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Original Sin

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Emkay

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Chris Green said:
I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

According to the Answers In Genesis article Why is there death and suffering? by Ken Ham and Jonathan Sarfati, we read that:

When Adam rebelled against God, in effect he was saying that he wanted life without God. He wanted to decide truth for himself, independent of God. Now the Bible tells us that Adam was the head of the human race, representing each one of us, who are his descendants. Paul says in Romans 5:12–19 that we sin ‘in Adam,’

God had to judge Adam’s sin with death. He had already warned Adam that if he sinned, he would ‘surely die.’ After Adam’s Fall, he and all his descendants forfeited the right to live.

The Bible makes it clear that death is the penalty for
after the likeness of Adam. In other words, we have the same problem Adam had. When Adam rebelled against God, all human beings, represented by Adam, effectively said that they wanted life without God.our sin, not just the sin of Adam. If you accept the Bible’s account of history, then our sins—not just the sins of ‘the other guy’—are responsible for all the death and suffering in the world! In other words, it is really our fault that the world is the way it is. No-one is really ‘innocent.’

Also, in Genesis 5 we read:
When God created human beings, He made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female and blessed them. And when they were created, He called them "human beings." When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son he named Seth. (Genesis 5:1-3).

This is just something that I've noted, originally man was made in the perfect image of God. However, Adam's son named Seth was not in God's likeness, but he was in Adam's likeness, in Adam's own image. What was Adam's likeness or image? A fallen and sin marred one. And so, I believe, that we are now no longer in God's once perfect image, rather the sin marred image of Adam.

This is just something that I noted, it may be wrong, however.
 
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qh93536

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JonF said:
You are misusing the word fallacy, you mean unsound. But you do commit a fallacy of universality in your reasoning.

OK, How's FALSE BELIEF?

So it is your view that salvation is solely dependant on your will?

What I have been talking about has nothing to do with salvation. What makes you ask that? What I am talking about is rebuking your flesh and developing a spiritual relationship with God.

This is a straw man. We all agree that you need to give yourself to God but the issue of debate is the mechanics behind that giving yourself.

OK, I am listening......How do you give yourself to God??
 
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qh93536

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JonF said:
Through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Here is how you give yourself to God if you really want it to mean something:

Most Christians, at some time in their life, give themselves to God. They will say something like: “Lord, I give you myself for your Holy use”. The problem is that, after that, most of them sit and wait for the Lord to call them or move in their lives. But in truth, it is a standoff of sorts. They are waiting for God to move and God is waiting for them to move. So what does that mean? What it means is that they have not really given themselves to God at all, but instead have made themselves available to him for use at a later date.

That is not what God wants. God wants a relationship with you now and he wants all of you. He will never take all of you. In other words, he will never take all of your time unless you choose to freely give it to him. But he requires the commitment. Many Christians hold back because they believe that it is impossible or impractical to give themselves completely to him. They believe that they will need to quit their jobs and follow Him. They believe that they will need to leave their family and friends and follow him. That is not what God wants at all. He doesn’t want you to quit your job. He wants you to take him to the job with you. He doesn’t want you to leave your family and friends. He wants you to share him with your family and friends. He wants to share your life with you and he wants to be with you at all times. What that means is that he wants you to be aware of him and thinking of him and talking to him ALL of the time.

You know how you act in church? Good and loving, the concerned and kind Christian. Right? That is the way he wants you to act all of the time. Like you are in church.
You can not give yourself to God and then wear your Sunday hat on Sunday and your work-day hat on work days. You need to wear your Sunday hat every day, and that is how you take God to work with you.

So, how do we give ourselves completely to God? What will it take to make it happen? You need to sit down and pray to him and make some commitments:
1. You need to make Him number one in your life over EVERYTHING ELSE.
2. You need to put his needs, his wants, above yours.
3. You need to make a commitment to live to be a blessing to him. That means ANYTIME you see an opportunity to bless God you jump on it and do not pass it up.
4. You need to make a commitment to tell him that you love him every time you think about him.
5. You need to talk to him OFTEN throughout your day. You don’t need to pray to talk to him. Just talk to him like he is standing next to you. When it is not convenient to talk to him vocally, talk to him mentally. HE WANTS TO SHARE YOUR LIFE! Be his friend, be his loving child. He is always with you so don’t ignore him, don’t neglect him.

“Seek ye first The Kingdom of God…” If you do this, he will take care of everything else. Make him truly number one today. Trust him and love him.
 
