Orthodox Childfree

[NovemberFool]

Hello. I'd like to ask a question about Orthodox beliefs and I hope that's not overstepping a line. I love reading on this board because you all just seem so friendly. I'm not interested in judging, or debating. I'm here to learn, with deep respect.

How do you feel about childfree couples? That is, married couples who decide not to try for children. I'm not including those who would have an abortion if an unexpected pregnancy pops up, although some couples might decide to give the child up for adoption. Does Orthodoxy allow couples to decide how many children they wish to have, whether it be 0, 1, or 12?

Thank you. I look forward to the responses. I've been interested in Orthodoxy since I was in college, but my husband and I are childfree (we might have 1 when I'm a little older and we can afford a home) and that's kind of a deal breaker for a chuch. I did a google search, but me a google don't seem to get along for some reason.

 

[kamikat]

Well, children are a natural side effect of marriage! I can tell you what my priest has said, but other priests might be more or less traditional. My priest has said that it's ok to use non-abortive contraception to space children. However, he has said that if a young engaged couple comes to him to ask him to marry them, he will not marry a couple that does not want children. You're best course of action would be to find your nearest Orthodox Church, call up and speak with the priest.
Also, when I was your age, I didn't want kids, either. Our first son was a complete surprise. You don't know what God has in store for you.

 

[Sothron]

AFAIK there is no dogma on contraceptives. Each priest will handle the situation differently. Abortion is definitely considered a sin but not contraceptives (as dogma). I am only a catechumen so I can only go by what I read recently in Bishop Kallistos "Orthodox Church" book and from my catechumen/inquirer classes.

If a chrismated Orthodox knows a better answer please edify us all in this thread.

 

[gorion]

As said earlier this is not (afaik) dogma. I have heard it said that the avoidance of pregnancy in order to have a "lifestyle" is a problem. So intention plays a role.

Of course abortive types of contraceptive is a problem as well.

 

[drpepper101]

The OCA's website says:

The control of the conception of a child by any means is also condemned by the Church if it means the lack of fulfillment in the family, the hatred of children, the fear of responsibility, the desire for sexual pleasure as purely fleshly, lustful satisfaction, etc.

Again, however, married people practicing birth control are not necessarily deprived of Holy Communion, if in conscience before God and with the blessing of their spiritual father, they are convinced that their motives are not entirely unworthy. Here again, however, such a couple cannot pretend to justify themselves in the light of the absolute perfection of the Kingdom of God.

http://www.oca.org/QA.asp?ID=147&SID=3

From what I understand there is nothing in Orthodoxy like Humane Vitae, but it is not acceptable for a married couple to use artificial means to avoid having children at all.

 

[Khaleas]

It really depends on the situation so each one could be handled differently by the priest even if they seem the same on the outside. This is definitely one of those questions to ask a priest.
In regards to 'lifestyle' stuff... it really depends on what the situation is. We are okayed to wait because Father feels that it's very important for my husband to actually be home through the pregnancy and the birth and with sea tour in the Navy that can definitely not be guaranteed.
I was just cracking up this last weekend after I had just told people that hubs was out to sea, the next thing they ask is 'So are you trying to get pregnant right now?'. Umm, did you just miss something???

 

[kamikat]

II was just cracking up this last weekend after I had just told people that hubs was out to sea, the next thing they ask is 'So are you trying to get pregnant right now?'. Umm, did you just miss something???

The next time that happens, you should say "are you volunteering to take his place?"
When I got pregnant with my first son, he was so big, the doctors kept asking me if I was wrong about the dates. I kept telling them that he was out of the country the whole month prior and I wasn't about to change my name to Mary

 

[drpepper101]

I'm not saying this would be kosher with Orthodoxy, but I've known a couple of petty officers that gave samples to be frozen so their wives could continue trying to conceive when they were out. I found it a bit wierd but from what I was told with some fertility treatments it wasn't uncommon.

 

[cassc]

I guess it is a special case but I know that in my parish we have a couple that never had children because the husband has a genetic medical condition that he was very likely to pass on and is often although not always fatal. They have never been asked not to participate in the sacraments or anything....

 

[eoe]

In other words - you are willing to accept the ultimate truth as long as it does not conflict with your ownh personal preferences?


Orthodoxy is either the truth or it is not. Our own personal wants or preferences do not affect that. Seek the truth and then worry about what happens later.

 

[Lotar]

Contraception is a sin, so unless the couple is naturally barren, I would say that the Orthodox Church does not look so fondly upon it.

