Origin of Satan

28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
Matthew 8:28-29

he-man said:

Yep! And who created ALL things including the snake?
You must know that this God, in whom, alas, you have not yet come to believe, made both the snake along with the lower creatures, and the sun along with other exalted creatures. Moreover, among still more exalted creatures, not heavenly bodies, but spiritual beings, He has made what far surpasses the light of the sun, and what no carnal man can perceive, much less you, who, in your condemnation of flesh, condemn the very principle by which you determine good and evil. For your only idea of evil is from the disagreeableness of some things to the fleshly sense; and your only idea of good is from sensual gratification.
BOOK XXI,] TWO PRINCIPLES 383 -386 REPLY TO FAUSTUS THE MANICHAEN

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meh.

There is a very common perception that the 'Lucifer' in Isaiah 14:12ff refers to Satan, the supernatural personification of evil. I think that this misconception comes from two sources. The first is wishful thinking in the sense that it is nice to think that 'the Enemy' will get his come-uppance eventually. The second has to do with the old caution that scripture is to be read only 'in context'. This requires going back and reading all of Isaiah 13 and the earlier verses in Isaiah 14. When this is done we suddenly realize that scripture is not speaking of a supernatural Satan at all but of a Babylonian king with an immense ego. Read Isaiah 14: " 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" What follows is a long rant against this oppressive king filled with numerous reference to his human nature like Isaiah 14: "16 Those who see you stare at you, they ponder your fate: Is this the man who shook the earth and made kingdoms tremble, 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" This passage is in no way a reference to Satan or the devil. That anyone would draw that conclusion is, to me, somewhat naive.

God didn't create Satan, man did. Satan (ha'shaitan) occurs by name in the Old Testament in the Book of Job, and here it's clear that Satan IS NOT the Devil! The Devil is supposedly banished from the presence of God, yet in Job, Satan is allowed to come and go from God's presence and on a mission for God yet! What's going on? Satan here is not "the Devil" but sort of God's prosecuting attorney. The Jews did not originally believe in devils but they picked up these concepts (and more!) during the Babylonian Exile from the Persians who followed Zoroastrianism. Up to that time, their concept of God was of a being responsible for everything, both good and evil. Isaiah 45:7 is just one quote that demonstrates this. The Exilic Jews found the concept of a near-Supreme Being of Evil interesting. They borrowed it because it got God off the hook for the suffering and evil in the world, providing him with a scapegoat. God was now all-good! Satan was made into the Devil as a result of this alien dualism, since his function as a prosecutor was so unwelcome to the Jews. And retroactively what was only actually a talking serpent in the Garden of Eden was identified as the Devil as well.

To most modern Christians, the concept of the Devil is a conflation of the serpent of Genesis, the Lucifer of Isaiah and the Satan of Job. This conflation is further supplemented by lurid medieval fiction like Dante's "Inferno".

Might it not be better to set these images aside and simply take responsiblity for our own evil thoughts and deeds?

Paul of Eugene OR said:

Only by those who don't pay attention to style and language. The subject of Job is portrayed as before Moses, but the writing of the book is much later.

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The Israelites had a VERY strong oral tradition which took many, many centuries to discard in favor of the written word. Hebrew scholars say that the tale of Job was told for many generations before it was written down.

Post #43: Q: "Might it not be better to set these "images" aside and simply take responsiblity for our own evil thoughts and deeds?

A: Not only NO, but "HELL" NO!
No where in the Bible does it say Man BECOMES RIGHTEOUS/HOLY before God by "taking responsiblity for our own evil thoughts and deeds"

God is perfectly JUST and JUDGES the SPIRIT of ALL MEN. Believers are NOT judged for their SPIRITUAL POSITION, only their spiritual "Works"...in or out of the will God. UNbelievers are SENTENCED at the Great White Throne of God.

Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,(of immortal SPIRIT!)

God saved much of the FACTS of "life after death" until the last Book: Revelation!...which has a LOT to say about the spirit beings of the unholy 3: devil + beast + false prophet. UNbelievers end up with them + "Death" + "Hades' in the "lake of fire"...a REAL spiritual realm, separated from God + angels + believers in the heavenly realms...FOR ETERNITY...and that's a long time, especially near the "end".

This evil spirit satan is like a snake with his head crushed...defeated but still flailing!

Genesis 3:15
He (Jesus...the "seed of woman) shall bruise you (devil) on the head, (DEATH BLOW!)
And you shall bruise him on the heel.” (bloody death followed by resurrection)

This SENTENCE will be carried out....NOT a reward for being cast out.

