Original Sin?

[Ken Rank]

Yeshua reversed what Adam did.

Yes, I know. I am simply saying that I don't buy that we died spiritually when Adam sinned. I see the "wages of sin" as being a physical death. I don't think Adam was created to die, I think his death was the result of sin and now we are born with a clock ticking that wouldn't have been ticking had he never sinned. This is the point of Yeshua... he didn't sin... he physically died but the grave couldn't contain him because he was perfect... without sin. See... these are physical things... he DID DIE not spiritually but physically and then resurrected and now we might taste death, but it has lost it's sting because of the promise of life he gives us.

 

[Ken Rank]

Are you saying that Paul was in error when he wrote this?:

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:23).​

No, I am saying Paul didn't write in English.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, I am saying Paul didn't write in English.

So are you saying that Paul's words were not translated correctly?

 

[Ken Rank]

So are you saying that Paul's words were not translated correctly?

No, I am saying the understanding on this begins in Hebrew, over 1/3rd of the NT is a direct quote or an inference from the OT. So if Genesis says plainly and simply that God made a body, breathed into it and it BECAME a living soul... then I would take that as the basis for understanding. The NT won't contradict that, it might add to it, reveal something deeper within it... but not contradict it. The idea of a "body, soul and spirit" being a human is how the Greeks explained this. The Hebrews don't see three aspects, they see two that become a third. Do you see the difference? It isn't Paul's words that are in question, it is how the Greek tries to relay a Hebraic concept.

 

[Marvin Knox]

Yes, I do, actually.

Show me the scriptures please.

He did become born again, but it was after Jesus' death.

Who said otherwise? Certainly I wasn't the one.

But, again, please do show me from the scriptures where he could not have been born again before that - just so we don't go beyond what is written.

Thanks!

 

[Greg J.]

He answered: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’’” (Luke 10:27, 1984 NIV)

Does not mean a human is comprised of three or four parts.

 

[Jezmeyah]

I guess you are one who says guns kill people.

If you searched and found my posts in the new rifle and guns forum, then you might have some truth to your wild guess. As it is, I have nothing to do with fire arms or the politics of them. So you aimed, you fired, you went way off target.

I talk what the Bible talks about. There's no guns in the Bible.

You however are apparently familiar with something of their jargon, so I'm thinking that you have somehow been exposed to it.

You probably think Remington created evil.

Who or what is Remington? I have no idea what that is about.

Are you having fun using your faulty imagination concerning me?

 

[Jezmeyah]

God never has and never will create evil, and from a human perspective, is incapable doing so.

I am not taking the position that God is evil,.. many times a day I praise the Lord in reminding myself that He is good and His mercy endures forever. I say it with utmost respect in honor of His lovingkindness and grace.

And yet.. I have read the quote from God Himself saying "I create evil".

If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. (2 Timothy 2:13, 1984 NASB)

Certainly God is faithful, I do whole heartedly agree with that and I'm thankful to God for it.

Evil can only be created out of the nature of the one who did the creating, and doing so makes that one a father of evil—pretty much the most incorrect label possible to suggest belongs to God.

What am I to say? That you have convinced me? That there isn't really a verse of scripture that God create(s/ed) evil?
Am I to say that it was all a mistake I made in reading a scripture? Am I to decide that it was a trick of the devil to have me believe that God is somehow evil?

Thank you for your kindness in posting to me.

I will drop this line of discussion and move on to something else.

 

[EmSw]

If you searched and found my posts in the new rifle and guns forum, then you might have some truth to your wild guess. As it is, I have nothing to do with fire arms or the politics of them. So you aimed, you fired, you went way off target.

No, I am not going to search for your posts. If you can't answer here, then so be it.

If you have nothing to do with firearms, why are you in a 'rifle and guns' forum?

And no, I didn't aim and fire, I just wanted your opinion.

I talk what the Bible talks about. There's no guns in the Bible.

Then why are you in a 'rifle and guns' forum?

You however are apparently familiar with something of their jargon, so I'm thinking that you have somehow been exposed to it.

What, gun jargon?

Who or what is Remington? I have no idea what that is about.

Are you having fun using your faulty imagination concerning me?

You are in a 'rifle and guns' forum, and you don't know what Remington is? Maybe you should leave that forum and find one you are familiar with.

Why is my imagination faulty? Is this from your faulty perception?

BTW, evil cannot come from good. Evil only comes from evil.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It isn't Paul's words that are in question, it is how the Greek tries to relay a Hebraic concept.

But you do question Paul's words here:

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:23).
​

According to you what is written there is incorrect.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

And yet.. I have read the quote from God Himself saying "I create evil".

I think this is the better translation of the verse of which you speak:

"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’" (Isa.45:7; NKJV).​

 

[EmSw]

I think this is the better translation of the verse of which you speak:

"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’" (Isa.45:7; NKJV).​

You are correct Jerry. If you read the 16th verse, it talks about being ashamed, confounded, and confused.

 

[Jezmeyah]

No, I am not going to search for your posts.

Yes it would be futile because there aren't any there. I did say that IF I had posted there, you could have support for your assumptions that I know anything about rifles and guns.

If you can't answer here, then so be it.

I have answered here. But, if you aren't aware of it, then so be it.

If you have nothing to do with firearms, why are you in a 'rifle and guns' forum?

Why are you asking me if I'm on a rifle and guns forum? How could I be when I've said that I've not had anything to do with any firearms!

And no, I didn't aim and fire, I just wanted your opinion.

Why? when you seem to just make everything up concerning me anyway.

What, gun jargon?

How would you know the phrase "Guns kill people" if you didn't read a thread discussion on it, or discuss on such a thread?

Me, I read the phrase while scanning over a politics thread once. Didn't join in the discussion though.

You are in a 'rifle and guns' forum, and you don't know what Remington is?

I'm not in the rifle and guns forum now and I have not been in one. And no I don't know what Remington is. You must know of it though.

The only Remington I know anything of is the 1980's detective show Remington Steele. That's the extent of my vast knowledge about any Remingtons.

Maybe you should leave that forum and find one you are familiar with.

In order to leave it, I would have to have been there first. I haven't.

Why is my imagination faulty? Is this from your faulty perception?

You've made several big erroneous assumptions concerning me from the first post you've posted. It takes imagination to come up those while disregarding what I tell you.

BTW, evil cannot come from good. Evil only comes from evil.

Yes. Jesus' teaching of the bad tree that produces bad fruit points that out.

 

[Jezmeyah]

I think this is the better translation of the verse of which you speak:

"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.’" (Isa.45:7; NKJV).​

Okay, thank you. That helps me alittle. Now I'll be doing some scripture search concerning the calamities that God has created and hope to figure out why He does it.

 

[Jezmeyah]

Emsw- Our discussion has gone far afield of the actual topic of this thread, so this is as good a place as any to end the discussion on salvation that we weren't having. All I can say is that it's been.. interesting.

 

[Ken Rank]

But you do question Paul's words here:

"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Thess.5:23).
​

According to you what is written there is incorrect.

For about the 4th time (respectfully ) I don't agree with the translation. As I said, Genesis is very plain, very simple, and very clear. God formed a body, breathed into it, and it BECAME a living soul. Do you disagree with that?

 

[Ron Gurley]

God breathed into the body and it became a living spirit

 

[Ron Gurley]

For the three parts of man, see 1 Thessalonians last five verses: body, soul, spirit

 

[Ron Gurley]

0P: original sin? No! This is a false doctrine .

 

[Human Sacrifice]

God didn't have to live my life as a man. Life is not clear to one without his Father being God.