Origin of Satan

miknik5 · May 31, 2017

He Man,

This is what I fully

said

miknik5 said:
Revelation 19

"These BOTH (two) were cast alive in the lake of fire"

Please review the WORD of GOD

Concentrate on the last paragraph about the bodies and the birds

miknik5 said:
Then proceed to revelation 20

toLiJC · Jun 1, 2017

he-man said:
Rev 19:19 Then I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies gathered to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
20 And the beast [verse 19 the kings of the earth] was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Now all this is spoken of the same people, in the same circumstances of willful rebellion and obstinate unbelief; and the great God of heaven and earth is he who judicially blinds their eyes; makes their hearts fat, i.e. stupid; gives them the spirit of slumber: and bows down their back, etc. On these very grounds it is exceedingly likely that the apostle means the true God by the words the god of this world. And as to the expression this world, αιωνος τουτου, we are not to imagine that it necessarily means wicked men, or a wicked age; for it is frequently used to express the whole mundane system, and all that is called time.
They have resisted the grace which God gave them, and have refused to yield to the evidences which amply prove the Messiah ship of Jesus; and therefore their eyes were judicially darkened, as it is said in the prophet: He hath closed their eyes, and hath given them the spirit of slumber. That is, they have shut their eyes against the light, and their blindness and stupor are the consequence.

i am not going to judge clarke here, but why must the true God cause all people of the world (in the literal sense of the words) to be implicated in spiritual unrighteousness/lawlessness/wickedness?!, the true Saints are the ones that are called, because the true God hardly has a benefit of causing all people to be involved in spiritual/religious activity if there are not good enough (inward and outward) conditions for this, which is why St Paul says in the same chapter (which adam clarke commented above) that the true Saints are the ones that work for overall salvation so that all other people can have abundant and eternal life:

2 Corinthians 4:12 "So death works in us, but life in you."

because the system of human(666) spirituality/religiosity is the one that has shut off the Kingdom of Heaven from humankind and has invited so many people to become religious worshipers and spiritual servants of the "beast", while the true God and His (true) Saints have never acted so

he-man said:
But what if God, willing to show His wrath, and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, and that He might manifest the riches of His grace towards the vessels of mercy, which He hath before prepared unto glory etc. Here it evidently cannot be said that it is one God who shows his wrath, and makes known his power in the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction, and another God who shows his riches in the vessels of mercy. According to the apostle's doctrine, it is one and the same God who does both. For in all these words quoted from the apostle no other God is understood than He whose Son, sent by Him, came saying, " For judgment am I come into this world, that they which see not might see, and that they which see might be made blind," Regarding this it is well said of God, "Thy judgments are a great deep."' The apostle, in admiration of the unfathomable depth of this abyss, exclaims : "0 the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and of the knowledge of God How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out ! You cannot distinguish between what God does in mercy and what He does in judgment, because you can neither understand nor use the words of our Psalter " I will sing of mercy and judgment unto Thee, 0 Lord." Accordingly, whatever in the feebleness of your frail humanity seems amiss to you, you separate entirely from the will and judgment of God for you are provided with another evil god, not by a discovery of truth, but by an invention of folly. So you think snakes are made by en evil being; while you consider the sun so great a good, that you believe it to be not the creature of God, but an emission from His substance. You must know that the this God, in whom, alas, you have not yet come to believe, made both the snake along with the lower creatures, and the sun along with other exalted creatures. Adam Clarke Commentary e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge & [ BOOK XXI,] TWO PRINCIPLES 383 -386 REPLY TO FAUSTUS THE MANICHAEN
The works of Aurelius Augustine / a new translation, ... v.5. Augustine, Saint, Bishop of Hippo
]

likewise i am not going to judge augustine, but how can there be only one God being both good and evil?!, for example, if i am your father and you are my little child, and i pay someone to took you to and leave you alone in the middle of a very vast jungle (with the size of the surface area of jupiter), and if you somehow manage to survive like tarzan and return home after 10 years of searching for a way back home and of many dangers, narrow escapes, pains and sufferings when you will already be grown up but still remembering what i had done to you, what will you think of me?!, will i be good for you especially if you know the bad thing(s) that have happened to you have not happened to your brothers(my other sons) and they have lived paradisaically since they were born?!, so there is just no way that there be only one God being both good and evil as in this example, but it is expressly written that there is no "darkness" in the true God at all:

Matthew 7:17-19 "every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.",

1 John 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."

so do you agree with the claim that the true God is a bad "tree" or "darkness"?!, do you dare call Him "a bad tree" or "(a creator of) darkness"?!, especially when it is written that there is a true God and also a wicked/evil one:

1 John 5:19-21 "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, guard yourselves from idols."

so if the idols(the false gods) are at the root of the problem(s), then what is that "world" which lies in the power of the wicked god?!, it must, first of all, be a religious world...

