Other kids...

[Brandlynn]

My Shadrach is an only child. He is usually pretty good. But the past week, he has been, I don't know what is going on. He is 20 months old, and last week we had to take him to a doctors appointment, and there was this kid in the waiting room that had this toenail curling scream. There was nothing wrong with him other than the fact that he was a spoiled brat. The parents did nothing to control him or to quiet him down. But this went on for like an hour. The whole hour, Shad was shaking like a leaf on a tree and was crying as was other kids in the waiting room. I mean, it was even hurting our ears, the screams were. Thankfully, the brat got called back. But still, a week later, if Shadrach sees a baby, he puckers up, begins to shake, and cries real tears.

What can I do when he does this? I mean, It breaks my heart to see this happen to him. I just don't know what I can do to help him "get over" this fear of other kids. Surely, this is not something that he will have to see a therapist for. I mean, the only thing that he does now is jabber, unless he thinks it is important, and then he will say what he thinks, but, I don't know.

What do all you experienced parents think about this scenario?

 

[Singermom]

The only thing I can think of is to expose him to more babies.

When my daughters were 2-1/2 and almost 1 I was in a horrible car accident. I was rear-ended and pushed into the truck in front of me. Thankfully no one was hurt (It was amazing - clearly God's Hand - that none of the glass from the rear window, which had flown as far as the dashboard, landed on the girls). Police showed up at the scene, names were taken, etc. Unfortunately, after that, any time either of the girls saw a policeman, they would burst into tears and be frightened, remembering the accident. Every chance I could, I would introduce them to any officer I came across (they were all only too happy to help). Now, at 8 and almost 6, they both LOVE the police and talk to them openly.

That explains my answer. Don't push; keep it simple, but exposure is usually the best way to handle this. Now that I think of it, I remember doing a research paper on phobias, and my research mentioned something about "exposure therapy" as well.

That's my $0.02 anyway...

 

[Brandlynn]

The reason he has not been exposed that much to other kids is because of his poor immune system. The doc's have told us not to take him into the nursery at church, and to definately not send him to daycare. he is going to be in the Christmas play, so maybe that will help a little. I hope that does help. We keep him out of the stores, too. So once again, he is not exposed to the brats in the toy department whose screams will wake the dead.

 

[lucypevensie]

Exposure would help, but your reasons for keeping him isolated are understandable. Do YOU react when a "bratty" child starts crying? If so, your son will pick up on this and it will feed his phobia.

I know he's only 20 months, but you can talk to him on his age level about his problem and help him work through some strategies for dealing with fears. If you are going into a store, for example, prepare yourself and him in advance. "We're going to the mall today, and what will we do if we hear a child crying? Should we cry too, or should we walk past? I wonder why he is crying. Do you think he hurt himself? Maybe he would like to go home and have a nap. Perhaps he really wants that toy but Mom said no. oh dear! What do you think?" Help him deal with a reality of life - kids cry for many reasons, and not always because they are just being brats.

 

[Brandlynn]

Most of the time, when you are in walmart, and an adult tells a kid, "No", they are being brats. Trust me, I used to work there.

 

[lucypevensie]

Probably. But still, not always.

But no matter who's to blame, the kid or the parent, those of us with the perfect kids can teach our kids how to cope with other children who make them uncomfortable with undesirable behavior. And I think it begins with how WE react to those kids. True, that kid screaming for an hour in the doctor's waiting room would frustrate anyone, and I have no idea how I'd have dealt with that either. Yikes. I don't know how you react to misbehaving kids. All I know is that kids are sooo quick to pick up on the reactions of others, especially mom and dad. We have to constantly be thinking calmly and assertively. "Oh my, that little girl is really upset, isn't she? Should we get these cheerios or those corn flakes?"

 

[JCFantasy23]

Because of his age I'm sure it will pass, probably in a few weeks. When I was young I became terrified of dogs being outside for some reason. My mother says I would start screaming hysterically if I had to go outside unless someone was holding me because of dogs. She has no idea why, maybe a movie or something I saw. She said it lasted about a month.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

I think changing your reaction would go a long way in how he responds to situation like that.

Also, it REALLY irritates me when I see people calling children names. It makes me feel bad for their children. And just because you saw kids acting out at walmart doesn't mean you are an expert on what makes a child "bratty."

 

[Lena75]

I agree. Your reaction to a certain behaviour your child will sense it. 20 month old children are usually very sensitive to emotions and behaviours because they are still growing and learning. The best thing YOU can do is to stay calm and try to divert the child's attention no matter how much screaming is going on.

I say no to my kids in Walmart, but that doesn't mean they're being bratty. An answer is still and answer. I'd be wary of a parent who never ever said no to their kid.

