Original Sin and the Knowledge of Good & Evil

[AuburnSky]

Hi Folks,
So I've been thinking:
How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?
One thought that came to mind is that people can sin without knowing it, and it's still sin. But I'm wondering if there's more to it than that, since the consequences were so severe.
Any thoughts?

(I tried to post this in the correct place, but mods, feel free to move it if necessary)

 

[fhansen]

Hi Folks,
So I've been thinking:
How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?
One thought that came to mind is that people can sin without knowing it, and it's still sin. But I'm wondering if there's more to it than that, since the consequences were so severe.
Any thoughts?

(I tried to post this in the correct place, but mods, feel free to move it if necessary)

It's been said that God, knowing the beginning from the end, made His creation in a "state of journeying" towards perfection. If Adam couldn't or wouldn't accept that God's word or command, the only command He gave Adam, flowed from flawless wisdom, then he would have to learn that fact for himself. Evil is essentially that which is opposed to and separates itself from God. In this life we're effectively apart from Him, and we experience-we literally know- good and evil here: the good inherent in creation but also evil: the effects of separation from God and His perfect will in all things. This separation came about as a result of the abuse of a good gift, the gift of free will.

God deemed that creation would nevertheless be worth creating, presumably intending to bring an even greater good out of the evil which He doesn't directly cause but allows for a time, for His purpose of bringing creation into alignment with His will as we freely turn back to Him, with His help but never with force. This permitting or allowance of the possibility of evil is really the essence of our free will.

So with the knowledge of good and evil, combined with revelation and grace, man has the option of coming to recognize that the world he lives in, with all the enticements it offers, separated from the direct, perfect control of the Master, is a pigsty relatively speaking. And with this understanding we may gain the wisdom ourselves to run, like the Prodigal, back to the Good alone, back to the Father who's always been waiting with open arms, a fact Jesus came to prove to us.

 

[pshun2404]

Hi Folks,
So I've been thinking:
How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?
One thought that came to mind is that people can sin without knowing it, and it's still sin. But I'm wondering if there's more to it than that, since the consequences were so severe.
Any thoughts?

(I tried to post this in the correct place, but mods, feel free to move it if necessary)

The fatherly God who they knew and had provided all for them and blessed them was warning them out of love...He was not threatening them with a foreboding punishment but revealing to them the consequence...so when they partook (questioned His word, thought it untrue, questioned His motives and preferred to be like a god as a lord unto their self deciding for their self what was good or what was evil...) the became separated from the presence of God and all that He would have provided in the perfect world where He is Lord and where we could enjoy the dominion (as under lords) that He had intended for us...but when we submitted or yielded to the wiles of the Serpent (this line of reasoning that disregards the Lords word and causes us to do what is right in our own eyes) this made him our lord,,,we gave him the deed to the ranch...we followed his advice and believed his words...

The "punishment" was now having to get ones bread by the sweat of ones brow, pain in childbirth, and that the woman would be ruled over by men...

The separation from fellowship with God and all He had intended...and the spiritual death...these were the pre-warned consequences...He loved them just like when mom or dad said "Thou shalt not run out into the busy traffic for in the day thou doest thou shalt surely die"...

Just some thoughts

Paul

 

[SalvationAtYourFingertips]

It wasn't a sin. The Bible says that sin entered the world after they ate from the apple. It was impossible for them to sin! But after they ate from the apple they would not turn away from their sin and that's why they got kicked out of the garden.

 

[elopez]

How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?

I don't think we should assume the fruit contained knowledge of good and evil. There is no text in the Bible that says such. That said I don't think it was the fruit itself that brought about knowledge of morality, rather I think A&E already had knowledge of morality, though I divide knowledge into two separate categories; experiential and intellectual. Experiential knowledge is knowledge derived from experience, so if we taste something new for the first time we "know" what it taste like. See, we could have all the intellectual knowledge - knowledge which is derived from books, teachers and professors, etc - about what we just tasted, but without experiencing it we don't really know what it is.

So A&E had intellectual knowledge of morality, that is, they understood that eating from the tree was wrong because God told them it was wrong and they understood that. Though, they did not "know" it was wrong until they experienced sin.