 

[rusmeister]

In other words - you are willing to accept the ultimate truth as long as it does not conflict with your ownh personal preferences?


Orthodoxy is either the truth or it is not. Our own personal wants or preferences do not affect that. Seek the truth and then worry about what happens later.

Agree completely.

Whether or not the Church approves of childlessness must take a back seat to whether it is the Truth or not.

 

[NovemberFool]

A church cannot be the truth if it forces me to have unwanted children. Just how I see things. Thank you for the responses.

 

[Orthosdoxa]

hmmm... it's really not about forcing you to have unwanted children. It's about what's in the heart. Salvation is not a given until we have breathed our last and endured until the end, having grown as much into the image and likeness of God that we were able to. Your spiritual father walks the path with you and if he were to see that you were selfish in your desire to not have children, that you hated children, that you wanted a worldly lifestyle that little brats would hinder, that you wanted to be rich and said children would hinder that, then he would point out that there is something wrong in your heart that could potentially endanger your salvation. (I'm not accusing you of any of the above, I'm just giving examples.)

There are legitimate reasons to not want children, such as having a deadly disease that would certainly be passed on, as someone pointed out. There may be other legitimate reasons, too. There are many more sinful reasons to not want to have them. That would be something an Orthodox Christian would work out with their spiritual father and their spouse, to make sure that their heart was in a Godly place, and not a sinful one in this regard. It's not about forcing you to do anything, it's where your heart is. And no one here is judging that, but in general, yes, we do discourage contraception, for children can also play a vital role in your salvation, as they teach you to be more loving, more patient, ie, more Christlike.

I suggest you email Fr. John Matusiak at oca.org with this question.
LK

 

[Protoevangel]

A church cannot be the truth if it forces me to have unwanted children. Just how I see things. Thank you for the responses.

...And God can't be God if He makes you do something you don't want, huh? I see. It's all about you.

I'm here to learn, with deep respect.

Yea, your last post makes that quite clear.

 

[NovemberFool]

...And God can't be God if He makes you do something you don't want, huh? I see. It's all about you.


Yea, your last post makes that quite clear.

I thought that was mean. I never said it was all about me. I can respect without automatically agreeing. If you think I'm wrong about truth, let me be wrong. Don't get mean.

 

[drpepper101]

I think what you're seeing here, and I don't mean to be rude, is the end result of a contraception culture. Children aren't seen as blessings from God, but parasites that consume resources you want to spend on a fancy new TV set. It's just really sad to see how some people think about other human beings.

 

[drpepper101]

I thought that was mean. I never said it was all about me. I can respect without automatically agreeing. If you think I'm wrong about truth, let me be wrong. Don't get mean.

I think it's a matter of thinking about what you post before you post it. Not trying to be rude, but yes the post you made was very self centered. When your argument boils down to "I want this" and you say that then you must be wrong because in my egocentric world what I want is always right some people are bound to object. From a logical standpoint it makes no sense, there are all sorts of things people want or don't want that God says we can or cannot do. Imagine saying, "I want to fornicate and because you say I can't fornicate you must be wrong."
The response you recieved was in the same tone as the post you made. Being uncharitible and then demanding others be more chartible with you is simply being a hypocrite. You asked a question, and it was answered. Not getting the answer you want is not a reason to be short and tell others that they are wrong because you didn't like their answer. I'm sure if you were to edit your post into something that sounded remotely civil the other poster would do the same. Just a suggestion.

 

[Protoevangel]

I thought that was mean. I never said it was all about me. I can respect without automatically agreeing. If you think I'm wrong about truth, let me be wrong. Don't get mean.

You said "A church cannot be the truth if it forces me to have unwanted children." That is nothing less than totally self-absorbed. You may as well say, "A church cannot be the truth if it doesn't allow me to do everything and everything I want." What you may or may not want has absolutely zero bearing whatsoever on what is true or not.

It is also unnecessary and highly disrespectful to ask a question, and then, when you don't like the answer, to say basically, "well, your Church can't be true then, because I don't like your answer." Especially considering your "...with deep respect" comment earlier.

 

[Matrona]

I think what you're seeing here, and I don't mean to be rude, is the end result of a contraception culture. Children aren't seen as blessings from God, but parasites that consume resources you want to spend on a fancy new TV set. It's just really sad to see how some people think about other human beings.

I really don't think it's appropriate for you or anyone else to judge someone else's motivations for not wanting children. Just because someone doesn't want children doesn't mean he or she sees them as "parasites" or that the person is some kind of Epicurean or hedonist. Some married people have perfectly godly reasons for not having kids.