 

[heart of peace]

I agree with lucy's comments. Hope you find your way in handling these sorts of awkward situations, brandlynn.

 

[Brandlynn]

I think changing your reaction would go a long way in how he responds to situation like that.

Also, it REALLY irritates me when I see people calling children names. It makes me feel bad for their children. And just because you saw kids acting out at walmart doesn't mean you are an expert on what makes a child "bratty."

You know what iritates me? People who have never worked in walmart and have never had to put up with an hour in the docs office with a screaming kid, and then that adult denies reality that kids that are not kept under control are bratty. THAT is what irritates me. I mean, really. It qualifies as a brat when a parent says no to a kid in the toy department and the kid is still screaming his or her lungs out by the time that they are in garden center.
Sometimes my little angel gets mad at me when I have to take something away, but, two hours,45 minutes, or even 10 minutes later, he has gotten over it. Usually by the time that we have gotten off that aisle he has gone back to being the little angel that he is for a fact. It's funny that I can control my 20 month old, but parents cant control their 4 year olds. So it is either that our kids are superior or our parenting is superior. One of the two or a combonation of both.
My grandma had 8 kids. When they went to church or to the doctor, they sat and played quietly or they went to sleep under the pew or in the chair. There was no running of the isles. There was no screaming temper tantrums. If there was, it only took one trip outside and a green hickory switch to put an end to the mad fit.

So, yes, there is a very good possibility that Shad was just scared to death by a little brat that the parents had no desire to control. You didn't see my Shadrach, Elijah, Isaiah, Shaquan, or that other little girl in the corner doing anything but playing, coloring or drawing QUIETLY. So, I am not saying that we are the only good parents or that Shadrach is the only good kid. Other parents can do it. And little Elijah was autistic. Shaquan had a tube going into his belly to feed him. The other little girl in the corner had a treach(tube in her throat because she has problems breathing alone) The three of them had every excuse in the world to be screaming to the top of their lungs, but they werent. They were being good. There was nothing wrong with that other kid that was screaming besides the fact that he was just spoiled. That is all there is to it. There is no excuse, unless they do have a disability or are sick to be screaming. None at all. Simple as 1+1.

Of course if parents don't control the kids, that is not just the kids fault. It is mostly the parents. Maybe the tree huggers have a point. Don't cut down all the trees. Otherwise where will the green hickory switch come from to straiten out these little attitudes that every kid has at some point. Maybe if more hickory switches were used, the prisons may not be as full as what they are. Profound revelation

 

[Lena75]

Um, you haven't officially hit "the terrible twos" yet with your kid. Your time will come. Trust me. You will probably "lose control" at one time or another so it's really not fair to judge/criticize other peoples' parenting skills. Especially people you don't know.

 

[Beautiful Fireball]

You know what iritates me? People who have never worked in walmart and have never had to put up with an hour in the docs office with a screaming kid, and then that adult denies reality that kids that are not kept under control are bratty. THAT is what irritates me. I mean, really. It qualifies as a brat when a parent says no to a kid in the toy department and the kid is still screaming his or her lungs out by the time that they are in garden center.
Sometimes my little angel gets mad at me when I have to take something away, but, two hours,45 minutes, or even 10 minutes later, he has gotten over it. Usually by the time that we have gotten off that aisle he has gone back to being the little angel that he is for a fact. It's funny that I can control my 20 month old, but parents cant control their 4 year olds. So it is either that our kids are superior or our parenting is superior. One of the two or a combonation of both.
My grandma had 8 kids. When they went to church or to the doctor, they sat and played quietly or they went to sleep under the pew or in the chair. There was no running of the isles. There was no screaming temper tantrums. If there was, it only took one trip outside and a green hickory switch to put an end to the mad fit.

So, yes, there is a very good possibility that Shad was just scared to death by a little brat that the parents had no desire to control. You didn't see my Shadrach, Elijah, Isaiah, Shaquan, or that other little girl in the corner doing anything but playing, coloring or drawing QUIETLY. So, I am not saying that we are the only good parents or that Shadrach is the only good kid. Other parents can do it. And little Elijah was autistic. Shaquan had a tube going into his belly to feed him. The other little girl in the corner had a treach(tube in her throat because she has problems breathing alone) The three of them had every excuse in the world to be screaming to the top of their lungs, but they werent. They were being good. There was nothing wrong with that other kid that was screaming besides the fact that he was just spoiled. That is all there is to it. There is no excuse, unless they do have a disability or are sick to be screaming. None at all. Simple as 1+1.