 

[AuburnSky]

Hey elopez
Though it's possible that the fruit did not contain the knowledge, and (I suppose) it's possible that they already knew good & evil intellectually before experiencing both, Genesis 3:22 says "And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever.”
Surely since, according to God, eating from the tree of life would cause them to live forever, it's reasonable to think that eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil gave them.. well, exactly what the label says.
But! There may be something to your idea about them having referential knowledge of good vs. evil based on what God who is good told them (even while they had not yet experienced it) Since without having eaten of the tree of life, we all have some referential knowledge of everlasting life!! ooo! Very cool!

 

[Johnnz]

Doing something apart from God's intent is what any sin is about. It's not contravening some set of rules, but rather chosing something that embraces life instead of something the results in loss (death).

John
NZ

 

[Emmy]

Dear AuburnSky. In Genesis God told Adam not to eat of the tree of Knowledge: if they did, they would surly die. They were ignoring God`s Loving advice, and rather believed a lying Serpent. God is Love, and God wants our love. I say this with love, AuburnSky. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[A posse ad esse]

We all heard the story. It was never an apple. So what was it? Some type of drug maybe? Is this blasphemy to think this? God put two trees. Tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What if the fruit was a type of drug that unlocked the full potential of knowing good and evil and therefore allowing Adam and Eve realizing they were naked. But i think God put those trees to make a point on free will. Choose everlasting life or die. It was like an experiment. How can we have true free will if Eden was so perfect humans could not disobey therefore not have a choice to rebel. And yet we rebelled and forever cutting off the spiritual connection between god forever damning us to a life of sin and leaving us in search for salvation. Is that why god sent the cherub to guard the tree of life?? What if it was satans plan to get humans to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then make Adam and Eve eat the tree of life so they can undo what they did which would leave humanity doomed forever regardless of Christ ??? So i believe that we have free will and there is no predestination. God doesn't know what path your going to take he only knows how ur path will be and how it will end up . Thats why there was the tree of life and tree of knowledge .....the fruit was a psychoactive drug since it gave humans knowledge of being cognitive of the cognitive. Ppl say drugs are from the earth and God created weed for example and untampered withtherefore it is good. We need to remebrr that we live in a world that remains disconnected with God and even if we smoke weed it can be damaging i think .... DTM and mushrooms etc we need to be cautious afterall thorns are a result of this original sin so i do believe drugs can open the minds of ppl like jailbreaking iPhones .... Drugs cAn open knowledge and gain enlightment.... But maybe we werent supposed too??? Are we made to stay ignorant like Adam and Eve????

 

[fhansen]

We all heard the story. It was never an apple. So what was it? Some type of drug maybe? Is this blasphemy to think this? God put two trees. Tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. What if the fruit was a type of drug that unlocked the full potential of knowing good and evil and therefore allowing Adam and Eve realizing they were naked. But i think God put those trees to make a point on free will. Choose everlasting life or die. It was like an experiment. How can we have true free will if Eden was so perfect humans could not disobey therefore not have a choice to rebel. And yet we rebelled and forever cutting off the spiritual connection between god forever damning us to a life of sin and leaving us in search for salvation. Is that why god sent the cherub to guard the tree of life?? What if it was satans plan to get humans to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and then make Adam and Eve eat the tree of life so they can undo what they did which would leave humanity doomed forever regardless of Christ ??? So i believe that we have free will and there is no predestination. God doesn't know what path your going to take he only knows how ur path will be and how it will end up . Thats why there was the tree of life and tree of knowledge .....the fruit was a psychoactive drug since it gave humans knowledge of being cognitive of the cognitive. Ppl say drugs are from the earth and God created weed for example and untampered withtherefore it is good. We need to remebrr that we live in a world that remains disconnected with God and even if we smoke weed it can be damaging i think .... DTM and mushrooms etc we need to be cautious afterall thorns are a result of this original sin so i do believe drugs can open the minds of ppl like jailbreaking iPhones .... Drugs cAn open knowledge and gain enlightment.... But maybe we werent supposed too??? Are we made to stay ignorant like Adam and Eve????

In another thread about Adam & Eve and the fall of man some posters are certain that the first sin was a sexual encounter between the two or between Eve and a number of other alternative possible partners. Now we can consider that the sin may've been drug use. Always seems to get down to sex and drugs: the true root of all evil? But that still leaves out rock n' roll. Could that music style be older than Chuck Berry after all? What about 'Sympathy for the Devil'? How old is Mick Jagger really? Makes you wonder.....