Blessings

he-man · Jun 2, 2017

toLiJC said:
because the system of human(666) spirituality/religiosity is the one that has shut off the Kingdom of Heaven from humankind and has invited so many people to become religious worshipers and spiritual servants of the "beast", while the true God and His (true) Saints have never acted so
likewise i am not going to judge augustine, but how can there be only one God being both good and evil?!, for example, if i am your father and you are my little child, and i pay someone to took you to and leave you alone in the middle of a very vast jungle ( so there is just no way that there be only one God being both good and evil as in this example, but it is expressly written that there is no "darkness" in the true God at all:Matthew 7:17-19 "every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.",
1 John 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."
1 John 5:19-21 "We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given us understanding so that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, guard yourselves from idols." so if the idols(the false gods) are at the root of the problem(s), then what is that "world" which lies in the power of the wicked god?!, it must, first of all, be a religious world...Blessings

Perhaps you could read the following?
Matthew 7:17-19 "every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.",
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wickedness toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
See on wickedness, evils, Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Luk 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the wickedness which Herod had done,
In wickedness ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ) Greek Shortcuts: πονηρός, πονηρός, πονηρά̄, πονηρόν, worthless, evil, base
πονηρός, ά, όν, in physical sense, in bad case, in sorry plight, useless, good-for-nothing, σύμμαχοι ib.220, cf. Nu.102; στράτευμα X.An.3.4.34; ἰατρός Antipho 4.2.4 (v.l. for μοχθηρός) ; κύων, ἱππάριον, Pl. Euthd.298d, X.Cyr.1.4.19; δίαιτα, τροφή, σιτία, injurious, Pl.R.425e, Lg.735b, Grg.464d, etc.;[ LSJ] Logeion
G4190 πονηρων πονηρός sly, tricky, sneaky, cunning, artful, foxy, canny, shrewd; wickedness, vice, (knavery; archaic: a dishonest or unscrupulous man. OE cnafa 'boy, servant', of W. Gmc origin. © Oxford University Press), knavish; Adjective: marked by skill in deception; "cunning men" ; Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary; tricks, rogueries; a dishonest or unprincipled man, © Oxford University Press; baseness, cowardice

toLiJC · Jun 3, 2017

he-man said:
Perhaps you could read the following?
Matthew 7:17-19 "every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.",
Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
Mat 21:41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wickedness toucheth him not.
1Jn 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.
1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
See on wickedness, evils, Mar 7:21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Mar 7:22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
Luk 3:19 But Herod the tetrarch, being reproved by him for Herodias his brother Philip's wife, and for all the wickedness which Herod had done,
In wickedness ἐν τῷ πονηρῷ) Greek Shortcuts: πονηρός, πονηρός, πονηρά̄, πονηρόν, worthless, evil, base
πονηρός, ά, όν, in physical sense, in bad case, in sorry plight, useless, good-for-nothing, σύμμαχοι ib.220, cf. Nu.102; στράτευμα X.An.3.4.34; ἰατρός Antipho 4.2.4 (v.l. for μοχθηρός) ; κύων, ἱππάριον, Pl. Euthd.298d, X.Cyr.1.4.19; δίαιτα, τροφή, σιτία, injurious, Pl.R.425e, Lg.735b, Grg.464d, etc.;[ LSJ] Logeion
G4190 πονηρων πονηρός sly, tricky, sneaky, cunning, artful, foxy, canny, shrewd; wickedness, vice, (knavery; archaic: a dishonest or unscrupulous man. OE cnafa 'boy, servant', of W. Gmc origin. © Oxford University Press), knavish; Adjective: marked by skill in deception; "cunning men" ; Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary; tricks, rogueries; a dishonest or unprincipled man, © Oxford University Press; baseness, cowardice

is there anything you try to allude to with this, or you just witness to these biblical passages/verses just by quoting them leaving me to deal with them alone according as God will give me to understand them?!

regardless of what we can read from Scripture (given the fact that there are many different translations/versions and interpretations of the Bible), there are different manifestations of the divine - there is a true God, but there is also a wicked/evil one; there is also a negative god judge which is the highest manifestation of the "darkness" controlled by the true One

Matthew 5:25 (AKJV) "Agree with your adversary quickly(i.e. with the true God if your attitude to Him is in one way or another hostile/adverse), whiles you are in the way with him(i.e. while you practice the faith and still have the chance to repent of your sin); lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge(i.e. lest at any time the true One goes into a deeper phase of incomplete wakefulness for you and thus you fall into the hands of the negative god judge), and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison."