Of course if parents don't control the kids, that is not just the kids fault. It is mostly the parents. Maybe the tree huggers have a point. Don't cut down all the trees. Otherwise where will the green hickory switch come from to straiten out these little attitudes that every kid has at some point. Maybe if more hickory switches were used, the prisons may not be as full as what they are. Profound revelation

Seriously?

I think I'm going to need to walk away from this thread. Your whole attitude towards children sickens me and the name calling just pushes it over the top.

And just so you know, I actually HAVE worked in a Walmart. In fact all of my jobs have been in the public or child care field so I have been around A LOT of kids and a lot of different personalities, but I don't see how that qualifies me to make the judgement that all kids who don't listen are "brats."

 

[lucypevensie]

Ok. Some kids are brats, some aren't. Throughout all of history this has been the case. In the future this will remain the case. Throughout all of our lives we have to deal with people who are just not nice. My oldest is 13. She still gets to deal with kids who are brats sometimes. Sometimes kids misbehave because of a momentary lapse of self-control and sometimes they misbehave because of some deep-seated pain inside. You know the old "Hurt people hurt people" saying. There is no one magic way to get kids to quit misbehaving and there is no one magic way to help our kids to deal with other kids who misbehave. Each situation will probably require some thought. One thing that does not help though is if we as parents react with disgust and disdain for all unpleasant behavior.

Allow me to share an example from my own kid's life. My daughter is currently dealing with a classmate ("Vickie") who could be considered a brat, she frequently says insulting things and makes mountains out of molehills ("Stop touching my book!" "why are you looking at me!?" kind of stuff), and then complains to everyone in school that no one is nice to her. She does not have friends because she is not nice (this is an understatement!). This can be quite uncomfortable for my DD who shares a math study group with her. What will NOT help my daughter is if I react by saying " Man, she is such a little brat, I hope her parents pull her out and put her in a different school next year!" This would only give DD a holier-than-thou attitude towards Vickie. It would not help her or Vickie. Instead we deal with situations as they come up. DD knows that Vickie deals with a lot of pain from her (short!) past with addiction and abuse and multiple siblings with multiple dads and moms in her family. DH and I talk a lot about how to relate with her - how to diffuse an argument, how to brush off an insult, how to stand tough when it matters. DD has even spoken up and stood up to Vickie. Vickie now consideres DD a friend and she wants to come over to our house and hang out. We've only had her over once and I could sense my Dd's tension. So maybe later if Vickie learns to be even nicer and more trustworthy she can come over again sometime. Meanwhile DD is dealing with her challenge well. But only with guidance from her parents. Because we are older, can see a bigger picture, we can help her deal with the challenging people in her life.

 

[Singermom]

I can give another example on the younger side of the spectrum.

When my youngest was in pre-K, about age 3, there was a little girl in her class "Heaven". Heaven had developmental disabilities, tended to be overly sensitive and cry almost all the time. The teacher told me that my daughter tended to stick to her and help her out as much as she could, even though the other kids would either tease her or avoid her. She did this on her own, probably because she had seen my husband and me react to adults with developmental disabilities.

 

[Brandlynn]

Yeah, that is if, IF they have disabilities. If you will read, other kids were the ones that had disabilities. I believe that an open heart surgery patient, a kid with a feeding tube, an autistic kid, and one with a treach are the ones that would be considered to have a disability. There was nothing wrong with that kid. All the others were little angels.

What sickens me it that nobody around these parts know the meaning of the word discipline. How can you all call yourselves good parents without at one timeor another having a little meeting in the woodshed?

There is no such thing as the terrible twos, by the way. If there is it is because your parenting, your child, or both are terrible. Tell me where the time clock is in the brain that says "OOH! I am two now. I get to start being a bad, bratty, spoiled rotten kid. I can get by with it, too because I'm two, now. Mama and Daddy are not going to punish me because I'm two. Just because I am two means that i can go and do anything I want. Rules no longer apply to me."

You can't tell me because it isn't there. The rules should apply just as much whent they are two as they do when they are 1 and when they are 12. No hitting. No fit throwing unless there is something really wrong. No throwing your toys around. You play quietly in church (In the sanctuary) and in the doctors office as you do when you are here at home. If you don't listen to me, you will go outside and I will give you a reason to cry and throw fits. You will respect me because I am the parent and you will respect others, including other children.

Is this too much to ask? I don't think so. The examples that singer mom and lucy gave were examples of the other kids not having parents to teach them, thus bad parents. Those were lack of parenting. The kids in those instances could not help what was going on. They could not help who their parents were. However, when have you ever seen a well disciplined child need more than one or two warnings to sit down and be quiet, reguardless of the age. Back in the great depression, you did not see things like this. There was no screaming becasue of not buying the kid a toy. If there was, the parent straitened him or her out and there were no more of those crying jags.

