Orthodox view of Christ's sacrifice

[G4m]

Hey all!

What is the Orthodox view on why Christ was sacrificed for man?

Thanks...

 

[Buccaneer]

Yashua was sent by yhwh to live a perfect sinless life hence a lamb without blemish. You may recall in the days of old, animals were sacrficed to God. Well, being as the Messiah was without error, he was the perfect sacrfice to justify God in departing us from our sins that we would not necessarly perish.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

Greetings, G4M,

To put things in a nutshell:

The typical Protestant view is that our sins broke God's Divine Laws. Because He is Holy and demands perfection, SOMEONE had to be punished for those sins, so Jesus took the punishment instead of us.

We do not subscribe to that view - at all!!!!!! In fact, as a former Protestant, it is now somewhat repulsive to me, and makes me sad. God is not some Greco-Roman sky God who demands blood, demands sacrifice, to appease His anger or make Himself feel better.

When mankind fell, sin entered the world, and death, which before then had been unknown. The image of God within us became tarnished - we began to "see through a glass darkly", as St. Paul says. We became entangled to sin - death had a stranglehold on us. Christ came to restore us - not to make God feel better, but to free us! Only by death being conquered by death, could those chains around us be broken. We do not focus so much on the suffering of His crucifixion as on the Gloriousness of His Resurrection!

This is an excellent article: http://holytrinity.ok.goarch.org/Interesting%20Stuff/tca_carltonfirstbaptist.htm It is about one man's journey to the Orthodox Church, but in about the middle is some really great stuff that deals with this topic. I hope you find it helpful.

Christ is risen!

Kat

 

[Suzannah]

Yashua was sent by yhwh to live a perfect sinless life hence a lamb without blemish. You may recall in the days of old, animals were sacrficed to God. Well, being as the Messiah was without error, he was the perfect sacrfice to justify God in departing us from our sins that we would not necessarly perish.

Dear Buccaneer,

Welcome to the Orthodox Christian forum, the Ancient Way. While I appreciate your attempt to answer the question, and I realize you're new to the forums, your explanation is in contrast to the Orthodox view. We do not subscribe to this view at all. I hope you will stick around and ask questions about what we believe.

 

[Rilian]

I agree with Kat, and just as a point of emphasis I think in Orthodoxy what she is describing is still seen very much in sacrificial terms. Instead of sacrifice of appeasement to satisfy divine wrath though, what happened on the cross is seen more in the light of self-sacrifice to release us from the bondage of sin. Sin is not viewed as a debt on Gods ledger.

The eucharist in Orthodoxy is also very sacrificial in character and in it is believed to be the true body and blood of Christ. People often make the sign of the cross as well, which I think in large part is a reminder of the sacrifice made on our behalf.

 

[G4m]

Greetings, G4M,

To put things in a nutshell:

The typical Protestant view is that our sins broke God's Divine Laws. Because He is Holy and demands perfection, SOMEONE had to be punished for those sins, so Jesus took the punishment instead of us.

We do not subscribe to that view - at all!!!!!! In fact, as a former Protestant, it is now somewhat repulsive to me, and makes me sad. God is not some Greco-Roman sky God who demands blood, demands sacrifice, to appease His anger or make Himself feel better.

When mankind fell, sin entered the world, and death, which before then had been unknown. The image of God within us became tarnished - we began to "see through a glass darkly", as St. Paul says. We became entangled to sin - death had a stranglehold on us. Christ came to restore us - not to make God feel better, but to free us! Only by death being conquered by death, could those chains around us be broken. We do not focus so much on the suffering of His crucifixion as on the Gloriousness of His Resurrection!

This is an excellent article: http://holytrinity.ok.goarch.org/Interesting%20Stuff/tca_carltonfirstbaptist.htm It is about one man's journey to the Orthodox Church, but in about the middle is some really great stuff that deals with this topic. I hope you find it helpful.

Christ is risen!

Kat

Hey Anonykat,

thanks for the reply! Interestingly this seems very close to my own view and I don't think I've heard of any other Christian group or denomination teaching this! It's nice to know I'm not completely alone!

To me, His sacrifice was the laying down of His own life (when it was not required as He had not sinned - as the wages os sin is death), to take up the authority over death and to proivide the resurrection.

As far as suffering, I still think it's important to recognise Christ's suffering. Not in the view that He has taken it for us, but that He has set an example for us to follow, as Peter stated. Anyways, just my thoughts...

Also, thanks for the link I'll have a read!

 

[Michael G]

Hey all!

What is the Orthodox view on why Christ was sacrificed for man?

Thanks...

The Orthodox view of Christ's death and Resurrection is this:

Prior to the fall man was in communion with God. The fall ocurred because man sinned against God. Because man was disobedient to God, sin enterred the world and man fell out of communion with God. All of the children of Adam bear the price of his sin, ie our fallen nature, but they are not guilty of the original sin. In order to bring back communion between God and Man, God established a relationship with the Jewish people. He used the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings, Ancestors, Priests, etc. to prepare the world for the incarnation. It was only be becoming man and conquering death that God could re-establish communion between God and man. This is because only God has the power to do such an awesome thing, but at the same time it was man who sinned and therefor man had to do the actual work which would heal the relationship between God and man. By his death and resurrection Christ conquered sin, once and for all. This was not as a punishment, but rather a willing act on the behalf of Christ. The act was not penitential, but rather a submission to the will of the father. Yes Isiah says it was by his wounds we were healed, but without the resurrection the crucifixion means nothing. By rising from the dead Christ showed God's dominion over all things, including sin and death. It is for this reason that Pascha is the feast of feasts!

