original sin? what is it?

[w00dy]

help me out here please - whats original sin? is it a concept that was thought up after jesus, like limbo?
or is it in the bible from the begining?

 

[BalaamsAss51]

Hello Woody.

Try this link from the Lutheran Clycopedia

http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=s&word=SIN.ORIGINAL

Then from the Roman Catholic New Advent site

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11312a.htm

I've got more if you wish.

Pax

 

[w00dy]

wow thanks balaamsass51, that really makes alot of sense

"Original sin is not an activity but a quality, a state, an inherent condition"

lol i thought it was like doing a sin before anybody else did.

so its not a prodestent concept then?
i really like that luthern idea, thank you very much

 

[BalaamsAss51]

wow thanks balaamsass51, that really makes alot of sense

"Original sin is not an activity but a quality, a state, an inherent condition"

lol i thought it was like doing a sin before anybody else did.

so its not a prodestent concept then?
i really like that luthern idea, thank you very much

Yes! You have picked out a great quotation from those readings. If only more people could understand that the concept of original sin is not an activity but a quality, state or condition.

So many groups/church bodies/teachers start from the presumption that man is "good" and that all it takes for man to get back into a righteous relationship with God (to be saved) is either for man to a) "do" something to regain that relationship or b) have God give them some kind of push after which they again may "do" something.

When one recognizes the fact that we are no longer "good" (like the original humans in the garden were), you realize that it is impossible for us to get back into that right relationship with God unless God does the whole thing for us. Hence He sent His Son.

Lutherans say that we cannot "by our own reason or strength" find our way back to God. It is only after we hear God's Word that the Holy Spirit is able to work in us. And the work He does is based on the justification won for us on Calvary. Then and only then may we be given (free gift) faith. Then and only then may we "do" things which are pleasing to God.

Now, after one understands original sin, one comes to the concept of actual sin. But if you are like me, that's no trouble to understand. No, I take that back, most groups/churches/teachers have that wrong too - once original sin is forgotten/mis-taught other errors follow.

Anyway, glad you liked the references and that they were helpful.

Pax

 

[deac0n]

i always understood it to mean what Adam and Eve did in the garden of Eden (eating the apple from the tree of the knowledge of Good and Evil).

because of that sin all of mankind was cursed, which is what required Jesus to be born of a virgin. if he was born of the seed of man (sperm + egg = baby) he would fall under the curse and thus have no authority to be our saviour. if she was not a virgin, then his origin could be in dispute (not that it isn't to begin with, lol).

 

[holdon]

help me out here please - whats original sin? is it a concept that was thought up after jesus, like limbo?
or is it in the bible from the begining?

No, it's not in the bible.

 

[DeaconDean]

No, it's not in the bible.

I disagree.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" -Rom.5:12

​

http://www.reformed.org.za/english/literature/Herald/herald4.htm​

 

[holdon]

I disagree.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" -Rom.5:12

http://www.reformed.org.za/english/literature/Herald/herald4.htm​

The term "original sin" is not in the bible. Now, if you mean by "original sin" the first sin by man, that's fine. Or if you mean that depraved nature that all inherited when
Adam started begetting in his own likeness, (Gen 5:3), that's ok.

But often times the term gets used to justify baptismal regeneration and the like. Or the Virgin Mary not be tainted by it, etc. etc.. It becomes a mess.

 

[Bobber]

The term "original sin" is not in the bible. Now, if you mean by "original sin" the first sin by man, that's fine. Or if you mean that depraved nature that all inherited when
Adam started begetting in his own likeness, (Gen 5:3), that's ok.

But often times the term gets used to justify baptismal regeneration and the like. Or the Virgin Mary not be tainted by it, etc. etc.. It becomes a mess.

That's kind of like many other terms that Christians use....folks ask if I believe in inner healing....all depends on what they mean by the term....there's alot of ways that people teach about that subject so people need to define what they mean by some of the terms....

 

[OldWiseGuy]

The statement that "by one man sin entered the world" indicates the preexistance of sin.

Man was the vessel (chamberpot) that brought sin, originally fashioned by God, and imputed to Lucifer, into the human family, as preordained by God. Thus man is a physical representation of sin.

A good way to illustrate this is:

Man isn't a thief because he steals; He steals because he is a thief. (From a great Adrian Rogers sermon.)

 

[armothe]

Man isn't a thief because he steals; He steals because he is a thief. (From a great Adrian Rogers sermon.)

Absolutely disagree. Adrian Rogers has it backwards.

It is impossible to be a thief unless one first steals something.

It is impossible to be a murderer unless one first murders someone.

-A

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Absolutely disagree. Adrian Rogers has it backwards.

It is impossible to be a thief unless one first steals something.

It is impossible to be a murderer unless one first murders someone.

-A

God called Satan "a murderer from the beginning", even though Satan hadn't killed anyone. In another place God reveals that sin is first conceived in the heart, before it is acted upon. The last five commandments reveal this as well. Covetness (or anger, hate, jealousy etc.) starts in the mind, then is acted upon literally. Mr. Rogers (God rest his recently departed soul), did have it right.

 

[armothe]

James 1:14-15 - But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

Simple notions or thoughts are categorized as temptation and are not yet manifested as sin (but will most likely lead to sin)

Satan wasn't a human being, he was an agent of God specifically designed to tempt man. You make the error of assigning attributes of the angels/messengers/satan to mankind when in reality they are totally two different classes (unless you are LDS persuasion)

The last five commandments are:
Honor your father and your mother
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor

To me it seems pretty difficult to break these commandments by simply thinking about breaking them. How does one bear false witness against his/her neighbor by just thinking about doing it. No, actions are required for sin to fully manifest itself.

Can I claim to be an artist if I've never created art?
Can I claim to be a scuba diver if I've never done it?
In the same way a person isn't considered a thief until they thieve something.

-A

God called Satan "a murderer from the beginning", even though Satan hadn't killed anyone. In another place God reveals that sin is first conceived in the heart, before it is acted upon. The last five commandments reveal this as well. Covetness (or anger, hate, jealousy etc.) starts in the mind, then is acted upon literally. Mr. Rogers (God rest his recently departed soul), did have it right.

 

[Philip]

Absolutely disagree. Adrian Rogers has it backwards.

Correct. Rogers was wrong.

To me it seems pretty difficult to break these commandments by simply thinking about breaking them. How does one bear false witness against his/her neighbor by just thinking about doing it. No, actions are required for sin to fully manifest itself.

Here I must disagree. Consider:

Matthew 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.​

 

[armothe]

I sensed someone would bring this verse up.
Question: Does looking (lustfully) involve an action?

Here I must disagree. Consider:Matthew 5:27-28 "You have heard that it was said, 'You shall not commit adultery.' But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

-A

 

[w00dy]

it means if you condone something, like stealing or murder then you are as guilty as the one who perpertrates the crime. how then are any of us not guilty?

so you got to say yes lord im guilty please forgive me. which he does and you are free of that sin. so that means that with the death of jesus ment the death of original sin because the lord is the giver of eternal life.
does that make any sense? im kinda working it out for myself as i go along