originally posted by JJWhite
The point remains that Ishmael had nothing to do with Arabia, except for perhaps some of his descendants who most likely migrated there upon leaving the area that Ishmael dwelt in. He and his wife were Egyptian and settled slightly east of Egypt and below modern Beersheba, Israel (once the Southern Border of the Kingdom of Judah) and lived there. That is why I pointed out to you about the grave of the patriarchs, whom Abraham purchased as a burial for his family and descendants (Machpelah). It is located somewhere in the vicinity of Hebron, which is nowhere near where Mohammad lived and traveled. There are several references in the Bible that show that Ishmael traveled to meet Isaac and Abraham on occasion. He couldn't have done that if he was far down in Mecca or Medina while they were in the vicinity of Jerusalem, where they lived and died.
OK. But Ishmael was not an Arab as you seem to imply from a couple of posts before. Perhaps, I misunderstood you. His children were not Arabs either. Like I said, it is possible that some of his children or grand children may have married Arabs and moved out from Egypt and Canaan which occupies most of what we call ancient Israel.
It is far more likely that Mohammad descended from other branches of Arabs other than what you attribute through Ishmael. As I stated before, Arabs existed well before Abraham was born. Ishmael, by not being Arab, is less likely to have his progeny mixing with Arabs and being considered Arabic pedigree several generations later.
Do you have any literature that I could read that may help me to verify your quote?
OK. I was just mentioning that those things are part of the Biblical account. If you have the time, it would be good for you to read the Biblical narratives concerning these things. It would help you to better understand what I am saying.
I wish I knew books in English that put the whole story together... maybe one of the translated biographies of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has some information, though they don't always rely on the most authentic sources.
What I know we have is reference in the Qur'aan to Abraham visiting Ishmael in Makkah and the both building the Ka'bah together. To my knowledge, Abraham made a few trips to visit his son.
I've read the account in Genesis, but the thing is, according to Genesis, Ishmael and Hagar weren't sent off until Isaac was born, which would make Ishmael around 13 or 14, I assume? Yet there are a couple places in there that COULD be understood that Hagar carries the boy, though I've seen other interpretations. Genesis also seems to indicate that Abraham just sent them off.
We have a slightly different story. We have that Abraham TOOK Hagar and Ishmael all the way to Makkah HIMSELF when Ishmael was still a baby. He then left them there, and Hagar asked, 'Did God command you to do this?' and he replied 'yes' so she said, 'Then He will not let us be lost.' (As in He'll take care of us.) Abraham (pbuh) then said, according to the Qur'aan, O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House in order, O our Lord, that they may perform Prayer. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allaah) provide them with fruits so that they may give thanks. Note that the Structure of the Ka'bah was not up at that time to my knowledge, but that this was Holy land. Then, I'm sure you're familiar with the Islamic story of how the baby began to cry because their water had run out (my understanding is that she was getting dehydrated and could no longer nurse him) and she ran between the mounts of Safa and Marwa to look for help. On the seventh leg of the run, Ishmael, who's still kicking and screaming, hits the ground with his foot and water starts to appear and kept on flowing out. (And Angel Gabriel appears also.) The water wouldn't stop coming out, and Hagar said, 'Zam' or 'Zum', which is supposed to mean stop, or something like that, in a language she spoke, and the well was then called 'Zam Zam'. She also put sand and rocks around it. One hadith mentions that had Hagar not hurried to sustain the water, it would have been a running stream. Then, the tribe of Jurhum (an Arab tribe.. so as you say Arabs were already existent before Ishmael) came saw Hagar by the water source and asked her if they could settle there.
Besides the age factor, which I cannot reconcile between the Biblical version and version found in the hadith (If I remember correctly, all of what I mentioned so far is in Bukhari's hadith collection, but some are quotes he included from Ibn 'Abbaas, Muhammad's cousin), the rest of the two stories perhaps could all be accurate if one knew the how to fill in the blanks.
We have hadith saying that Abraham once went to visit Ishmael, and only his wife was home. She complained a lot and so Abraham told her to to tell Ishmael (who was not home) to change the doorstep to his home. When Ishmael returned, the wife told him his father's message and Ishmael understood that his father was telling him that the lady was not a good wife and that he should divorce her, so he did and took her back to her family. Years later, Abraham again visits Ishmael and this wife is a content person that thanks God instead of complaining about everything, and Abraham tells her to tell Ishmael (whose not around again) to keep his doorstep, which when Ishmael hears understands that his father approves of his wife. Once Ray told me that he'd read a similar story in a non-Islaamic source. Ray, you around? Where did you read that?
Perhaps, the first wife was Egyptian and the second wife was Arab?
I'm tired now... I have to look for a something scholarly for you instead of me just rambling. I also have to learn to focus.. I keep telling myself and others that I have to look into this or that more and then get caught up in new discussions and forget all the other things I wanted to look up. lol.
, all Arabs other than the tribe of Jurhum (which Ishmael married into) are descendants of Abraham. 