Revelation 19:20, 20:10 ..Doom of the Beast and False Prophet and Devil
And the beast (anti-christ) was seized, and with him the false prophet (anti-spirit) who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the "lake of fire" which burns with brimstone....
And the devil (aka satan/serpent/dragon/fallen Lucifer/etc)who deceived them was thrown into the "lake of fire" and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also;
and they (unholy 3) will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Revelation 20:15
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the (Lamb's) "book of life" (believer),
he was thrown into the "lake of fire".( for UNbelievers)

Revelation 21:27
and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it (NEW Heavens/Earth),
but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.

1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; (evil = absence of God)
for the devil has sinned from the beginning. (liar and deceiver allowed into Eden as the serpent)
The Son of God appeared for this purpose,
to destroy the works of the devil.

mcarmichael said:

Right, because he was cursed in the garden of Eden right along with Adam and Eve, wasn't he?

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All this happened before Adam and Eve. But yes, he was cursed as well.

Monk Brendan said:

All this happened before Adam and Eve. But yes, he was cursed as well.

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That's what I don't understand. No basis.

Monk Brendan said:

God created a separate place for him that we call hell.

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In my own researches into the Bible on the subjects of Satan and Hell, I could find no connection between the two.

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua Himself says HaSatan exists. Also, yes there is immortality, BUT, this CAN be destroyed in the 2nd death...one from which there is no being born again from...in the lake of fire...

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...this because God alone is the source of all life, and those who are separated from Him are separated from life?

Lazarus Short said:

In my own researches into the Bible on the subjects of Satan and Hell, I could find no connection between the two.

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Maybe you missed the Apocalypse of St. John?

he-man said:

To this day, Christian baptism requires a person to solemnly" renounce the devil and all his works" and to accept exorcism. Rereading biblical and extra biblical accounts of angels, I learned first of all what many scholars have pointed out: that while angels often appear in the Hebrew Bible, Satan, along with other fallen angels or demonic beings, is virtually absent. Source: MY COPY of The Origin of Satan by Elaine Pagels, introduction xvi, Copyright 1995
So why does anyone even want to think there is a supernatural being such as a Satan that can never die and would have to be immortal if he was equal unto the angels and still lives after 6,000 years, when Luke says those that obtain resurrection Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels
Luke 20:34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Where does that leave the Satan Theory?

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satan is not a (be)souled being, but an unsouled spirit

Blessings

toLiJC said:

satan is not a (be)souled being, but an unsouled spirit

Blessings

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Source?

mcarmichael said:

Source?

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by revelation

Blessings

toLiJC said:

by revelation

Blessings

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Doubt your source.

To the OP, I hope you've managed to put every little thing together. I hope I helped, too, but not too much. I would be worried if I inadvertantly provided too much assistance to the enemy. I hope you understand.

Maybe it's meant to be a mystery.

Full disclosure: I suppose that "Satan" first sinned in Eden. It's not a formal thesis, though.

It's a parable?

Its irrelevant what verb or noun is used to describe this 'Adversary" or "Accuser", call him Satan, Devil, Lucifer, Diabolos, Belzebub, evil one, (son of) perdition, serpent, Apollyon, Moloch, or whatever.

Demons were popular in judaism from the 3rd century BC to about the 2nd century AD as seen in the popularity of the jewish apocryphal books of Enoch and Moses. Then after this when the jews were dispersed they saw how popular demonology was to the gentile christians so Jewry tried to claim demons didnt exist, yet they still acknowledge that their talmud, and sages and midrash speak of them.

Its also irrelevant how their understanding evolved. The earliest parts of the OT refer to all spirits of God as 'sons of God' mostly because the idea of angels and messengers did not yet fully exist so they still incorporated the idea of a pantheon of Gods. The sons of Gods being on the lower echelon deities on the pantheon, then over time this council of sons of god were demoted to seraph and cherubim and messengers and wandering stars etc. so we no longer view them as a divine heirarchy. Yet in the early texts angels were still called God (Genesis 32:30 for example) Christians interpret everything in light of the NT where demons and the 'father of lies' exists.

Monk Brendan said:

All this happened before Adam and Eve. But yes, he was cursed as well.

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Again, there is nothing in Genesis or any Old Testament thing that implies Satan was "cursed" or anything at all. Satan was an attorney in Job and that's it.