OSAS vs NOSAS

[Matthew Twentyfour]

"I don't know if this had already been mentioned here but would a Muslim be going to heaven if he was once a Christian believer?"

There is no true Christian who is now a Muslim. As the apostle John explained:

1 John 2:19 (NKJV)
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

Anyone who claims to have once been a Christian but who is now Muslim (or an adherent to any other religion) was never a believer in the first place. Their denial of Christ merely reveals them for the "tare" that they are.

Again, not everyone who claims to be a Christian actually is one. As Jesus plainly stated,

Matthew 7:16-21 (NKJV)
16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

Real, genuine, saving faith is always evidenced in corresponding behaviour. This is what the apostle James points out very sharply in the second chapter of the New Testament book bearing his name. KKK members are not "bearing good fruit." No matter what they may claim about an allegiance to Jesus, their works show that their faith is not truly in the Good Shepherd who taught:

Matthew 5:43-45 (NKJV)
43 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven...

No one who espouses the OSAS view supports the idea that salvation means one can live like the devil. I have heard OSAS preached and taught many times over the forty two years I've been a Christian and not once has it ever been said by those who so preached and taught that being saved was a license to sin. In fact, the very opposite is always preached. I don't understand why, then, those opposed to OSAS so regularly throw up this Strawman of the OSAS position.

I seriously doubt a genuine Christian believer will ever take the Mark Of the Beast. But even if they did, is God's grace so small that it cannot cover this sin? That's not what I read in Scripture:

Romans 5:20 (NKJV)
20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more,


Selah.

In your opinion, when is a person saved. Are you saying a person is not saved when he profess Christ as savior, believe in his heart and accept Christ's gift of salvation?

Two people profess, believed and accepted Christ as their savior as new Christians. What makes one person more real than the other? Is only one of them saved and not both?

Then when is a person actually saved? Is it when he's a genuine Christian? Is it when he's a real Christian? Is it when he's a true Christian? Is it when he refuses the mark of the beast? I'm using the words you used.

Post a scripture of when a person is saved?

 

[ToBeLoved]

So based on Romans 10:9 a person is eternally saved in your opinion. So this goes back to my original questions. Doesn't it seem odd that people like the Klu Klux Klan members --- which are Christians --- will go to heaven based on OSAS?

Doesn't it seem odd that anyone who's a Christian can take the mark of the beast during the tribulation, follow the beast and still go to heaven based on OSAS?

First, I don't know who God has saved and who God has not.

The Bible says that IF they have the Holy Spirit of God, sent by the Son of God that they are saved BECAUSE the Son of God has forgiven their sins.

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

I understand that you are trying to figure out these scenarios. My stand is and has always been that the indwelling Holy Spirit within someone, the Holy Spirit sent to that person after the Son of God has forgiven their sins, is what God's Word tells us that is the indicator of who is a child of God and who is not.

The determination is made by God. Anyone can say they are of God. Whether that be a Klu Klux Klan member or anyone else, we do not know who the Lord has placed His Holy Spirit within.

 

[jsimms615]

MOD HAT ON​

This thread has undergone a clean up due to this becoming a debate on chrisitian theology. This is a violation of the statement of purpose for this area of the forum, so some posts have been deleted. See the below rule:

"we would ask Christians to refrain from debating the matter here. You may point out that there is a differing viewpoint, but please do not use this forum to debate with other Christians. If Christians wish to discuss various doctrines with other Christians, they should do so in the Theology forums"

I am not going to clean this up again, so if this continues it will be closed permanently. Please follow and respect the rules

MOD HAT OFF​