Blessings

he-man · Jun 3, 2017

toLiJC said:
there are different manifestations of the divine - there is a true God, but there is also a wicked/evil one; there is also a negative god judge which is the highest manifestation of the "darkness" controlled by the true One Matthew 5:25 (AKJV) "Agree with your adversary quickly(i.e. with the true God if your attitude to Him is in one way or another hostile/adverse), whiles you are in the way with him(i.e. while you practice the faith and still have the chance to repent of your sin); lest at any time the adversary deliver you to the judge(i.e. lest at any time the true One goes into a deeper phase of incomplete wakefulness for you and thus you fall into the hands of the negative god judge), and the judge deliver you to the officer, and you be cast into prison." Blessings

What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and he will burn up the chaff, the enemy, with unquenchable fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES]
and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

he-man · Jun 4, 2017

he-man said:
What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and he will burn up the chaff, the enemy, with unquenchable fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES]
and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

He shall incinerate G2618 κατακαίω From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly).
[by inextinguishable].G762 ἄσβεστος asbestos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable. ineffaceable
Moulton and Milligan; BAG411-412; LN133; Strong
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up? [YLT]

toLiJC · Jun 4, 2017

he-man said:
What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and he will burn up the chaff, the enemy, with unquenchable fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES]
and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

and is it possible that there be only one manifestation of the divine that is the cause (both) of all good and all evil things?! - how can it be possible that the same God Who sent His Son to save the world/humankind turns out to be the cause of all evil things?!, i cannot even imagine the Lord, Jesus Christ, causing harm/suffering to any person, let alone God the Heavenly Father doing it - where in the Bible can we see Jesus causing evil to any person?!, and He was precisely the one who said:

John 14:9-11 (GWT) "The person who has seen me has seen the Father. So how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? What I'm telling you doesn't come from me. The Father, who lives in me, does what he wants. Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and that the Father is in me. Otherwise, believe me because of the things I do."

so if Jesus had never been evil to anybody for the time He lived in this world, how much more had God the Father been good especially when Jesus said: "The tasks that the Father gave me to carry out, these tasks which I perform, testify on my behalf. They prove that the Father has sent me."(John 5:36), and also: "the Father is greater than I am"(John 14:28)?!

so, personally i don't dare believe that (the true) God is evil - remember the parable of the servant that believed His Master is evil and what happened to him (Matthew 25:14-30, Luke 7:23), such parables represent the mechanism of the divine as a whole, there is not only one aspect/manifestation of the divine, as Jesus says in Matthew 5:25 - after all, satan as an enemy of the true God is a fact...

Blessings

he-man · Jun 4, 2017

toLiJC said:
and is it possible that there be only one manifestation of the divine that is the cause (both) of all good and all evil things?! - how can it be possible that the same God Who sent His Son to save the world/humankind turns out to be the cause of all evil things?!, after all, satan as an enemy of the true God is a fact...Blessings

Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

he-man said:
What does "Agree with your adversary quickly" mean?? Agree with thine adversary quickly - Adversary, αντιδικος, Thine adversary - A man that is opposed to us in law. It here means a creditor; a man who has a just claim on us. [BARNES] Lest at any time the adversary should deliver thee to the judge, a superior magistrate in a higher court; for if the creditor would, he could oblige the debtor to go with him to the supreme court of judicature, and try the cause there; for so say the Jewish (i); canons: [GILL]
Now so you can understand Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." It means anyone who opposes God is an enemy, and he will burn up the chaff, the enemy, with unquenchable fire,
Now what Isaiah means is that there are no other gods and that He is the only GOD, there is no "EVIL-god" no foreign gods, just the ONE and only GOD. Isaiah 43:10 " You are My witnesses," says the LORD, " And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. (11) I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior. (12) I have declared and saved, I have proclaimed, And there was no foreign god among you; Therefore you are My witnesses," Says the LORD, "that I am God.
Now consider that it is GOD who will burn up the chaff with the unquenchable fire that we call hell fire and brimstone!
Mat 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Did you know that GOD puts the candle of the WICKED out thereby destroying them as they are stubble and chaff like the ungodly tares who shall perish?
Job 21:17 How oft is the candle of the wicked put out! and how oft cometh their destruction upon them! God distributeth sorrows in his anger.
18 They are as stubble before the wind, and as chaff that the storm carrieth away.
Ps 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
Now the ungodly are the bad, chaff, stubble, tares, and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire. Mat 13:48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.
49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net ... - This parable does not differ in meaning from that of the tares. The gospel is compared to a net dragging along on the bottom of a lake, and collecting all - good and bad. The gospel may be expected to do the same; but in the end of the world, when the net “is drawn in,” the bad will be separated from the good; the one will be cast away, and the other saved. [BARNES]
and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away; as fishermen used to do; though this last office seems, by the application of the parable, to be what will be performed by angels; who, as many as they find to have a good work of grace wrought and finished in their souls, they will gather into Christ's barn, into the everlasting habitations, the mansions in Christ's Father's house, he is gone to prepare: but as for the bad, who shall appear to be destitute of the grace of God, and righteousness of Christ, notwithstanding their profession of religion, they shall be rejected, as good for nothing, and shall be cast into the lake which burns with fire and brimstone. [GILL] and He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT]
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit - What a terrible sentence is this against Christless pastors, and Christless hearers! Every tree that produceth not good fruit, εκκοπτεται, is to be now cut down; the act of excision is now taking place: the curse of the Lord is even now on the head and the heart of every false teacher, and impenitent hearer.[CLARKE]
e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

