Oswald Chamber's view ofn the function of faith

[JimB]

Today’s reading from My Utmost for His Highest reveals Oswald Chambers view of the purpose of faith.

We have the idea that God rewards us for our faith, it may he so in
the initial stages; but we do not earn anything by faith, faith
brings us into right relationship with God and gives God His
opportunity. God has frequently to knock the bottom board out of your
experience if you are a saint in order to get you into contact with
Himself. God wants you to understand that it is a life of faith, not
a life of sentimental enjoyment of His blessings. Your earlier life
of faith was narrow and intense, settled around a little sun-spot of
experience that had as much of sense as of faith in it, full of light
and sweetness; then God withdrew His conscious blessings in order to
teach you to walk by faith. You are worth far more to Him now than
you were in your days of conscious delight and thrilling testimony.

Faith by its very nature must be tried, and the real trial of faith
is not that we find it difficult to trust God, but that God's
character has to be cleared in our own minds. Faith in its actual
working out has to go through spells of unsyllabled isolation. Never
confound the trial of faith with the ordinary discipline of life,
much that we call the trial of faith is the inevitable result of
being alive. Faith in the Bible is faith in God against everything
that contradicts Him - I will remain true to God's character whatever
He may do. "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - this is the
most sublime utterance of faith in the whole of the Bible.
​

What do you think?

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

 

[victoryword]

Today’s reading from My Utmost for His Highest reveals Oswald Chambers view of the purpose of faith.

We have the idea that God rewards us for our faith, it may he so in
the initial stages; but we do not earn anything by faith, faith
brings us into right relationship with God and gives God His
opportunity. ​

​

I think that Chambers (whom I respect) is first, building a false dichotomy and then going directly against Scripture based on his erroneous view. The Bible is clear that God rewards faith in all stages:

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward (Heb. 10:35)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Heb. 11:6)

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (Mat. 6:6)
​

Of course no one earns anything by faith (Rom. 4:1-8), but faith is not a work anyway. Faith is simply accepting what has been given by grace (Eph. 2:8, 9).

God has frequently to knock the bottom board out of your
experience if you are a saint in order to get you into contact with
Himself. God wants you to understand that it is a life of faith, not
a life of sentimental enjoyment of His blessings. Your earlier life
of faith was narrow and intense, settled around a little sun-spot of
experience that had as much of sense as of faith in it, full of light
and sweetness; then God withdrew His conscious blessings in order to
teach you to walk by faith. You are worth far more to Him now than
you were in your days of conscious delight and thrilling testimony.

Faith by its very nature must be tried, and the real trial of faith
is not that we find it difficult to trust God, but that God's
character has to be cleared in our own minds. Faith in its actual
working out has to go through spells of unsyllabled isolation. Never
confound the trial of faith with the ordinary discipline of life,
much that we call the trial of faith is the inevitable result of
being alive. Faith in the Bible is faith in God against everything
that contradicts Him - I will remain true to God's character whatever
He may do. "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - this is the
most sublime utterance of faith in the whole of the Bible.
​

What do you think?

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​

Chambers again makes a negative assumption by implying that God is the source of our trials and tribulations. Chambers seems to miss the part in the Bible where we are told that we are in a warfare and the part in the Bible that tells us that the trials come for the Word's sake (to destroy faith in it). I am sure that people will challenge me on this so I will withhold any Biblical references until you dare challenge me

But I do want to address the common misuse of that quote from Job. According to your quote, Chambers says, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - this is the most sublime utterance of faith in the whole of the Bible." He is quoting from the KJV and the KJV is completely inaccurate here according to numerous scholars and translations I have consulted. Let me give you two out of several:

• Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him, a rendering which one is most unwilling to surrender. But it must be confessed that it is a translation which it is impossible to defend, for the verb in the latter half of the clause does not mean trust, but rather wait for something or someone (Gibson, Edgar C. S. The Book of Job, p. 66).

• “Lo I He will slay me: I will not delay—Yet my ways will I maintain before Him" (chap.xiii. 15). The old Version here, ‘Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him’ is inaccurate.” (Watson, Robert Alexander, The Expositor's Bible: The Book of Job, p. 173).
​

Now,let me cite two out of a number of translations on this:

• Behold, he will slay me; I have no hope: Nevertheless I will maintain my ways before him (American Standard Version).

• Behold, He will cut me off; I will not wait, but I will justify my ways before His face (J.P. Green's Literal Translation).
​

Job was not by any means making a statement of “fatalistic faith.” Job was defending himself to his three so-called friends who falsely accused him of sinning and bring his trials upon himself. So again, Chambers missed the boat in his teaching on faith.

 

[JimB]

[/font][/size]
[/indent]I think that Chambers (whom I respect) is first, building a false dichotomy and then going directly against Scripture based on his erroneous view. The Bible is clear that God rewards faith in all stages:

Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward (Heb. 10:35)

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him (Heb. 11:6)

But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly (Mat. 6:6)
​

Of course no one earns anything by faith (Rom. 4:1-8), but faith is not a work anyway. Faith is simply accepting what has been given by grace (Eph. 2:8, 9).



Chambers again makes a negative assumption by implying that God is the source of our trials and tribulations. Chambers seems to miss the part in the Bible where we are told that we are in a warfare and the part in the Bible that tells us that the trials come for the Word's sake (to destroy faith in it). I am sure that people will challenge me on this so I will withhold any Biblical references until you dare challenge me

But I do want to address the common misuse of that quote from Job. According to your quote, Chambers says, "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him" - this is the most sublime utterance of faith in the whole of the Bible." He is quoting from the KJV and the KJV is completely inaccurate here according to numerous scholars and translations I have consulted. Let me give you two out of several:

• Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him, a rendering which one is most unwilling to surrender. But it must be confessed that it is a translation which it is impossible to defend, for the verb in the latter half of the clause does not mean trust, but rather wait for something or someone (Gibson, Edgar C. S. The Book of Job, p. 66).

• “Lo I He will slay me: I will not delay—Yet my ways will I maintain before Him" (chap.xiii. 15). The old Version here, ‘Though He slay me, yet will I trust in Him’ is inaccurate.” (Watson, Robert Alexander, The Expositor's Bible: The Book of Job, p. 173).
​

Now,let me cite two out of a number of translations on this:

• Behold, he will slay me; I have no hope: Nevertheless I will maintain my ways before him (American Standard Version).

• Behold, He will cut me off; I will not wait, but I will justify my ways before His face (J.P. Green's Literal Translation).
​

Job was not by any means making a statement of “fatalistic faith.” Job was defending himself to his three so-called friends who falsely accused him of sinning and bring his trials upon himself. So again, Chambers missed the boat in his teaching on faith.

Thanx, VW.

Good points.

~Jim

When you gonna wake up and strengthen the things that remain? ~Bob Dylan, 1979​