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Orthodox view of effects of Adam's sin

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countrymousenc

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Forgive the double post, but this probably ought to be a new thread:


Originally Posted by: MosestheBlack

We don't teach the Immaculate Conception because we don't believe that children are concieved and/or born with the guilt of Adam.

To Protestant ears this usually sounds like Pelagianism. What is the difference between Pelagianism and Orthodox teaching about the results of Adam's sin and its effects on the whole human race?
 

Photini

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Here's a clip from the Metroplitan of Nafpaktos, Hierotheos' book, The Mind of the Orthodox Church. I love his books. He has a very simple way of putting things, that even simple minds like mine can kind of grasp.

http://www.pelagia.org/htm/b12.en.the_mind_of_the_orthodox_church.06.htm#c1



<H3>1. The fall and restoration of man
I think that it is well for us to begin the subject by studying the fall of man and his resurrection which took place in Christ. This is very important, because in this way we shall be able to look more broadly at our subject, the catholic way of life. It is important also because the subject of the fall and resurrection is the basis of soteriology. If we do not examine it scientifically, we shall never be able to understand and live the life which the Church has. I ought to mention that the question of what is the fall of man has been analysed in other books of mine, and I do not want to repeat it. I shall merely emphasise a few points. The reader can find an extensive analysis in my book "Orthodox Psychotherapy", and in "Time to act", in the chapter "Traditional Catechism".

We usually think of the fall in juridical terms, in meaning which have been taken from the law courts. We consider that Adam's sin was simply a transgression of a law, an external one, and that this transgression created great guilt in man, with the result that this guilt has been inherited in Adam's descendants.

But this view of sin is not orthodox. In Orthodoxy we regard sin as an illness of man. Man fell ill and this illness had an effect on the whole human race. St. Kyril of Alexandria uses the image of the plant. When the root of the plant has become ill, then the branches also fall ill. We can interpret Adam's sin in this way as well.

St. Maximos, speaking of the fall of man and his restoration, puts them on a theological basis. He says that at the creation of the world and of man there were five divisions. The division between uncreated and created, noetic and tangible, Heaven and earth, Paradise and world, male and female. Adam, by the grace of God, but also by his personal struggle, an expression of his freedom, would have to overcome these divisions and reach communion and unity with the uncreated. To be sure, this last division, that between created and uncreated, could not be abolished, but the created would attain unity with the uncreated. Moreover, in the Church we say that there is no division between physical and metaphysical things, as philosophy claimed, but between created and uncreated. And further, we accept that the uncreated enters into the created, and thus man himself, as St. Maximos the Confessor says, also becomes uncreated by grace. Adam failed to transcend these divisions. And not only did he fail to transcend the division which we mentioned, but he also lost the purity which existed between the two sexes, with the result that decay and mortality entered into nature, that he wore the coats of skin of decay and mortality. Therefore now man's way of conception, gestation, birth, etc. , is a result of the fall, it is what the Fathers called coats of skin, which he wore after the fall.

The transcending of the five divisions took place in Christ. By His incarnation, by His birth from a Virgin, by the union of divine and human nature, he united the uncreated with the created, the heavenly with the earth, the noetic with the sensible, Paradise with the world, and he even transcended the division between male and female. Thus man's restoration was successful and every person was given the possibility that in Christ he too could transcend all the divisions and achieve his salvation.

If we want to look more concretely at the matter of the fall we will say that, as St. John of Damaskos teaches, the fall in reality is darkness of the image, loss of the divine life and putting on the coats of skin. The darkness of the image is nothing else but the darkening of the nous. The nous was darkened and could not have communion and unity with God. Of course it must be said that according to the anthropology of the Fathers, man's soul is rational and noetic. This means that man has two centres of functioning. One is the reasoning mind, which is connected with his nervous system, and the other his nous, which is connected with his heart. Adam's fall, then, is the darkening of his nous, the loss of its noetic function, confusion of the nous with the functions of reason and its enslavement to the passions and to the environment. Instead of moving according to nature and above nature, instead of moving towards God and being mindful of God, man's nous is turned towards the created things and the passions. That is why in the Church we speak of repentance, which is not simply a change in the head, as some theologians say, but a change of the nous. The nous must break away from the created and the passions and turn towards God.

A result of the darkening of his noetic energy is that man's relationship with God and his fellow man is upset. Because of his darkened nous, man does not find meaning in life, he turns his attention to the external things, with the result that he comes to blows with men, he has no inner peace. This is analysed in a wonderful way by St. Gregory Palamas. Fallen man uses God to safeguard his individual security and regards his neighbour as an object for predatory exploitation. He cannot have selfless love, because all his expressions and all his love contain the element of self-seeking, which is to say that man is characterised by self-seeking love. So the darkening of the nous has drastic social consequences. Sociology cannot be regarded as independent of theology.

In this sense we can speak of inheritance of sin and of the ancestral sin, which man inherits at birth. In this sense too we can speak of the catholicity of the fall of man.