he-man said:
He shall incinerate G2618 κατακαίω From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly).
[by inextinguishable].G762 ἄσβεστος asbestos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable. ineffaceable
Moulton and Milligan; BAG411-412; LN133; Strong
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up? [YLT]

toLiJC · Jun 4, 2017

he-man said:
He shall incinerate G2618 κατακαίω From G2596 and G2545; to burn down (to the ground), that is, consume wholly: - burn (up, utterly).
[by inextinguishable].G762 ἄσβεστος asbestos
From G1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of G4570; not extinguished, that is, (by implication) perpetual: - not to be quenched, unquenchable. ineffaceable
Moulton and Milligan; BAG411-412; LN133; Strong
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up? [YLT]

don't trust/relay too much on the translations, the people that have translated Scripture have not been aware of not-a-few things about God and the spiritual

do you think the true God has any benefit of causing harm or suffering to any soul?!, if He is evil, then it is certain we are betrayed, because the eternal judgment is inevitable for every soul, and if the true One delivered/handed over us to be hurt, then He would thus definitely betray us in the longest term of eternity (given that every thing that happens to souls in this eternity will inevitably happen to any other soul in next/future eternities and then again to every soul ad infinitum) - there is just no way for the true God to betray us, the traitor is the wicked/evil one as well as each of his servants/workers - one thing is if a savior is not able to save some person, while quite another thing is if a so-called savior is able to and can save a person but doesn't do it deliberately...

Blessings

toLiJC · Jun 4, 2017

he-man said:
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT]
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit - What a terrible sentence is this against Christless pastors, and Christless hearers! Every tree that produceth not good fruit, εκκοπτεται, is to be now cut down; the act of excision is now taking place: the curse of the Lord is even now on the head and the heart of every false teacher, and impenitent hearer.[CLARKE]
e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge

again suspicious sources

and how would any man do evil if there was no wicked/evil god to incite him to do it - remember that adam and eve had been righteous/sinless since the true God created them and before satan seduced them into sinning - they would not sin if there was no one to prompt them to sin...

Blessings

he-man · Jun 4, 2017

toLiJC said:
again suspicious sources and how would any man do evil if there was no wicked/evil god to incite him to do it - remember that adam and eve had been righteous/sinless since the true God created them and before satan seduced them into sinning - they would not sin if there was no one to prompt them to sin...Blessings

Suspicious? Young's Literal Testament you can also read it in the manuscripts.. G444 ANOC
Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Genesis | Query&book=33&chapter=13&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0
Mat 13:28 And he said to them, an enemy, a man G444 ἄνθρωπος From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man. did this.
In the Greek text it is, "an enemy man"; and is so rendered in the several versions [GILL]
For example NOTE: 2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite. .[CLARKE] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge
In another vision, Daniel sees a horned ram that the angel Gabriel explains to him "is the king of Greece." Throughout the visions of Daniel, such monstrous animals represent foreign rulers and nations who threaten Israel. THE ORIGIN OF SATAN by Ellen Pagels Copyright 1995 scanned from MY Book. Eze 28:26 when I GOD have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God.
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Do you think God didn't Kill the firstborn of all the Egyptians?
Why do you think God destroyed the cities of Sodom after Abraham ask Him to spare the city if He could find just one believer?

toLiJC · Jun 4, 2017

he-man said:
Suspicious? Young's Literal Testament you can also read it in the manuscripts..View attachment 198482 G444 ANOC
Codex Sinaiticus - See The Manuscript | Genesis | Query&book=33&chapter=13&lid=en&side=r&zoomSlider=0
Mat 13:28 And he said to them, an enemy, a man G444 ἄνθρωπος From G435 and ὤψ ōps (the countenance; from G3700); manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man. did this.
In the Greek text it is, "an enemy man"; and is so rendered in the several versions [GILL]
For example NOTE: 2Sa 24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah. 16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite. .[CLARKE] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge
In another vision, Daniel sees a horned ram that the angel Gabriel explains to him "is the king of Greece." Throughout the visions of Daniel, such monstrous animals represent foreign rulers and nations who threaten Israel. THE ORIGIN OF SATAN by Ellen Pagels Copyright 1995 scanned from MY Book. Eze 28:26 when I GOD have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God.
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
Do you think God didn't Kill the firstborn of all the Egyptians?
Why do you think God destroyed the cities of Sodom after Abraham ask Him to spare the city if He could find just one believer?

