(Orthodox) Full immersion vs submersion?

[All4Christ]

So I thought that we baptized infants by fully immersing them into water - quickly under the water three times, but I just noticed that a recent baptism at our church had the child dipped partially into the water with a scoop of water over her head, repeated three times. Which is the normative method in the church? Is one the Russian vs Greek vs Antiochian method?

I’m interested in the Oriental Orthodox method as Eastern Catholic method as well.

To all: Please don’t use this as a thread to debate the validity of infant baptism with immersion.

ETA: I guess I’m also asking “what does full immersion mean?” Submersion? Or something different?

 

[Daniel9v9]

It's perhaps not in my place to comment, but at least historically, most orthodox branches of the church exercise some freedom as to the mode of baptism. While immersion is often preferred, other modes are equally valid, so it's viewed as adiaphora (the mode that is, not whether or not baptism is necessary).

One of the earliest Christian catechisms, the Didache, reads: "But if you don't have running water, baptise in other water, and if can't baptise in cold, then in warm. But if you have neither, pour water three times on the head "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."

As for the typical customs in the churches you've mentioned, I'll leave to someone more qualified to respond.

 

[All4Christ]

While it is true that many of the traditional have freedom in the modus operandi, we (Eastern Orthodox) are required to have full immersion unless circumstances require an alternative method (such as imminent death where immersion isn’t feasible). The Didache is a great resource from the Early Church

Thanks for your response!

 

[Daniel9v9]

While it is true that many of the traditional have freedom in the modus operandum, we (Eastern Orthodox) are required to have full immersion unless circumstances require an alternative method (such as imminent death where immersion isn’t feasible). The Didache is a great resource from the Early Church

Thanks for your response!

Oh, I see. I didn't know that! I certainly have no objections to that. Thanks for explaining!

 

[dzheremi]

In the Coptic Orthodox Church, the standard is full triple immersion, for both infants and adults.

Sorry to pick an example with weird piano music in the background inserted by the videographer, but this is by far the most professionally shot video of a Coptic baptism I've seen yet, and in English to boot.

Exceptions, as far as I've seen, tend to be as you've stated, according to situations where circumstances require an alternative method. I have a feeling this is more common in the diaspora due to many of the OO churches being formerly some other kind of church (rather than being specifically designed for our needs), and also the many, many cases wherein a community is meeting in a private home or has rented out a hall for services, or something similar.

I have seen the 'pouring over the head' method that you describe, as in Ethiopia in the video below, so I know it is something that is allowed, but I have also seen Ethiopian baptisms online where a standard baptismal fount is used. So I think it can vary quite a bit, depending on local circumstances.

 

[buzuxi02]

Many priests today are too scared to fully immerse infants, and then many parents wait and babies are too big to fit completely in the front.

 

[Hermit76]

My daughter was 4 (we're converts) and was terrified. So, he ended up having her head out of the water and poured over her head. He explained that it's often done that way.

 

[ArmyMatt]

my daughter was immersed three times, as was I.

 

[archer75]

I've heard - from a priest - that such applications of economy are not rare at all.

 

[Hermit76]

I do wish we'd thought about it and worked with her on it beforehand. She's not afraid anymore after going swimming quite a bit.

 

[All4Christ]

So it’s taught in the OCA seminary to be full immersion? Is it typically just the request of a parent for the alternative partial immersion method? Is it still fully valid / accepted if they were small enough to be fully immersed?

 

[All4Christ]

In the Coptic Orthodox Church, the standard is full triple immersion, for both infants and adults.

Sorry to pick an example with weird piano music in the background inserted by the videographer, but this is by far the most professionally shot video of a Coptic baptism I've seen yet, and in English to boot.

Exceptions, as far as I've seen, tend to be as you've stated, according to situations where circumstances require an alternative method. I have a feeling this is more common in the diaspora due to many of the OO churches being formerly some other kind of church (rather than being specifically designed for our needs), and also the many, many cases wherein a community is meeting in a private home or has rented out a hall for services, or something similar.

I have seen the 'pouring over the head' method that you describe, as in Ethiopia in the video below, so I know it is something that is allowed, but I have also seen Ethiopian baptisms online where a standard baptismal fount is used. So I think it can vary quite a bit, depending on local circumstances.

Thank you for the response! That’s how I thought another priest did it for my godson. For clarification - The way our priest did it is different than what you showed in the second video. The baby was dipped into the water, but her head wasn’t immersed...he used his hand to sweep the head with over with water, like you might do when bathing a child.

 

[All4Christ]

I've heard - from a priest - that such applications of economy are not rare at all.

Economia by request or normative application?

 

[All4Christ]

my daughter was immersed three times, as was I.

Same with my husband, all his ancestors, my nephew...

 

[All4Christ]

Many priests today are too scared to fully immerse infants <snip>

Seminary teaching? Personal concern? Something different?

 

[All4Christ]

Being a convert from a church where we taught full immersion was critical, that was something I really appreciate about Orthodox baptism.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I was taught full immersion

 

[Meko126]

We will be baptized this fall, but when I mentioned that I anticipated my 4 year old being quite angry with us all after the baptism, our priest surprised me by saying he could baptize my son without getting much water in his face. I wasn’t expecting that response! Just thought he deserved fair warning

I didn’t think to ask about the baby. He’s pretty big, but I sort of assumed he’d still get the full triple immersion. Now I’m curious!

 

[All4Christ]

We will be baptized this fall, but when I mentioned that I anticipated my 4 year old being quite angry with us all after the baptism, our priest surprised me by saying he could baptize my son without getting much water in his face. I wasn’t expecting that response! Just thought he deserved fair warning

I didn’t think to ask about the baby. He’s pretty big, but I sort of assumed he’d still get the full triple immersion. Now I’m curious!

I’m curious as well! Btw, welcome to The Ancient Way

 

[Meko126]

I’m curious as well! Btw, welcome to The Ancient Way

Thanks!