Origin of Species (wait, there's more)

[B_shubby]

This is why I believe in what I believe - and why I'm not a christian. Great article and good response. That's what I was thinking as well.

Does it really? You must be reading more into the article than is there. The study found that our DNA is very similar, but that coding differences add up and are what make us so very different with such similar DNA. There's nothing in the article that suggests we a any more or less closely related to Chimpanzees taxnomically than previously thought.



The truth is that we resemble each other in our DNA as well, just that the components work differently in our two species resulting in two vastly different animals from similar components.

You might want to look at this genetic evidence for common descent between chimps and humans.

 

[Larry]

http://smh.com.au/articles/2004/05/26/1085461837622.html

"Our closest relative, the chimpanzee, is not quite as close to us as was thought.

Chimps are likely to have thousands of genes that differ in subtle but important ways to human genes, making it harder than hoped to identify the key bits of DNA responsible for unique human characteristics such as speech and complex thought, new research shows.

"The biological consequences due to the genetic differences [between chimpanzees and humans] are much more complicated than previously speculated," the team concludes in the journal Nature today."

hurray! at last science is looking more closely into the real stuff.
The ultimate result might be shocking.

Hooray!!!

Science doing what it does best.




I like this part best.

But they were surprised to find that there were 68,000 bits of DNA, some of them containing only 30 letters, some up to 54,000 letters long, which had been either gained or lost by the human genome in the 6 million years since our evolutionary pathway diverged from that of chimpanzees.

 

[jameseb]

Hooray!!!

Science doing what it does best.




I like this part best.

Heya Larry... good to see ya back here.

Yes, that was my favorite paragraph too, however, I goofed on my assumption that evolutionists said we descended from chimpanzees. Heh, not up to date on my 'theories' of evolution. Seems they say instead that we both of a common ancestory.

By the way, care for a banana?

 

[Larry]

Heya Larry... good to see ya back here.

Yes, that was my favorite paragraph too, however, I goofed on my assumption that evolutionists said we descended from chimpanzees. Heh, not up to date on my 'theories' of evolution. Seems they say instead that we both of a common ancestory.

By the way, care for a banana?

A banana sounds good!

Not to worry. After some serious study, you won't be bracketing or using quotation marks around the word - theories.

 

[SuzQ]

Just because something evolves, it doesn't mean that it HAS to replace it.
Survival of the fittest is a general idea to apply to evolution, but to claim that ALL things that have evolved HAVE to replace their predecessor is an illogical arguement. It can happen but humans could have also messed up any plans for chimps. Examples to illustrate....

Oy ve, Misty, I was only trying to throw some humor in the discussion, really, I was. You have thoughful & interesting posts on many threads, but you have to let your guard down & be able to have a little chuckle now and then!

 

[SuzQ]

This is why I believe in what I believe - and why I'm not a christian. Great article and good response. That's what I was thinking as well.

Your icon indicates that you are not only a non-Christian, but you don't believe in God as well? Is that right? I know the Christian thing is hard to see and recognize, but you accept the Big Bang and that God doesn't exist?
Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

When I have someone tell me to prove there is a God, I tell them to take a look at groups of people that have been sheltered away from the rest of us - no missionaries had been there before, no access to books or tv. When explorers have stumbled upon South American tribes, Aborigines in Austrailia, Eskimos in Yukon, etc, etc, etc, guess what? They all posses some instinct in them to worship a "god" to which they respect, love, and obey. Even our own Native Americans believe in the Great Spirit. How they worship and what they believe may be different, but why wouldn't some of them think we were born from a tree with roots, why wouldn't they think perhaps we came from the weather - rain, storms, etc. Whether you believe in Darwin or not.

Just something for you to chew on a little. He does exist, and He loves you, my brother!

 

[the_cheat]

According to current evolutionary theory, Humans aren't descended from Chimps. Chimps and Humans, according to the theories currently in place, share a common ancestor. So I don't see where a further genetic difference proves anything one way or the other. If anything a zealous evolutionist could say that this agrees with the theory of evolution totally, and Chimps and Humans have just evolved apart further than we previously though.

 

[My Higher Self]

Haha...I was rereading this thread as I was scrounging up some of the old threads I posted in, and it literally cracks me up.