first of all, i listen to the true God - all this text that you wrote is from some books written by humans, and unfortunately this is the human(666) factor, namely when humans listen to humans rather than to the true God, so not that the Bible is a suspicious source of itself, but the human(666) factor is the suspicious source

it seems that you do not consider/realize some things; Jesus Christ, the Lord, had never treated satan as a servant of the true God, let alone as His manifestation, but had always cast him out, which indicates that satan was not created by the true One, nor had he been supported by Him, nor, unfortunately, has the true God yet managed to stop the "darkness" completely and permanently (from abusing humans/souls), but this doesn't mean that He doesn't try to and won't stop it, nor that He is the creator of the "darkness", because if He created it, then He would be responsible for all evils that have befallen human beings since the day of the Fall - there must be some reasonable explanation for the cause of (the) causes, why would the true One need to create and send the wicked/evil one to abuse humans?!, if He has always been mighty enough to give life to the souls, given that He created humans, not humans — God, why must He have sent delusion and deterioration to humans after He created them?!, something doesn't add up about such an assertion as yours, and it is notably a speculation, there must be not only one aspect/manifestation of the divine, which is why in the Bible there is speech about "darkness" as something having existed even before God began to create for the first time (Genesis 1:1-2), and the fact that the divine is presented as a God, doesn't mean that it is not about its mechanism (of impact(s) of its different aspects/manifestations)

whatever we (may) say about these things, there are zillions of souls needing salvation now - tomorrow it will be more or less late, which makes it clear there is a need to work for overall salvation

Blessings

he-man · Jun 5, 2017

toLiJC said:
first of all, i listen to the true God nor that He is the creator of the "darkness", because if He created it, then He would be responsible for all evils

Then LISTEN Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

toLiJC said:
there must be some reasonable explanation for the cause of (the) causes, why would the true One need to create and send the wicked/evil one to abuse humans?!, Blessings

You mean wicked and evil ones! Pro 16:4　 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.　Rom_9:22　 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Why do you think God didn't Kill the firstborn of all the Egyptians?
Exo_13:15　 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
Why do you think God didn't destroy the cities of Sodom after Abraham ask Him to spare the city if He could find just one believer? Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. 13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

toLiJC · Jun 8, 2017

he-man said:
Then LISTEN Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

yes, i already listened to it, but whether you understand it correctly?!, there is a whole teaching, coming from the Kingdom of the true God, about the difference between Him and the evil one, firstly, the divine is indefinitely existing throughout the (whole) time's infinity (including all its aspects/manifestations), IOW, not only the true God but also the "darkness" is indefinitely existing and indestructible throughout the (whole) time's infinity, and in the beginning of the (single/little) eternity(note: the current one began about 5-6 millennia ago) God had to give the "darkness" a chance to prove (itself) that it is good enough not to be cast and locked out, because then the wicked/evil one made claims that he could (ostensibly) be necessary for the souls and that the true One still didn't have (enough) witnesses among human beings that can testify against the "darkness", that it is too dangerous to be allowed to act freely in the universe, so the true One was kind of obliged to give the "darkness" a chance to prove (itself) for no more than seven times (Revelation 17:9-10), and went against His will into a centuries-long state of incomplete wakefulness as of the seventh day, and therefore the "darkness" has had the chance to manifest as a part of God in the world since the day the true One went into that state, which is why there has been a gradual process of overthrowing the wicked/evil one, and he had had greatest power in the time(s) before the establishment/enactment of the New Covenant - then satan had had great power in the "heaven", with which he was able to manifest as if he is a constant part of God/Jehovah and to impose imperfections on the way the "law" (of the old covenant) was established/written and on the way the religious worshipers and (the) spiritual servants could act - to such an extent that even the bodies of true Saints/Prophets of the true God were kind of compelled to do evil (for example, remember how Elisha cursed the children that mocked him (2 Kings 2:23-24)), the wicked/evil one was even able to hold the bodies of died Saints in graves for centuries (i.e. so that they could not resurrect) till the Lord's death on golgotha/the cross (Matthew 27:50-53) - do you now understand who or rather which was the evil aspect of God?!, as the Lord Jesus said, satan has precisely been the one causing evil among the gods (John 8:41-45), and, as it is written, he as well as all other manifestations of the "darkness" are going to be cast into the "lake of fire" and will stay there till the end of the eternity so that they can no longer cause evil to souls (Revelation 20)...

