Original Sin

[Chris Green]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

 

[rosewaning]

For the same reason why Jesus' suffering of our sins affects everyone for all time...

 

[UMP]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

It was imputed to us from Adam, to all mankind.
When a bear gives birth, it gives birth to a bear, not a tree.
Each species (for lack of a better word) propagates according to who, what he is.
Adam sinned and could only produce sinners of "like" kind.
Hence, the disease or curse of sin was imputed to all of us because we all come from Adam.

 

[MadHermit]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

The consequence of Adam's disobedience was a very real change in his basic nature as a man directly created by God. The death that God warned Adam about was the death of Adam's direct relationship to God, what Paul refers to as the inner man in Ephesians 3:16. Adam was no longer a son of God, he was thrown out of the garden and became an orphan so to speak.

People today are not created in God's image, we are procreated in our parent's image, as decendents of Adam, see Genesis 5:3. As Adam's decendents we inherit his fallen nature. We also are orphans, lost and without a direct relationship with God. This is why we need salvation. Salvation results in being born again, the rebirth of the inner man, the spiritual connection to God. Through salvation we are adopted into God's family, made sons and heirs of His kingdom.

 

[Bubba1301]

C.S. Lewis uses a phrase in his book "Mere Christianity" to describe what Jesus brought to us. He called it a "Good Infection". An infection starts at one place and spreads. It affects the whole body regardless if it is close to the "infection site" or not. I think, in a similar way, the act of disobediance (sin) by Adam (and Eve) brought with it a "bad infection". It started in a small local place and affects the rest of the body.... and considering that they were basically the only people around there was no one else who would then be free of the "infection". Just a few thoughts to ponder.

 

[depthdeception]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

Adam's sin (whether by a historical, individual person, or not) created a relational break between humanity and God. Because of this, our relationally dysfunctional parents pass on this relational dysfunction to us, we to our children, etc. Because the web of relationships is messed up, we grow up messed up.

 

[Rolf Ernst]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin affected everyone for all time...

Everyone who was in Adam--all his children--die because of his sin. That may sound terrible, as you indicate; BUT just as all those in Adam died because of his sin, so everyone who was chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world will certainly, without fail, live because of His righteousness.
The principle in effect is that Adam was the federal representative of all those in him, and Christ is the federal head of all those who were chosen in Him. The principle is the same. All of humanity was, of course, in Adam, but only those who were chosen in Christ were in Him as His children. That is why Isaiah, in 9:6, referred to Christ as the Everlasting Father.

Also, only two men have been federal heads. The first was Adam who brought all his children into death by his sin, and Christ, who brings all His children to life and righteousness because of His sinless perfection. Adam's sin was counted against all his children and Christ's righteousness is counted to the credit of all His children That is why the Bible speaks of the First Adam and the Last Adam. Christ is the last Adam and in another place, He is called the second man; not second in regard to number, of course, but second (and last) in regard to federal headship. Paul explains these things in Romans chapter five, verses 9-21 and in 1 Cor. 15:21,22.

 

[woman.at.the.well]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

it didn't affect everyone for all time thanx to Jesus! But in an attempt to try and answer your question (as I understand it): As sin came through one man (Adam) it is taken away by one Man. That man (who can take away sin) is Christ.

Because Adam and Eve were the first human's and sinned, their seed (us) was "tainted (by sin)" so to speak. So Jesus came along to make it pure again through the shedding of His blood.

 

[Chris Green]

When a bear gives birth, it gives birth to a bear, not a tree.

That doesnt seem to add up tho.

Isnt that like saying if a man loses his arm in an accident then his son will only have one arm too??

 

[Chris Green]

People today are not created in God's image, we are procreated in our parent's image, as decendents of Adam, see Genesis 5:3. As Adam's decendents we inherit his fallen nature. We also are orphans, lost and without a direct relationship with God. This is why we need salvation. Salvation results in being born again, the rebirth of the inner man, the spiritual connection to God. Through salvation we are adopted into God's family, made sons and heirs of His kingdom.