This mindset here will make me laugh everytime I see it, it just sounds so funny....

Chimpanzee's....woohoo, what a hoot, we come from chimps. That's just laughable, humans and chimps...bwahahaha.....that theory is so far fetched, everyone knows that what really happened is a great mythological being in the sky who knows everything, and see's everything created us on a whim....

Whew....that is so much easier to believe....

 

[USincognito]

Heya Larry... good to see ya back here.

Yes, that was my favorite paragraph too, however, I goofed on my assumption that evolutionists said we descended from chimpanzees. Heh, not up to date on my 'theories' of evolution. Seems they say instead that we both of a common ancestory.

By the way, care for a banana?

The truly evolved Chimpanzee enjoys a nice whiskey and 7-Up.

Oliver became a celebrity in January of 1976, when he was approximately sixteen years old. There is no question that he was odd. His head was bald and abnormally small in proportion to his body, with a cranium more rounded than a typical chimp's. His lower face lacked the usual pronounced forward jut. His ears were high and pointed, his skin pale and freckled, and his aspect unusually gentle and intelligent. His body odor was said to be strangely sharp, wholly atypical of chimpanzees. And he walked on two legs all the time. When he lived under the care of Frank and Janet Burger, the animal trainers who raised him, Oliver occasionally fed the dogs and did other chores, relaxing afterward with a cup of coffee. In the evening he might sit and watch TV with the couple, sometimes preparing a nightcap for Frank and himself of whiskey and 7UP. He did not get along with other chimps, and separation from his human companions was said to bring him to tears. When he reached sexual maturity, he was interested only in human females.

 

[USincognito]

ive always wondered if God turned dinosaurs into snakes. in Genesis, He's like, (gross paraphrasing here) "serpent, from now on crawl on your belly"
what did the serpent do before that?

From the illustrations I'd have to say they were arboreal.

And don't forget, the dinosaurs didn't go away. Look! There's one now!

 

[Sanguine]

When I have someone tell me to prove there is a God, I tell them to take a look at groups of people that have been sheltered away from the rest of us - no missionaries had been there before, no access to books or tv. When explorers have stumbled upon South American tribes, Aborigines in Austrailia, Eskimos in Yukon, etc, etc, etc, guess what? They all posses some instinct in them to worship a "god" to which they respect, love, and obey. Even our own Native Americans believe in the Great Spirit. How they worship and what they believe may be different, but why wouldn't some of them think we were born from a tree with roots, why wouldn't they think perhaps we came from the weather - rain, storms, etc. Whether you believe in Darwin or not.

The superstition of primative people, collective or not, is proof of nothing.

 

[jameseb]

The truly evolved Chimpanzee enjoys a nice whiskey and 7-Up.

That right there proves the religion of evolution is wrong..... the truly evolved drink Coke and bourbon.

 

[USincognito]

Hah!

I cut out an article about Oliver from the Dallas morning news in '97 and '98 and hadn't really given him much thought until re-reading this thread earlier tonight. Luckily the original was on the web... but then again, what isn't these days.

From the article and the accompanying photo, I honestly give a tiny possibility to him being some sort of Chimp/Human hybrid. Obviously that's impossible without some serious embryonic genetic manipulation that they didn't have 20 years ago, but still... very X-Filesesque.

 

[SuzQ]

The superstition of primative people, collective or not, is proof of nothing.

You're entitled to your opinion & I know it's uncomfortable to consider. However, it's proof enough to me, sorry. Superstitious? EVERYONE around the world? You really think it's a coincidence that 90% of the world (which is a VERY realistic number - take your own poll of those around you every day) feels like "someone" has created us and is watching us?

I understand your skepticsm. Again, going back to my post, sanguine, why don't some of these people in these remote tribes tell us that people came from the ground, the earth? That's where we grow food, right? Why don't they think that the perhaps weather has something to do with where they came from? After all, sun & rain makes things "grow", right? Sounds reasonable that some of these "uneducated" people would think that, don't you? Why don't some of them just simply not care at ALL and continue to multiply & live without any theories of their existence at all?