here is another revelation to Isaiah 45:7

1 Corinthians 4:18-21 (NLT) "Some of you have become arrogant, thinking I will not visit you again. But I will come—and soon—if the Lord lets me, and then I’ll find out whether these arrogant people just give pretentious speeches or whether they really have God’s power. For the Kingdom of God is not just a lot of talk; it is living by God’s power. Which do you choose? Should I come with a rod to punish you, or should I come with love and a gentle spirit?"

it is said about Me that I form the Light and create darkness, make peace and create evil, that I the LORD do all these things, how is this possible?!, how would you like Me, providing you with all kinds of good things or causing you evil?!, how should the system Administrator/Provider of life act as such, taking good care of the souls or causing them evil?!, how is better?!, have you ever seen Me doing evil to anyone?!, have you known My anatomy?!, who has ever successfully conducted/performed a full dissection of Me?!, how can/do you know what is My nature?!, if I was evil, then how would I be most righteous/holiest?!, or is it possible that the true God be worse than someone else?!, if there have been good humans, then how much more has the true One been good?!, so if there has been evil on the divine's part, couldn't there be someone or something else causing it?!, why do you think that it has necessarily been Me?!...

he-man said:
You mean wicked and evil ones! Pro 16:4　 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.　Rom_9:22　 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Why do you think God didn't Kill the firstborn of all the Egyptians?
Exo_13:15　 And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
Why do you think God didn't destroy the cities of Sodom after Abraham ask Him to spare the city if He could find just one believer? Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. 13 But the men of Sodom were wicked and sinners before the LORD exceedingly.

does the true God make mistakes?!, is He fallible?!, so how can the same God give the commandment "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" and then say "(maybe) you have heard the commandment "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", but I tell you do not render evil for evil to any person, but if someone treats you badly, treat them well"(Matthew 5:38-39)?!, or as St Paul says "Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."(Romans 12:21)

so God really destroyed many sinners, but it was not the true One that did it - it was the negative god judge, see this passage:

Job 1:8-12 "the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that fears God, and eschews evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Does Job fear God for nothing? Have not you made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he has on every side? you have blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face. And the LORD said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only on himself put not forth your hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD."

so the negative god judge is the one that said: "Behold, all that he has is in your power;", while at the very next moment the true God said: "only on himself put not forth your hand.", so there is something like a mechanism by which the different aspects/manifestations of the divine act/work simultaneously, which is called "God" in the biblical scriptures

there are not-a-few things hard to understand only by reading of Scripture, many things are given through revelation coming directly from the Kingdom of the true One:

2 Peter 3:14-16 "be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.",

1 Corinthians 6:13 "we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written, “THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.” For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words."

Blessings

he-man · Jun 8, 2017

[QUOTE="toLiJC, post: 71365601, member: 310055] remember how Elisha cursed the children that mocked him (2 Kings 2:23-24Jesus said, satan has precisely been the one causing evil among the gods (John 8:41-45),
1 Corinthians 4:18-21 (NLT) Should I come with a rod to punish you, or should I come with love and a gentle spirit?"
it is said about Me that I form the Light and create darkness, make peace and create evil, that I the LORD do all these things, how is this possible?!
Job 1:8-12 "the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that And the LORD said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only on himself put not forth your hand.
, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." Blessings[/QUOTE] (2 Kings 2:23-24 "Elisha’s time covered with a dense forest, the haunt of savage animals. Compare 1Ki 13:24; and for the general prevalence of beasts of prey in the country, both earlier and later than this." [BARNES] 2Ki 17:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.
"because they know not the manner of the God of the land; how he was to be worshipped; and because they did not worship him, and knew not how to do it, it was resented in this manner by him." [GILL]
1Co 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
Isn't it a shame that some people try to limit God and not give Him credit ffor knowing that HIS HAND is in EVERYTHING!
Job 8:13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
14 Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web. Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Isn't it weird that God says their OWN DESTRUCTION being led away by the WICKED, not A devil?
2 Peter 3:14-16 [/u][/I]to their own destruction."[/u][/I], 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
"And the father thereof (kai ho patēr autou). utou in the genitive can be either neuter or masculine. Westcott takes it thus, “because he is a liar and his father is a liar,” making “one,” not the devil, the subject of “whenever he speaks,” [RWP]
Job 15:21 A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him. 1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer
Destroyer mαshchith', Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked:
Mt 7: 13 And here is the definition from A Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich Ex 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it. 2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the destroyer to destroy.
The Hebrews were accustomed by a figure to speak οf any superhuman agency as that οf an angel (see Bush, Note οn Exοd. iii, 2); and whenever this had a providential aspect it was attributed to a diνine messenger (2 Kings xix, 35; 2 Sam. xxiν, 15, 16; Ps. lxxνiii, 49; Acts xii, 23). Ενen Satan's malignity is represented as thus employed (Job iί, 6, 7).