But if we are procreated in our parents image and our parents may be 'saved' Christians, then would that mean that we are generically saved?

(i'm trying to be devils advocate a little bit here so I can really get my head round this)

 

[qh93536]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

It didn't! It is a fallacy and makes absolutely no sense at all.

There is a basic question that we all need to ask. We need to ask it and fully understand the answer. The question is: “Why did God create us? What is our purpose?” Those who truly understand the character of God realize the basis for everything that he does is love. For love is what He is. Every other characteristic that he has is based on the characteristic of love. If you understand that, you must believe that our creation, the reason that He created Adam, was based on love. Our purpose in being here is that we would be Gods loving family, that he would have somebody to love, and somebody to love him. Family and the family relationship are what God is all about and is evident throughout the Bible.

The Bible states that we were, and are, created in Gods image. That is, we are created to be LIKE him. Of course, we can not be everything that he is, but we can possess his basic character. And his basic character is one of love, goodness, kindness, mercy, patience, tolerance, understanding and joy. His will must be evident to those who profess to know him. If we were created to be like him, then it is his will that we also possess his character.

There is a belief that is prominent in the Christian community that we are born with a sinful nature. It goes beyond that to say that we actually inherit the sin of Adam. There is another belief that works hand-in-hand with the previous two that we are not worthy to have a relationship with God the Father, that we are not worthy to even approach Him.
The truth is that sinfulness, or evilness, or wickedness are not inherited traits. They are not genetic. Ask any psychologist. Ask any psychiatrist. Ask any scientist who studies and researches genetic science. They will all tell you that behaviors are not inherited, but instead, are learned. Sinfulness is something that is learned during our childhood. It is a product of the environment that surrounds us while we grow up. Think about it: If a child grew up in an environment where there was no sin, that child would grow up to be sinless. He would not remain that way, because as soon as he was exposed to the world, which is full of sin, that influence would contaminate his sinless character. Another thing to consider is that God would not continue to create something with the defect of a sinful nature.

So, here it is: We were created to be like God. If you believe that we truly are his children, you can not believe that God would create sinful children.

The problem is that this doctrine of lowness has caused most Christians to dig themselves into a hole. It is a hole where they believe that they belong. They think that they are doomed to this stature due to Adams sin. As they sit in their holes, that remain distant from God. They can neither see nor hear him. As they sit in their holes of deprivation they will say things like: “I am sinful in nature”, “I am evil”, I am not worthy of Gods grace”, “I am not worthy of a relationship with God”. What they say is true, but it is not God, but they themselves who have placed themselves there.
GOD DOES NOT WANT YOU THERE!

Gods will is that you climb out of that hole and clean yourselves up and make yourselves acceptable to him. He wants to have a relationship with you, a relationship of closeness. As long as you stay in that hole and believe that you are not worthy, you WILL NOT BE worthy.

So, how do we become worthy, how do we become acceptable to him? As stated above, we must become like Him. In order to become like Him, it is necessary that we cast aside our flesh and become spiritual in our relationship with him. When we replace our carnality with spirituality, we are listening to the Holy Spirit instead of our animalistic instincts. That is when He can talk to his, for at that time, our spiritual ear is tuned to His spiritual voice. We become one-in-spirit with him.

If you believe that we were meant to be a loving family, then you must believe in a family relationship. A true family relationship is one of closeness, and is based on love and trust. That is what He wants. He can not have a relationship with you while you are sitting in your hole of sinfulness. It is time you climb out now! If you want to bless God in a big way, give him what he wants; you.

 

[Melethiel]

Gods will is that you climb out of that hole and clean yourselves up and make yourselves acceptable to him.

That's rather unorthodox. A better view would be that Christ pulls you out of the hole and cleans you up...