I hope I have not mis-spoken and I hope I have cleared up atleast a little bit what our view of salvation is.
Peace,
Michael

 

[G4m]

The Orthodox view of Christ's death and Resurrection is this:

Prior to the fall man was in communion with God. The fall ocurred because man sinned against God. Because man was disobedient to God, sin enterred the world and man fell out of communion with God. All of the children of Adam bear the price of his sin, ie our fallen nature, but they are not guilty of the original sin. In order to bring back communion between God and Man, God established a relationship with the Jewish people. He used the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings, Ancestors, Priests, etc. to prepare the world for the incarnation. It was only be becoming man and conquering death that God could re-establish communion between God and man. This is because only God has the power to do such an awesome thing, but at the same time it was man who sinned and therefor man had to do the actual work which would heal the relationship between God and man. By his death and resurrection Christ conquered sin, once and for all. This was not as a punishment, but rather a willing act on the behalf of Christ. The act was not penitential, but rather a submission to the will of the father. Yes Isiah says it was by his wounds we were healed, but without the resurrection the crucifixion means nothing. By rising from the dead Christ showed God's dominion over all things, including sin and death. It is for this reason that Pascha is the feast of feasts!

I hope I have not mis-spoken and I hope I have cleared up atleast a little bit what our view of salvation is.
Peace,
Michael

Thanks Michael!

 

[Matthias]

Yah.

 

[Rick of Wessex]

Hello, G4m.

You can also check this wonderful article:

The Meaning of Christ's Suffering
http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/cross.htm

In XC,
Rick

 

[Philip]

As far as suffering, I still think it's important to recognise Christ's suffering. Not in the view that He has taken it for us, but that He has set an example for us to follow, as Peter stated. Anyways, just my thoughts...

Very well said.

 

[Rick of Wessex]

Hi there!

As far as suffering, I still think it's important to recognise Christ's suffering. Not in the view that He has taken it for us, but that He has set an example for us to follow, as Peter stated.

Sorry, but this view is completely opposite to the Orthodox Church.

In fact, the belief that Christ's sacrifice and suffering are only "good examples" for us to follow is a heresy called Pellagianism, which was condemned in the Council of Ephesus in 431 A.D.

Yours in XC,
Rick

 

[Matthias]

Philip agrees, Rick doesn't - who is right?

 

[G4m]

Philip agrees, Rick doesn't - who is right?

By his death and resurrection Christ conquered sin, once and for all. This was not as a punishment, but rather a willing act on the behalf of Christ. The act was not penitential, but rather a submission to the will of the father.

"The fishermen of Galilee attest with utmost simplicity that the incarnate, Only-Begotten Son of God voluntarily took upon Himself the guilt of mankind and suffered for it by a humiliating and tormented death on the Cross. He took on Himself the punishment we were supposed to receive."

Now I'm confused.

Philip, I think you may have once said that this was a difference between East and West? Is that right?

I'm not trying to start a debate here (I'm far too ignorant of the Orthodox church to even try!), I would just like to understand!

Thanks...

 

[countrymousenc]

Now I'm confused.

Philip, I think you may have once said that this was a difference between East and West? Is that right?

I'm not trying to start a debate here (I'm far too ignorant of the Orthodox church to even try!), I would just like to understand!

Thanks...

Yes, this is one of the differences between east and west. Think about it... according to traditional western theology, our punishment would have been burning in **** for all eternity. Christ isn't in that predicament. Also, it would make martyrs such as St. Peter appear to be the ultimate losers, since many died during Nero's persecution in the same manner as Christ.

 

[Nikolas222]

We think more of a God of hope, love, and forgiveness rather than a God of punishment and consequence.

 

[Photini]

We are to be participants in the sufferings of Christ, not imitators of it.

"In my opinion, it is the whole recapitulated that one sees not indeed by essence, but by participation." ~St . Symeon the New Theologian, Hymn 1

 

[G4m]

Yes, this is one of the differences between east and west. Think about it... according to traditional western theology, our punishment would have been burning in **** for all eternity. Christ isn't in that predicament. Also, it would make martyrs such as St. Peter appear to be the ultimate losers, since many died during Nero's persecution in the same manner as Christ.

Please excuse my ignorance here, but do you mean Eastern Orthodox vs Western Orthodox, or simply east vs west in general terms of christianity?

 

[countrymousenc]

Please excuse my ignorance here, but do you mean Eastern Orthodox vs Western Orthodox, or simply east vs west in general terms of christianity?

I mean Eastern Orthodox vs western Christian doctrine in general.

 

[Oblio]

'Western' Orthodoxy holds the same faith as Eastern Orthodoxy. There are differences in the Liturgical rites (IIRC Western Orthodoxy uses the Liturgy of St. Tikon).