toLiJC · Jun 13, 2017

he-man said:
remember how Elisha cursed the children that mocked him (2 Kings 2:23-24Jesus said, satan has precisely been the one causing evil among the gods (John 8:41-45),
1 Corinthians 4:18-21 (NLT) Should I come with a rod to punish you, or should I come with love and a gentle spirit?"
it is said about Me that I form the Light and create darkness, make peace and create evil, that I the LORD do all these things, how is this possible?!
Job 1:8-12 "the LORD said to Satan, Have you considered my servant Job, that And the LORD said to Satan, Behold, all that he has is in your power; only on himself put not forth your hand.
, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." Blessings (2 Kings 2:23-24 "Elisha’s time covered with a dense forest, the haunt of savage animals. Compare 1Ki 13:24; and for the general prevalence of beasts of prey in the country, both earlier and later than this." [BARNES] 2Ki 17:25 And so it was at the beginning of their dwelling there, that they feared not the LORD: therefore the LORD sent lions among them, which slew some of them.
"because they know not the manner of the God of the land; how he was to be worshipped; and because they did not worship him, and knew not how to do it, it was resented in this manner by him." [GILL]
1Co 4:21 What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?
Isn't it a shame that some people try to limit God and not give Him credit ffor knowing that HIS HAND is in EVERYTHING!
Job 8:13 So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish:
14 Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web. Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Isn't it weird that God says their OWN DESTRUCTION being led away by the WICKED, not A devil?
2 Peter 3:14-16 [/u][/I]to their own destruction."[/u][/I], 2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
"And the father thereof (kai ho patēr autou). utou in the genitive can be either neuter or masculine. Westcott takes it thus, “because he is a liar and his father is a liar,” making “one,” not the devil, the subject of “whenever he speaks,” [RWP]
Job 15:21 A dreadful sound is in his ears: in prosperity the destroyer shall come upon him. 1Co 10:10 Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer
Destroyer mαshchith', Esp. of eternal destruction as punishment for the wicked:
Mt 7: 13 And here is the definition from A Greek-English Lexicon by William Arndt and F Wilbur Gingrich Ex 12:29 And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. Gen 13:10 And Lot lifted up his eyes, and beheld all the plain of Jordan, that it was well watered every where, before the LORD destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, even as the garden of the LORD, like the land of Egypt, as thou comest unto Zoar. Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it. 2Sa 24:16 And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the destroyer to destroy.
The Hebrews were accustomed by a figure to speak οf any superhuman agency as that οf an angel (see Bush, Note οn Exοd. iii, 2); and whenever this had a providential aspect it was attributed to a diνine messenger (2 Kings xix, 35; 2 Sam. xxiν, 15, 16; Ps. lxxνiii, 49; Acts xii, 23). Ενen Satan's malignity is represented as thus employed (Job iί, 6, 7).

what?!, are you a quoting bot or a reasoning/prudent human being?!, how can you be sure that you are not lied by following all those words like a parrot?! - after all, it has been a very broad way (Matthew 7:13-14)

how can you say that the true God (Who made all the universal creation and the creature (especially that which He made after His image) entirely good) did/does evil(Genesis 1:31)?!, if you think so, you don't know God, and lie against Him and the truth

1 John 1:1-10 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us; ) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If(i.e. and if in such circumstances i.e. if we sin) we say that we have no sin(i.e. or if we, juxtaposing God with men, say that not humans are sinful), we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If(i.e. but if in such circumstances) we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar(IOW, we make Him out to be guilty of sin), and his word is not in us."

personally i (as a human) could not afford/dare to be evil before the people that passed a vote of confidence in me as their good emperor (if i was such an emperor), and how much more couldn't the system Administrator/Provider of life afford/dare to be evil (after all, He has to provide the souls with abundant and eternal life, not to abuse them)?! - there is a whole thread/string of explainable causes and consequences with a beginning and an end, there is also a cause of causes, and if we don't know the truth, then let us at least not lie against it; the first was the living Word coming from the true One, the creator of everything that is good, then there were human beings that are His (true) Saints/Prophets, and only then there were finally records of His Word written by Them, and each of Them managed to hear, understand and convey His Word precisely through faith, which is why it is written:

Romans 1:16-17 "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.",

Romans 2:28-29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.",

2 Corinthians 3:5-6 "Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

there was never scripture preceding His first Prophet(s), nor did any of His true Prophets/Saints ever quote verses/passages from scriptures or words of previous Prophets/Saints more than witnessed to His Word with new words

by saying that God created evil ones to cause others evil you could thus indulge them in their abuse of freedom to do evil, while the true One has never supported any devil, otherwise He would be involved in sinful activity if He created or supported evil

you just present the divine as a whole without respect to any difference between true God and wicked/evil one, and by supporting the wicked/evil one you cannot know and have the true One