 

[JonF]

A lot of people struggle with this. I think it’s from a lack of understanding that there are more forms of responsibility than personal responsibility. For example if a mother and father fail at their finances and they lose their house, why do the kids lose their home too? If a country’s prime minister declares war unjustly and then their own country gets invaded as a result, why do the citizens suffer? If a community has bad leaders and they squander their money on unimportant things, why do the citizens reap the consequences? When Adam and Eve sinned they were representing humanity as a whole at that point, this is why their sins affected humanity as a whole. Just like our mother and father represented the family as a whole, or the prime minister represented his country or the community leaders represented their community. Is this unfortunate? Of course. Is it fair, yup.

 

[qh93536]

That's rather unorthodox. A better view would be that Christ pulls you out of the hole and cleans you up...
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That is a view, but also a fallacy.

 

[Melethiel]

Think about it: If a child grew up in an environment where there was no sin, that child would grow up to be sinless.

You really think so? I think otherwise.

That is a view, but also a fallacy.

I would rather attribute more to Christ than to think too highly of myself. Your view is rather unscriptural. The Scriptures resound with cries of "Thanks be to God", not "thanks be to myself for being smart enough to pull myself out of the pit".

 

[JonF]

That is a view, but also a fallacy.

and what mode of reasoning in this view is invalid?

 

[qh93536]

You really think so? [/size][/font][/color][/b]I think otherwise.



I would rather attribute more to Christ than to think too highly of myself. Your view is rather unscriptural. The Scriptures resound with cries of "Thanks be to God", not "thanks be to myself for being smart enough to pull myself out of the pit".

It doesn't take intellegence to pull yourself out of that hole. It takes love. You have to want to do it for HIM, not yourself.

 

[qh93536]

and what mode of reasoning in this view is invalid?

Because Christ is not going to pull you out of that hole and clean you up. If that was the case, everybody would have already rebuked their carnality and would be in a spiritual relationship through the Holy Spirit instead of continueing to listen to their flesh.

It is a decision you need to make on your own. You must accept the fact that God does want you to be like him, sharing his character, and then you need to make the decision to do something about it.

You can not make a decision to be like Jesus and then sit back and wait for it to happen. Thousands have tried and failed. The failed because they retained their carnality and Jesus was not carnal. The only to way to successfully rebuke your flesh is to give yourself to God wholey, 100% mind, body and spirit. And, that is another thing where you can't just say it and sit back and wait for things to happen. Many say that they give themselves to God, but don't really. They still hang on to that last thread of flesh. You must make him number one absolutely over EVERYTHING. You must truely live for him, not just in word, but in deed.

 

[hoser]

I'm struggling to get my head around why Adam's Sin afected everyone for all time...

There is a great article in "This Rock" magazine that talks about original sin and then how it relates to infant Baptism. http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0502fea5.asp

 

[JonF]

Because Christ is not going to pull you out of that hole and clean you up. If that was the case, everybody would have already rebuked their carnality and would be in a spiritual relationship through the Holy Spirit instead of continueing to listen to their flesh.

You are misusing the word fallacy, you mean unsound. But you do commit a fallacy of universality in your reasoning.

It is a decision you need to make on your own. You must accept the fact that God does want you to be like him, sharing his character, and then you need to make the decision to do something about it.

So it is your view that salvation is solely dependant on your will?

You can not make a decision to be like Jesus and then sit back and wait for it to happen. Thousands have tried and failed. The failed because they retained their carnality and Jesus was not carnal. The only to way to successfully rebuke your flesh is to give yourself to God wholey, 100% mind, body and spirit. And, that is another thing where you can't just say it and sit back and wait for things to happen. Many say that they give themselves to God, but don't really. They still hang on to that last thread of flesh. You must make him number one absolutely over EVERYTHING. You must truely live for him, not just in word, but in deed.

This is a straw man. We all agree that you need to give yourself to God but the issue of debate is the mechanics behind that giving yourself.