OSAS sermon notes and critique of OSNAS passage usage

[PrincetonGuy]

Your statement that one cannot be saved twice is correct. I believe that those that turn away were never with us (1 John

2:19) rather than backsliders. But, the OSNAS doctrine teaches a coming home of the lost previous believer, which is the big issue I have.

The biggest OSAS verses are:
Phil 1:6
Rom 11:29
1 Pet 1:3- 5

If we become new creatures through the death of our old selves, then how can we then return. This is why 1 John 2:19 is such an important verse here. The ones that turn away were never new creatures.

Christians are justified through faith (irreversible) and sanctified for the work of God. We can never do that work perfectly, but we are called to work. At what point is that inproper work on our part going to cost us our salvation?

If one is covered by the blood of Christ, how can that be reversed? What limits do we put on Christ's sacrifice by saying we can be bad enough to lose its blessing?

Although there are a few people in the OSNAS camp who spiritualize the Epistle to the Hebrews, the historical view of the Church and the view of the large majority of the Church is that once a person loses his salvation, that loss is absolutely permanent. Getting saved twice is a ridiculous and non-Biblical teaching.

Hebrews 6:4. For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5. and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
6. and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (NASB, 1995)

The only question here is what can result in a genuine Christian “falling away?”

I wrote, “Pick any verse in the New Testament that you believe teaches OSAS and I will show you through careful exegesis of the Greek text that it does NOT teach OSAS.” Which verse is your pick?

None of the four verses that you have posted have anything at all to do with the doctrine of OSAS, one way or the other. The doctrine is usually argued from various verses in the Gospel According to John. However, if you wish to pick one of the four, that is fine with me. Or we can take all four of them, one at a time. Please pick one of them to start with.

 

[daveleau]

I am interested in what you have to say about why these do not contribute to a OSAS/eternal security standpoint. I am not a Calvinist, strictly speaking, because I do not hold high predestination beliefs. But, this does seem to have basis outside of Calvinism. But, I am always openminded to the Truth, hence why I love to read what others have to say. Prove all things and hold to what is true.

Let's start with Phil 1:6. I know the context is not speaking directly of salvation, but this seems to apply, since salvation is from God. It would seem that once God started to work in a person, that He would continue it. And, that God would not start a work in someone that was not sincere.

In Christ,
Dave

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Phil. 1:6. For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. (NASB, 1995)

When we attempt to accurately interpret a passage from a letter in the Bible, it is important that we consider the following:

• Who wrote the letter?

• Under what circumstances did the author write the letter?

• To whom was the letter written?

• What was the author’s purpose in writing the letter?

• What were the circumstances of the recipient of the letter?

The Epistle to the Philippians was written by Paul from prison, probably in Rome, but possibly in Caesarea or Ephesus. We do not have the necessary information to date the letter precisely, but we can confidently say that it was written sometime from 60-64 A.D. The recipients of the letter were the body of believers in Philippi, a city in Macedonia. The purpose of the letter was to encourage and admonish the body of believers in Philippi, and, therefore, it is not a theological treatise.

The Philippian Christians were well-established, wonderful believers who deeply loved Christ and the Apostle Paul. Therefore Paul had much confidence in the future of this particular body of believers. On the other hand, we find in stark contrast another body of believers, those in Corinth, to whom Paul wrote,

1 Cor. 10:1. For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the sea;
2. and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3. and all ate the same spiritual food;
4. and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
5. Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.
6. Now these things happened as examples for us, so that we would not crave evil things as they also craved.
7. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written, "THE PEOPLE SAT DOWN TO EAT AND DRINK, AND STOOD UP TO PLAY."
8. Nor let us act immorally, as some of them did, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.
9. Nor let us try the Lord, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the serpents.
10. Nor grumble, as some of them did, and were destroyed by the destroyer.
11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall. (NASB, 1995)

Paul did not know the ultimate fate of the Philippian Christians, but because of their proven steadfastness in the gospel, he had much confidence in their future. Paul did not know the ultimate fate of the Corinthians Christians either, but because of the severe spiritual problems that plagued that body of believers, he had very much less confidence in their future, and he sternly warned them by way of an Old Testament example about how God deals with His own people when they turn away from Him in unbelief. Notice especially vv. 11-12,

11. Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
12. Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed that he does not fall.