 

[Login]

Hi Folks,
So I've been thinking:
How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?
One thought that came to mind is that people can sin without knowing it, and it's still sin. But I'm wondering if there's more to it than that, since the consequences were so severe.
Any thoughts?

(I tried to post this in the correct place, but mods, feel free to move it if necessary)

I see it as allegory AuburnSky - tree of knowledge of good and evil is God's property - hands off!

"Good" is simply the expression of his will - one is inseparable from the other. "Evil" is everything else.

"Eating from the tree of good and evil" is a metaphor for any moral choice we make contrary to the will of God. To continue the allegory even further...as much as God evicted us from the Garden of Eden, we have evicted ourselves. Our propensity to sin from our fallen nature takes us away from our true selves in the same way the Prodigal son left home.

 

[fhansen]

I see it as allegory AuburnSky - tree of knowledge of good and evil is God's property - hands off!

"Good" is simply the expression of his will - one is inseparable from the other. "Evil" is everything else.

"Eating from the tree of good and evil" is a metaphor for any moral choice we make contrary to the will of God. To continue the allegory even further...as much as God evicted us from the Garden of Eden, we have evicted ourselves. Our propensity to sin from our fallen nature takes us away from our true selves in the same way the Prodigal son left home.

That's a good take on it IMO. I might further add that good and evil became literally known by Adam & Eve the moment they partook of the fruit-because in that very act they had already distanced themselves from God, i.e. evil had transpired and was experienced. All other moral evil (sin) would follow from that disobedience/separation.

 

[jonpy]

I wish it didnt say 'Tree of Knowledge'. I wonder how many children grow up thinking that the reason for all bad things in the world is because man sought knowledge. Not a particularly good lesson to start kids out with IMO, I cant imagine anyone disagreeing with that. Perhaps it was due to the translation or something.

 

[Johnnz]

I wish it didnt say 'Tree of Knowledge'. I wonder how many children grow up thinking that the reason for all bad things in the world is because man sought knowledge. Not a particularly good lesson to start kids out with IMO, I cant imagine anyone disagreeing with that. Perhaps it was due to the translation or something.

Moderns see knowledge as 'facts', 'information', whereas the ancients valued wisdom, deeply understanding life and its patterns, and saw knowledge as a component of that.

John
NZ

 

[jonpy]

Any of those translations/interpretations, whether modern or ancient is still an unfortunate one to have included as the basis for original sin IMO Perhaps im missing something, perhaps there is another way of looking at it that i have not yet appreciated. Either way it is unfortunate though, as i would wager most children would not recognise it above or beyond how it appears (and i would argue, intended)

 

[Joykins]

I wish it didnt say 'Tree of Knowledge'. I wonder how many children grow up thinking that the reason for all bad things in the world is because man sought knowledge. Not a particularly good lesson to start kids out with IMO, I cant imagine anyone disagreeing with that. Perhaps it was due to the translation or something.

It's the tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, not the Tree of Knowledge.

The Knowledge of Good and Evil might be thought of as a sort of moral sense, not the acquisition of wisdom or knowledge.

 

[juvenissun]

Hi Folks,
So I've been thinking:
How was it a sin for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit? Yeah God told them not to, but how would they know that going against what God said was wrong, without having the knowledge of good & evil?
One thought that came to mind is that people can sin without knowing it, and it's still sin. But I'm wondering if there's more to it than that, since the consequences were so severe.
Any thoughts?

(I tried to post this in the correct place, but mods, feel free to move it if necessary)

There was no sin, neither right or wrong. There was only "disobey".

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm most struck by how the phrase Original Sin has become synonymous with the Law of sin and death, when they are two different things...

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm most struck by how the phrase Original Sin has become synonymous with the Law of sin and death, when they are two different things...

Original Sin, simply stated, suggests that when Adam committed the original sin, he introduced his error into the basic fabric of humanity; and as we inherit Adam's humanity, we inherit it in toto, warts and all.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[bbyrd009]

Original Sin, simply stated, suggests that when Adam committed the original sin, he introduced his error into the basic fabric of humanity; and as we inherit Adam's humanity, we inherit it in toto, warts and all.

-CryptoLutheran

That describes the Law of sin and death. The phrase 'original sin' is not in Scripture. It is the doctrine that divided the Christian church @ the Council of Trent (and we got the short end), only know one knows it now. Ty tho!