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JonF

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qh93536 said:
That is very basic. What do you do? What do you do both spiritually and physically?
even if we ignore your fallacy of plurium interrogationum, you are ambiguous on the word “give”. Do you mean “Give yourself to God” as in live a God centered life, strive for obedience, or is this a reference to salvation?
 
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Chris Green

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JonF said:
A lot of people struggle with this. I think it’s from a lack of understanding that there are more forms of responsibility than personal responsibility. For example if a mother and father fail at their finances and they lose their house, why do the kids lose their home too? If a country’s prime minister declares war unjustly and then their own country gets invaded as a result, why do the citizens suffer? If a community has bad leaders and they squander their money on unimportant things, why do the citizens reap the consequences? When Adam and Eve sinned they were representing humanity as a whole at that point, this is why their sins affected humanity as a whole. Just like our mother and father represented the family as a whole, or the prime minister represented his country or the community leaders represented their community. Is this unfortunate? Of course. Is it fair, yup.


That helps a lot, thank you.

I think the war analogy is a great one.
 
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BrotherDave

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Adam’s sin affected everyone for all time because his sin was so terrible that man's very nature was corrupted and disobedience to God became normative. We are estranged from the womb (Psalm 58:3- 11, Ps 51:5). The fact that man's very nature became corrupt did not diminish his accountability to God for his sins. Right up to the present day, man continues to be answerable to God for his actions because man is still created in the image of God, regardless of how shattered that image may be.

As humans created in the likeness of God, we should be living entirely to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:12). But, the human race has rebelled against God and is living to the praise of themselves rather than of God. They have turned the whole thing upside down. Men are the source of the problem for which the gospel is the solution.

One important message of Genesis is the failure of men when they act independently from God. Adam was originally perfect in a perfect environment. However, he was also created to be dependent upon God. Adam and his descendants were, and always have been, dependent upon God (Prov. 16:9, Jer. 10:23, Acts 17:28). When Adam was offered the forbidden fruit by Eve, he should have cried out to God for strength to remain obedient. Adam, at that moment, should have called upon God for wisdom and courage to help his poor wife. But Adam chose death! As a result mankind was sentenced to death, physical death and spiritual death. Spiritual death is eternal separation from God; that is, for his disobedience, man will eternally suffer God's wrath in hell. The impact of man's initial sin was so terrible that man's very nature was corrupted and disobedience to God became normative. Like an adulterer who senselessly and stupidly repeatedly returns to the harlot, so man continues to disobey God. Adam's sin was so far-reaching that the whole human race, which issued from Adam and of whom Adam was head, remains in this awful corruption (Romans 5:12) Because of man's enmity toward God, the awful curse of God's wrath continues to rest on him. Satan vanquished man in the Garden of Eden, and man became a slave in the dominion of sin and spiritual darkness, which is ruled by Satan. At the judgment, man must render an account of all his works to God. Matthew 12:36, Romans 2:5-6, Romans 14:10b-12, II Corinthians 5:10. God repeatedly teaches in the Bible that man must answer for his sins. (Luke 13:34, Matthew 21:34-41 and 23:29-30, Revelation 20:12-15).

God is not thwarted in His desire to have a redeemed people. God reaches down into the mire and misery of human sin to save a people for Himself (John 6:37). God will take for Himself as many people as He wants to take, and He will take precisely those people whom He wants to take; He is the Redeemer (Ezekiel 34:11-16.) For those whom God saves, He must pay the penalty that is required by His perfect justice. And so Jesus became sin. He took upon Himself the sins of all those whom God, in His elective decree, planned to save. Christ died for those people who believe but not one of them believed of his own volition. Only because God inclined their wills and opened their eyes and did save them; did they respond to the Gospel. God's gracious intervention occurs only in the lives of His elect. God irresistibly draws them unto Himself (John 6:37, 44). They were given to Christ by the Father (John 6:37, 39, John 17:9, 20); they were born not of the will of man, but of God (John 1:13).

So, the book of Genesis reveals that a perfect man, acting on his own, will choose death. Man is desperately wicked (Jeremiah 17:9) and dead in his sins (Romans 3:10-20) God, in His sovereign will and mercy, declares in Matthew 16:18, "I will build my church" (Eternal church). It is God's purpose to have a people for Himself even though no one voluntarily chooses to believe in Christ as his Savior. Before the foundation of the earth, God named those whom He would save, and He draws these people to Himself. He opens their spiritual eyes and they become saved from the eternal punishment they deserve.

 
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