What Adam failed to do, Christ, who is called the new Adam, succeeded in doing. By His incarnation Christ deified human nature and became the strongest medicine for men, in the sense that He gave every man the possibility of achieving his deification. In this light we can interpret the phrase from the troparion that Christ raised up "Adam with the whole human race".

At this point I would like to look at two passages in St. John of Damaskos which will help us to understand in some way the mystery of the incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. It must of course be emphasised that this too is a subject not of rational understanding but of spiritual experience, yet we can say something about the doctrine of the incarnation of the Son and Word of God.

St. John of Damaskos, repeating a passage from St. Gregory the Theologian whom he calls his spiritual father, says that Christ took on the whole human nature, because what is not assumed is not cured. St. John of Damaskos goes on to say that the ruling centre of the soul and the flesh is the nous, which is the purest part of the soul, but also that the ruling centre of the nous is God Himself. When God acts, then the nous manifests its own authority, and then "it is under the control of the stronger and follows it, doing those things which the divine will desires". The Son and Word of God has united with the flesh "by means of the nous", which is midway between the purity of God and the grossness of the flesh. So the nous became the place of its personal union with divinity. The saint writes characteristically: "The nous becomes the seat of the Divinity which has been hypostatically united to it". This has great importance, because it shows that man's salvation begins and works in the nous and then extends to the whole body. Thus we understand the great importance of the neptic tradition of our Church.

The other point from the teaching of St. John of Damaskos which is useful to us here is that by His incarnation the Word of God did not assume the human nature "that is understood in pure theory", that is to say, he did not assume a simple nature, that which is seen externally, because then it would not have been incarnation, but an illusion and fiction of incarnation. Also He did not assume this nature "regarded as a species", but that which is seen in the individual, which at the same time belongs also to the species, because Christ assumed the whole mixture of what was our own from the beginning. This is important because, as St. John of Damaskos again says, human nature rose from the dead and sat at the right hand of the Father "not implying that all human persons arose and sat at the right hand of the Father, but that our entire nature did so in the Person of Christ". That is to say that human nature has been deified in the person of the Logos. So human nature has been deified in the hypostasis of the Logos, but our own human hypostases must be deified as well.

Therefore the catholicity of Adam's fall has the meaning of the illness of human nature and the catholicity of the resurrection through the New Adam, Christ, it again has the meaning of the cure. Christ cured human nature, He Himself became the strongest medicine towards the cure, and he gives every man the possibility of being cured. Thus we can maintain that Christ is both the physician and the medicine, man's cure and his health.
</H3>
 
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Photini

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countrymousenc said:
Thanks, Photini :)

I have to admit, though, it doesn't look that simple to me! I think it's going to take more than one or two readings for me to quite grasp what's being said.
I pretty much had to wipe my slate clean of alot of things when I first started reading books on Orthodox doctrines. I thought my brain was going to explode a couple of times because of the *revelations* that were always in front of my face, but I never saw them.
 
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Eusebios

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Remember countrymouse, Photini is a self-described bookworm:) Seriously though, I agree with her and you. Orthodxy, when understood properly causes lots of Homer Simpson like head slapping, doh! :)
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:
 
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countrymousenc

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:wave:
Eusebios said:
Remember countrymouse, Photini is a self-described bookworm:)
So that's why I like her! :) (One of my struggles is going to be putting down the books to give enough time to the housework. I don't do that so well.)

Seriously though, I agree with her and you. Orthodoxy, when understood properly causes lots of Homer Simpson like head slapping, doh! :)
Yes, in fact, I've already felt sheepish several times. I've just finished a little volume with 1st Clement, the letters of St. Ignatius, St. Polycarp, a letter written by (St.?) Barnabus, and the Didache. Now into the Shepherd of Hermas, and St. Athanasius' On the Incarnation. It seems important to me to understand the early Fathers before going on to the later ones, but I'll see what Fr. Bill has to say! (First visit this morning - got to go get ready.) :)

In Christ,
Dianne
 
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Eusebios

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countrymousenc said:
:wave:
So that's why I like her! :) (One of my struggles is going to be putting down the books to give enough time to the housework. I don't do that so well.)
I'm reading 5 or 6 books myself at the moment, excluding my school reading;)

countrymousenc said:
Yes, in fact, I've already felt sheepish several times. I've just finished a little volume with 1st Clement, the letters of St. Ignatius, St. Polycarp, a letter written by (St.?) Barnabus, and the Didache. Now into the Shepherd of Hermas, and St. Athanasius' On the Incarnation. It seems important to me to understand the early Fathers before going on to the later ones, but I'll see what Fr. Bill has to say! (First visit this morning - got to go get ready.) :)

In Christ,
Dianne
So Dianne, how did it go? And by the way, you're one highly literate "mouse"
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:
 
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countrymousenc

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Eusebios said:
So Dianne, how did it go? And by the way, you're one highly literate "mouse"

I loved it! LoL, nobody had three eyes or two heads, and none of it seemed strange or suspicious. I've heard that the OCA has a more "Western" kind of atmosphere than the other Orthodox churches, so maybe that accounts for it. Everyone was really nice, but nobody was pushy.

