the Anglican faith and the belief that one should be baptised in order for God to save us. They replied by saying that most protestants don't believe that. Lets have a few comments from the various denominations. Let me quote that they said 'most protestants do not believe that.

This was their comment to me................

"Here's a comment. I understand that as an Anglican you believe that we must be baptized in order for God to save us. As wonderful as you think that interpretation of Scripture is, most Protestants do not believe that. Did you have anymore questions about Protestant beliefs or are we at the point where you enlighten us to the Anglican beliefs?"

 

[Lotar]

I believe the Creed says, "one baptism for the remission of sins."

Lutherans pretty much agree with Anglicans on this issue. Together we make up about a third of Protestantism, so it's not a vast majority.

 

[JVAC]

It is funny they say that, because Lutherans and Anglicans are mostly in agreement, and together Lutherans and Anglicans make up the majority of the P/R/E. So I would say the uncommon view is salvation outside baptism [even though everyone agrees that it isn't 'absolutely' necessary].

Again we neglect to think how big the Anglican and Lutheran Communions really are.

-James

 

[FreeinChrist]

I was just having a little debate with someone regarding the Anglican faith and the belief that one should be baptised in order for God to save us. They replied by saying that most protestants don't believe that. Lets have a few comments from the various denominations. Let me quote that they said 'most protestants do not believe that.

This was their comment to me................

"Here's a comment. I understand that as an Anglican you believe that we must be baptized in order for God to save us. As wonderful as you think that interpretation of Scripture is, most Protestants do not believe that. Did you have anymore questions about Protestant beliefs or are we at the point where you enlighten us to the Anglican beliefs?"

I believe water baptism is an act of obedience, but it is not the act that saves. It is faith that saves us. Water does not remove sin.

Water baptism is an identification with Christ, a public profession of faith. Paul wrote how those that came out of Egypt were 'baptised unto Moses' - meaning identified with Moses. No water baptism was involved.

So when we are 'baptised unto the remission of sin', it means our faith in Christ - our identification with Christ as His follower - is what saves us.

I like how Baptists describe it - an outward display of an inward change.

 

[Reformationist]

It is funny they say that, because Lutherans and Anglicans are mostly in agreement, and together Lutherans and Anglicans make up the majority of the P/R/E. So I would say the uncommon view is salvation outside baptism [even though everyone agrees that it isn't 'absolutely' necessary].

The uncommon Protestant view or the uncommon view of the members of the P/R/E?

Again we neglect to think how big the Anglican and Lutheran Communions really are.

For me it was not an issue of neglect. To be honest, I was not even aware that Anglicans were Protestants, at least in the same sense as say Baptists or Presbyterians or Lutherans. That was my mistake, for which I have apologized.

Jamie70, just for the purposes of your survey, I'll offer my vote as against the idea that baptism is necessary for God to save us. I'm sure you already knew that though.

Lutherans pretty much agree with Anglicans on this issue.

Lutherans believe that baptism is necessary for salvation? Is that really what the Lutheran church teaches? So baptism is a condition for salvation? Hmmph. I never knew that Lutherans believed that.

God bless

 

[LynneClomina]

an outward demonstration of an inward revelation.

just another way of putting it. kinda poetic, dontya think????

 

[ByzantineDixie]

Lutherans believe that baptism is necessary for salvation? Is that really what the Lutheran church teaches? So baptism is a condition for salvation? Hmmph. I never knew that Lutherans believed that.

God bless

Actually...that is a "qualified" necessary. Lutherans do not believe that baptism is absolutely necessary.

While Baptism is no adiaphoron, but a divine institution and ordinance, we must not regard it as absolutely necessary in the sense that no one can obtain forgiveness of sins and be saved who has not received this Sacrament. “Necessitas baptismi non est absoluta.” The reason for this is that already the preaching of the Gospel offers divine grace with forgiveness of sins, life, and salvation so completely and perfectly that any one who believes its promises is in possession of all spiritual blessings.
Mueller, John Theodore, Christian Dogmatics (Mueller), (St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House) 1999, c1934.

However, it is part of our doctrine that “not the lack, but only the contempt of Baptism damns” (Contemptus sacramenti damnat, non privatio).

Accordingly, Lutherans insist on Baptism.

Peace

Rose

 

[LuxPerpetua]

I believe water baptism is an act of obedience, but it is not the act that saves. It is faith that saves us. Water does not remove sin.

Water baptism is an identification with Christ, a public profession of faith. Paul wrote how those that came out of Egypt were 'baptised unto Moses' - meaning identified with Moses. No water baptism was involved.

So when we are 'baptised unto the remission of sin', it means our faith in Christ - our identification with Christ as His follower - is what saves us.

I like how Baptists describe it - an outward display of an inward change.

Ditto! I think that baptism was given to us by God to be a physical reminder of our covenant with him (like circumcision under the Old Covenant). The real baptism is inward (through faith by the Holy Spirit) and external baptism is an external symbol of this inner grace. I don't think that external baptism is necessary for salvation but it is beneficial to us since we humans are very physical creatures.

 

[jazzbird]

I'm with FreeinChrist and LuxPerpetua. Baptism for the remission of sins refers to the spiritual baptism of which water baptism is a sign. You are identifying with Christ in a public manner through water baptism.