Modern day exammple? The Mennonites and the Amish. Plain simple folk. The best doggone parents you will ever meet. When they, and I have seen it on many, many occasions, go into a store of any kind, their kids reguardless of the age would either quietly walk beside them or quietly sit in the basket. If they said anything at all, it was not screaming and "I want, I want, I want" There is a Mennonite couple who I have known since their baby was born. He is six right now. I see them in walmart all the time. Not one time in these six years have I ever seen him in a store screaming like someone is trying to kill him. Not once.

So, can it be done? Yes, it can. But are the majority of parents too lazy to go out to the woodshed and set their tails on fire? Yes.

 

[Singermom]

I slightly disagree with one thing you said: "there's no such thing as 'terrible twos'". While yes, there IS no set clock-time, all children will reach a point where they will test boundaries. It's part of the learning process. They will "test" parents to see how much they can get away with. My younger daughter hit it at 2, right on schedule; my older daughter hit it at 4, which, unfortunately, was the same year! They would push the envelope, see what they could get away with, we would set the boundaries firmly (without any utensils, BTW; a simple bare hand on bare bottom...one thwack...is sufficient), they learned...all was good.

If they don't they are simply automatons.

 

[ChildByGrace]

My ds started pushing boundaries at 18 months and is still doing it now. By your definition I am a bad parent who doesn't discipline my child-very wrong. My son is very strong-willed, very active, likes to have his brain stretched all the time. He acts out at times but I would say with good reason. He gets jealous of the time I spent with my daughter, time I have to spend with her because I am still breast-feeding her at 14 months.
If my son is naughty he gets told off. He is disciples in several different ways depending on what he has done. At the end of the day he was born with sin in him therefore he will not be a perfect little angel and do everything I say first time. I wouldn't want him to be. I want him to have a mind of his own.

You are very blessed to have a child that is not a 'brat' but that doesn't mean that he will always be like that. A 'perfect' toddler can turn into a not-perfect teenager who can be naughty in a much harder way than throwing a tantrum!

 

[Lena75]

Wow. Stereotyping with Amish & Mennonites is not a good idea. At all. There are spoiled Amish AND Mennonites out there. I have seen them, I have them for neighbours and they can be just as nasty as the next kid. They are only human, just like the rest of us. So PLEASE do not set them on a pedestal!

As for "taking them out to the woodshed to set their tails on fire" is not necessarily the best form of "punishment" and can actually be more damaging than anything else to the child.

BTW: I happen to me a Mennonite. Not a plain folk-type, but I've been told by many a stranger how well-behaved my kids are. And no, we haven't spanked in a VERY long time. My autistic teenager is very loud, screams alot sometimes in stores and understands the word no. He doesn't like it, throws a fit, but he still listens. All without having to be spanked. Same with my other 2 "normal" kids. Rarely have we ever had to spank them. Even in their toddler years. Just hasn't been necessary and there are other forms of discipline that work as well.

And "terrible twos" is just a phrase. It's not like, "Oh, it's my 2nd birthday so let's bring on the brattiness!" It varies with each child, but yes, they do and will push YOUR buttons to see how far you will go before you give in to their will. BTDT

 

[Brandlynn]

True. That's why kids were given to us. But it is up to us, the parents to correct them. And just because they are going through that time, you can't let them just go wild just because they are a certain age. That is the time when they need to be taught better. DOn't just let them get by with everything. If they don't respond to the green hickory switch, then do something else. Give a time out. Take them aside and let them know that you are the parent. DOn't keep just walking through walmart smiling like nothing is happening. Take the kid into the bathroom or outside and let them know that this isn't gonna happen. tapping the hand doesn't always work with mine all the time. It don't even effect him. He just looks at me and laughs. So i put him in my lap and I don't let him down for 1 and a half minutes cause he is 20 months old. Then I explain to him why he got the time out. There are times that he has gone in and started to touch the stove. Being that it could cause major damage, I rattle the diaper. He fusses a few minutes. Not because it hurt, but just the suprise of it. Consistency is the main thing. If his daddy and i did not stay after him, he could be more hard headed than a mule. But we don't let that happen. It is possible no matter what age, to stop the tantrum in it's tracks. Shad started getting bull headed when he was about 17 months. We identified that and fixed it. For the most part, all we have to do is count to five, and he listens. He knows that if he doesn't listen then he will either get a time out or he will get his diaper rattled. One of the two.

It will always be my belief that the way a kid acts out of the home is the way he acts in the home.