I can't think why I'd want to worship any other way; it felt like finally getting home. The first couple I met after arriving lives in a town about 15 miles north of where I live, and there are people driving as much as an hour and a half to attend.

My husband and younger son didn't go with me this time, but they will be attending with me at intervals, or at least that was our agreement. Fr. Bill expressed reticence about "breaking up families." (I explained that Hubby and son already decided on the United Methodist church around the corner, because they're comfortable there.) I know that it wouldn't be easy to live the Orthodox life with a non-Orthodox family, but I hope that I'm not barred from converting on the basis that my family doesn't want to regularly attend or convert. :(

I hope Fr. Bill is prepared to be peppered with questions by email!

Your friend in Christ, :)
Dianne
 
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Matrona

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Oblio said:
Come to think of it. I may have you confused with another inquirer in the SE :sorry:
Momzilla is the one who lives near St. John of the Ladder. :)

It's so cool that so many people on here live near me. I keep wondering if one Sunday, two of us are going to run into each other and not even realize it! (It almost happened to me once--one of my online Orthodox friends visited a parish in my city while on a trip, and we didn't realize it until after he got back home.)
 
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Eusebios

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Dianne,
Great to hear that things went well. My wife and I are OCA and really love it, though we here in NE Ohio are very blessed in that there are many Orthodox Churches, and for the most part, they really work together.
There are also a number of family situations that I am aware of that are similar to yours, and it doesn't present a permanent bar to membership by any stretch of the imagination. The priests response is both prudent and typical, a good priest it seems never rushes anybody to convert.
Keep us updated. I am delighted that you had such a positive experience.
His unworthy servant,
Eusebios.
:bow:
 
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MariaRegina

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countrymousenc said:
I loved it! LoL, nobody had three eyes or two heads, and none of it seemed strange or suspicious. I've heard that the OCA has a more "Western" kind of atmosphere than the other Orthodox churches, so maybe that accounts for it. Everyone was really nice, but nobody was pushy.

I can't think why I'd want to worship any other way; it felt like finally getting home. The first couple I met after arriving lives in a town about 15 miles north of where I live, and there are people driving as much as an hour and a half to attend.

My husband and younger son didn't go with me this time, but they will be attending with me at intervals, or at least that was our agreement. Fr. Bill expressed reticence about "breaking up families." (I explained that Hubby and son already decided on the United Methodist church around the corner, because they're comfortable there.) I know that it wouldn't be easy to live the Orthodox life with a non-Orthodox family, but I hope that I'm not barred from converting on the basis that my family doesn't want to regularly attend or convert. :(

I hope Fr. Bill is prepared to be peppered with questions by email!

Your friend in Christ, :)
Dianne


Dear Countrymouse:

A similar situation happened with me. My son and I wanted to convert to Orthodoxy but my husband didn't. The priest said that he preferred to receive an entire family all together so as not to split the family and possibly cause a divorce. Orthodoxy honors the Sacrament of Marriage and tries to keep marriages intact. When a spouse converts without permission of the other, it causes marital strife.

By taking this approach, the Priest will be respected by your husband. My husband was so impressed that the Priest was concerned for our salvation, that he made an appointment to see the Priest. Within one month, he too desired to be received into Orthodoxy.

I'll pray for you.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth
 
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countrymousenc

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Thanks, Elizabeth :hug:

My husband has given me permission to go and to convert, anywhere I wish, and we don't either one believe in divorce. (If we did, we'd not likely have made it this far - 25 years and counting! and it's been anything but easy.) Lee realized that I couldn't worship and that I was miserable in the church where Chris, our 14-year-old, wants to go. Essentially, he let Chris choose the church, partly for fear that Chris would refuse to go anywhere else. Lee and Chris worked out an agreement between them that they would go to church with me about once a month, and when Chris is 18, Lee will go to church with me, but has no intention of converting, himself (because he'd have to go to confession).

There wasn't enough time yesterday to fully explain this to Fr. Bill. Lee and I are committed to working this out in a way that both of us can live with and that best serves Chris's needs for the time being.

I am comforted to know that you're praying for us.

Love in Christ,
Dianne
 
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The Prokeimenon!

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To Protestant ears this usually sounds like Pelagianism. What is the difference between Pelagianism and Orthodox teaching about the results of Adam's sin and its effects on the whole human race?

I believe that the heresy of Pelagianism states that man is born without the guilt or consequences of Adam's sin, and is therefore able to save himself without the Grace of God.

Orthodoxy states that while man is not born guilty , he is nonetheless born into a sinful world, where the body is subject to death, and the spirit is a slave to the bodily passions. It is necessary to cooperate with God's Grace in order to restore a man to his intended human nature.

Adam's sin did not make anybody guilty (except Adam), but it did result in the corruption of creation. We must have the Grace of God to restore our nature to it's Adamic state.

I hope I'm not causing more confusion- perhaps a more eloquent writer could elaborate- I'm confusing myself with words :confused: ;)

Moses
 
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