I really would like a "scientific" explanation on why most humans have an inner instinct that leads them to believe with their hearts and minds that there is a "god" up in the sky. I need more explanation other than "primative people are superstitious". I'm not primative, and quite educated. However, I guess I'm superstitious because I believe without a doubt that my Lord created me? I think these "primative" people in tribes are actually more intelligent than we are, to be honest. We make things way too complicated. I once took a test that looked "tricky" and complicated, yet had very simple answers that was given to both an adult group & a kindergarten group. (I'll try to find it, if you're interested). The Kindergarteners scored twice as high as the adults!

Religious or not, the "data" on these sheltered people and the fact that they have similar beliefs of a "god in the sky" without ever having interacted with each other is very convincing. Remember that all these other "scientific" theories that there is no god are ALSO based upon the opinions and publishings of your fellow man. There are some famous men and women who have been known to be wrong. (The earth is flat??? Marsupials were thought to be in the same mammal catergory as bats, because some of them hang upside down? The sun is not a star??? The moon is made of cheese? LOL - ok, the last one is a fairy tale ).

 

[My Higher Self]

You're entitled to your opinion & I know it's uncomfortable to consider. However, it's proof enough to me, sorry. Superstitious? EVERYONE around the world? You really think it's a coincidence that 90% of the world (which is a VERY realistic number - take your own poll of those around you every day) feels like "someone" has created us and is watching us?

I understand your skepticsm. Again, going back to my post, sanguine, why don't some of these people in these remote tribes tell us that people came from the ground, the earth? That's where we grow food, right? Why don't they think that the perhaps weather has something to do with where they came from? After all, sun & rain makes things "grow", right? Sounds reasonable that some of these "uneducated" people would think that, don't you? Why don't some of them just simply not care at ALL and continue to multiply & live without any theories of their existence at all?

I really would like a "scientific" explanation on why most humans have an inner instinct that leads them to believe with their hearts and minds that there is a "god" up in the sky. I need more explanation other than "primative people are superstitious". I'm not primative, and quite educated. However, I guess I'm superstitious because I believe without a doubt that my Lord created me? I think these "primative" people in tribes are actually more intelligent than we are, to be honest. We make things way too complicated. I once took a test that looked "tricky" and complicated, yet had very simple answers that was given to both an adult group & a kindergarten group. (I'll try to find it, if you're interested). The Kindergarteners scored twice as high as the adults!

Religious or not, the "data" on these sheltered people and the fact that they have similar beliefs of a "god in the sky" without ever having interacted with each other is very convincing. Remember that all these other "scientific" theories that there is no god are ALSO based upon the opinions and publishings of your fellow man. There are some famous men and women who have been known to be wrong. (The earth is flat??? Marsupials were thought to be in the same mammal catergory as bats, because some of them hang upside down? The sun is not a star??? The moon is made of cheese? LOL - ok, the last one is a fairy tale ).

I see your point, and honestly, I agree with you, that's why I believe in "a god", but if you take notice, these primitive undiscovered people are not worshipping Jesus. So to use this as an example to prove that the god of the bible exists is just nonsense. Its a nice warm blanket to wrap around your spiritual insecurities, but it proves nothing.

 

[Larry]

That right there proves the religion of evolution is wrong..... the truly evolved drink Coke and bourbon.

"the religion of evolution"

ROTFL!!!!

You're killin' me.

 

[tulc]

The superstition of primative people, collective or not, is proof of nothing.

Except that wholly apart from missionaries some "primitive" people have a concept of God. Which is what SuzQ was saying. So yeah other then presenting an argument to support her theory it proves nothing.
tulc(hey My Higher Self how's everything?)

 

[SirKenin]

Well, one story is not going to change my opinion. Usually the entire science community has to embrace a scientific finding,

And what do you think Nature magazine is? You think you just publish a piece of junk and Nature will publish whatever you throw at them? Think again... You're not really thinking, you're merely demonstrating your prejudice.

 

[tulc]

You're not really thinking, you're merely demonstrating your prejudice.

Uhmm was that really nessesary? You had made your point I think. Then comes this making it a personal attack. Some how I just don't see this as advancing what you were trying to prove. Just a thought.
tulc

 

[Mistyfogg]

Oy ve, Misty, I was only trying to throw some humor in the discussion, really, I was. You have thoughful & interesting posts on many threads, but you have to let your guard down & be able to have a little chuckle now and then!

Sorry if I came off that way. I guess I was a little "on edge" because I posted that during my finals week .