Also, it is commanded by Christ, therefore, as Christians we need to be baptized if we desire to follow Him. This is not to say that we are not saved until baptism, or that we cannot be saved without baptism, but I would question the motives of one who professes Christ but then refuses to be baptized. If we are Christians, we should want to obey His commands.

As for my background, I spent most of my life at a Baptist church until last fall when I got married and began attending a Presb. church (PCA). I'm still dealing with my thoughts on infant baptism that takes place in the Presb. church. I don't believe it is in any way wrong, because they don't believe it saves. It is merely a sign in the way circumcision is a sign, however from my study of scripture I think that believers baptism is supported more strongly in the Bible. Well, I have some time before we have kids to figure all this out.

 

[Colabomb]

Without being controversial....

TECHNICALLY

Anglicans are Protestants.....

BUT

I don't think we quite fit within Protestantism, because of doctrine and the fact that our History is different.

That, and we hold to the Episcopacy.

 

[Colabomb]

Without being controversial....

TECHNICALLY

Anglicans are Protestants.....

BUT

I don't think we quite fit within Protestantism, because of doctrine and the fact that our History is different.

That, and we hold to the Episcopacy.

 

[Yitzchak]

We look backward to what Jesus did for purposes of salvation. Old Testament saints looked forward to what He would do when He came. My conclusion is that whether we look back or look forward or lived concurrent with jesus we all believe His atonemnet is applyed to us. Even so with baptism. Whether baptized as an infant in which case provision was made before I knew it or baptizzed after salvation as an adult we look upon that work of faith and grace as applyed to us.

There are exceptions such as The thief on the cross. But exceptions are no excuse for our neglecting so clear a command. I tend to think baptism does more than just symbolize salvation. But it is not absolutely neccesary for salvation under all circumstances. Otherwise those under circumcision would be in trouble.

 

[JVAC]

The uncommon Protestant view or the uncommon view of the members of the P/R/E?

Anglicans=70million plus; Lutherans=66million plus 136 million members [not to mention the similar views of moravians and even methodists]. There is under 300 million P/R/E's in the world. That gives the Anglo-Lutherans the predominant opinion.

Lutherans believe that baptism is necessary for salvation? Is that really what the Lutheran church teaches? So baptism is a condition for salvation? Hmmph. I never knew that Lutherans believed that.

Which denomination doesn't? We must follow the commands of Jesus, if we are going to pick and choose which ones then we would hardly be confessional Christians. Baptism is necessary for salvation Mark 16:16, yet not 'absolutely necessary' ex: Dismas.

-James

 

[Beauty4Ashes]

All I have to say is that I've been a christian 7 years and moved a lot having to go to various churches and I have not yet been babtised by water as a christian. I believe I will in God's perfect time. I have a wonderfully fuffilling relationship with my God and Savior and I don't doubt my salvation in the least. I have been babtized with the Holy Spirit and I'm definately saved and going to heaven. God does not judge me or condemn me for not yet being babtized. It is simply an outward confession of an inward belief that he already knows I have. I think he wants me to get babtized butwants to use my testimony to reach certain hearts in God's perfect time and also when I am comfortable with the physical aspect of it. God knows my heart. No one can judge that. So I pity people that judge others based on this misinturrpretation of the scriputures. I don't have the slightest doubt in my mind that if I died today before getting babtized, I'd be swept up into the arms of Jesus.

 

[theseed]

I believe the Creed says, "one baptism for the remission of sins."

Lutherans pretty much agree with Anglicans on this issue. Together we make up about a third of Protestantism, so it's not a vast majority.

Yes a Spiritual Baptism

 

[theseed]

Anglicans=70million plus; Lutherans=66million plus 136 million members [not to mention the similar views of moravians and even methodists]. There is under 300 million P/R/E's in the world. That gives the Anglo-Lutherans the predominant opinion.

136 million is less than half 150 million, 45.3 % to be precise, leaving aproximately 54.7% of P/R/E not believing not agreeing with Lutherans.

 

[JVAC]

136 million is less than half 150 million, 45.3 % to be precise, leaving aproximately 54.7% of P/R/E not believing not agreeing with Lutherans.

I said I didn't factor in the Moravians, which hold almost the same view as Lutherans, nor Methodists. I don't have thier numbers. Also the rest of P/R/E is no where near as unified on the subject, unlike the Lutherans/Anglicans who are very unified on the subject. A few non-denom churches believe this and that, other little denoms that I have never heard of believe something else. It is quite easy to see that the Anglo-Lutheran view is the most common.

It is simply an outward confession of an inward belief that he already knows I have

I don't know where in Scripture this is taken from? I do see the more popular conception [the one held by Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans, Lutherans, Moravians, etc.] is much easier seen. We are claimed as children of God and marked with His name. Matt 28:19 people, "Baptize into the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost"

-James

 

[Lotar]

Yes a Spiritual Baptism

The two are not seperate.




JVAC,
Adherents.com says there are nearly 500 million Protestants. So we make up the minority.

 

[theseed]

It is quite easy to see that the Anglo-Lutheran view is the most common.

There is no gray area as you suggest. You believe the sacraments impart grace or you don't. And you have not established how many Morovians there are, you have to come up with at least 4 million people.

 

[JVAC]

Lotar,
Adherents dot com also says there is like seventy to eighty million Lutherans, I tend to doubt its statistics.

-James