A key word in Phil. 1:6 is the Greek word πεποιθὼς translated “confident” in the KJV and the NASB. The Greek word πεποιθὼς is a singular, masculine, perfect active participle in the nominative case, the infinitive of which means to “persuade, prevail upon, or entreat.” It does not mean to know for a predetermined fact.

 

[JPPT1974]

Thanks for the verses you all
Keep up the good work
As that should explain it all!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Your statement that one cannot be saved twice is correct. I believe that those that turn away were never with us (1 John 2:19) rather than backsliders. But, the OSNAS doctrine teaches a coming home of the lost previous believer, which is the big issue I have.

The biggest OSAS verses are:
Phil 1:6
Rom 11:29
1 Pet 1:3- 5

If we become new creatures through the death of our old selves, then how can we then return. This is why 1 John 2:19 is such an important verse here. The ones that turn away were never new creatures.

Christians are justified through faith (irreversible) and sanctified for the work of God. We can never do that work perfectly, but we are called to work. At what point is that inproper work on our part going to cost us our salvation?

If one is covered by the blood of Christ, how can that be reversed? What limits do we put on Christ's sacrifice by saying we can be bad enough to lose its blessing?

I agree with you. It is God, after all, who does the work of salvation - as in making us new creatures - and we can be sure of His work.

Regarding Phil. 1:6 - the Greek word for "confident" is peitho which means to persuade. However, in this verse, the tense/voice is perfect particle active :
perfect tense, active voice. The perfect particle stresses a state that occurs becaused of the finished results of an action. Thus the tranlsators use a past tense:
"Being confident" (NASB, KJV)
"having been confident" (Young's literal Translation)
"And i am sure" (Revised Standard Version)

Paul is saying he is already persuaded, is already confident and sure that what is started in them will be continued - no doubt whatsoever.
So I absolutely believe that Phil. 1:6 supports OSAS, as it also stresses that the work is God's.


Another use of the word is here:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1139278697-3795.html
Rom 8:38 For 1063 I am persuaded 3982 , that 3754 neither 3777 death 2288, nor 3777 life 2222, nor 3777 angels 32, nor 3777 principalities 746, nor 3777 powers 1411, nor 3777 things present 1764 , nor 3777 things to come 3195 ,

 

[PrincetonGuy]

FreeinChrist,

Twice in your post you used the word “particle” when you should have used the word “participle.” The use of the word “sure” in the RSV of 1971 was a very poor and misleading choice, and in the NRSV (1989) they used the more accurate word, “confident.” I am sure that Michael is my son, and I am confident that my son Michael will get into Princeton—there is an excellent chance that he will, but the possibility that he won’t.

 

[PrincetonGuy]

Merriam-Webster Online Dictinary

Main Entry: con·fi·dent javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?confid05.wav=confident')
Pronunciation: 'kän-f&-d&nt, -"dent
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin confident-, confidens, from present participle of confidere
1 : characterized by assurance; especially : SELF-RELIANT
2 obsolete : TRUSTFUL, CONFIDING
3 a : full of conviction : CERTAIN b : COCKSURE
- con·fi·dent·ly adverb


Main Entry: 1sure javascript:popWin('/cgi-bin/audio.pl?sure0001.wav=sure')
Pronunciation: 'shur, esp Southern 'shOr
Function: adjective
Inflected Form(s): sur·er; sur·est
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French sur, from Latin securus secure
1 obsolete : safe from danger or harm
2 : firmly established : STEADFAST <a sure hold>
3 : RELIABLE, TRUSTWORTHY
4 : marked by or given to feelings of confident certainty <I'm sure I'm right>
5 : admitting of no doubt : INDISPUTABLE <spoke from sure knowledge>
6 a : bound to happen : INEVITABLE <sure disaster> b : BOUND, DESTINED <is sure to win>
7 : careful to remember, attend to, or find out something <be sure to lock the door>
- sure·ness noun
- for sure : without doubt or question : CERTAINLY
- to be sure : it must be acknowledged : ADMITTEDLY
synonyms SURE, CERTAIN, POSITIVE, COCKSURE mean having no doubt or uncertainty. SURE usually stresses the subjective or intuitive feeling of assurance <felt sure that I had forgotten something>. CERTAIN may apply to a basing of a conclusion or conviction on definite grounds or indubitable evidence <police are certain about the cause of the fire>. POSITIVE intensifies sureness or certainty and may imply opinionated conviction or forceful expression of it <I'm positive that's the person I saw>. COCKSURE implies presumptuous or careless positiveness <you're always so cocksure about everything>.