Blessings

he-man · Jun 13, 2017

toLiJC said:
there was never scripture preceding His first Prophet(s), nor did any of His true Prophets/Saints ever quote verses/passages from scriptures or words of previous Prophets/Saints more than witnessed to His Word with new words

toLiJC said:
by saying that God created evil ones to cause others evil you could thus indulge them in their abuse of freedom to do evil, while the true One has never supported any devil, otherwise He would be involved in sinful activity if He created or supported evil

"The Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives it to whoever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men" (Daniel 4:17). Do you think God does not control the world and does not select whomever He wants? God does not create evil He controls it to His advantage to build His future plan. Don't you think God can control the CLAY that He, Himself molded?
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Your mind has been cluttered by thinking there is a one and only EVIL ONE. God is the ONE and Only and beside Him the is none else nor will there ever be.

toLiJC said:
you just present the divine as a whole without respect to any difference between true God and wicked/evil one, and by supporting the wicked/evil one you cannot know and have the true One Blessings

Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Pro 16:4　 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
If God did not control evil then why would He say, but to the evil and not to the to the evil ONE? Rom 13:3　 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:　4　For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.　 " I have created the destroyer to destroy." Rom_12:19　 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

toLiJC · Jun 13, 2017

he-man said:
"The Most High rules in the kingdom of men, gives it to whoever He will, and sets over it the lowest of men" (Daniel 4:17). Do you think God does not control the world and does not select whomever He wants?

the true God does not set over his household a man that destroys the prostitute mercilessly, but caresses the spiritual servents of satan with a feather - i tell you this because you seem to be a friend of the spiritual servants that are too hasty to destroy (relatively) harmless people (John 8:3-11)

he-man said:
God does not create evil He controls it to His advantage to build His future plan. Don't you think God can control the CLAY that He, Himself molded?

and do you think that the advantage of the true God is to control evil so as to befall any person?!

he-man said:
Amo 3:6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?
Your mind has been cluttered by thinking there is a one and only EVIL ONE. God is the ONE and Only and beside Him the is none else nor will there ever be.

nothing of the kind, my mind is not immersed in the lie that the Savior must (supposedly) be evil, nor do i think that there have never been many antichrists but only one

i thought we are mature and sane enough to not be lustful for duels like don quixote

i am afraid lest you misinterpret Scripture, if you still think the true God is evil, it is certain you deceive yourself - note that God is identified and presented as evil mostly/principally in the books of the old covenant, and this is because (as i already tried to explain to you before) the wicked/evil one had had a very great power in the "heaven" in all that time which had been before the establishment/enactment of the New Covenant, with which he had been able to manifest as if he is a constant part of God/Jehovah and to impose not-a-few imperfections on the way the law was established - remember how Jesus have canceled commandments such as "an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" and replaced them with new ones (Matthew 5:38-42), because they were commandments more or less imposed by the wicked/evil one, albeit through many unrighteous worshipers (among the then israelites) who had many unclean claims before Moses and God (which is why Jesus said that those imperfect commandments were given only because of the hardness of their hearts (Mark 10:15) and only for/until a time of reformation (Hebrews 9:9-10))

he-man said:
Mar 7:23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. Mat 13:28 And he saith to them, A man, an enemy, did this; and the servants said to him, Wilt thou, then, that having gone away we may gather it up?[YLT] e-Sword - the Sword of the Lord with an electronic edge.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. Pro 16:4　 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.
If God did not control evil then why would He say, but to the evil and not to the to the evil ONE? Rom 13:3　 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:　4　For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.　 " I have created the destroyer to destroy." Rom_12:19　 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

there is also a negative god judge, an unsouled entity which by its nature is the highest manifestation of the "darkness" more or less originating as a result of the clash between the "Light" and the "darkness", because the true God is the one that prevents it from condemning human and other (be)souled beings (to be hurt), so the true God is the One Who prevents evil from affecting human and other (be)souled beings, the negative god judge is the one that has the power to condemn sinners, while the very devil is the one that is inherently inclined to ruin/destroy (the life/lives of) human and other (be)souled beings and souls - all the "darkness" is detrimental to the souls, and the struggle of the true Saints is against it

Ephesians 6:12 "we wrestle not against flesh and blood(i.e. not against human or other (be)souled beings, also, not against natural bodily activities (remember Romans 14:14-20 and 1 Timothy 4:1-12)), but against principalities(i.e. but against unrighteous spiritual/religious systems), against powers(i.e. against unrighteous spiritual powers/forces), against the rulers of the darkness of this world(i.e. against the manifestations/spirits of the darkness whose kingdom is founded mainly in this world), against spiritual wickedness in high places(also: against great spiritual lawlessness)."

Blessings

he-man · Jun 14, 2017

toLiJC said:
and do you think that the advantage of the true God is to control evil so as to befall any person?!

Why do you think God sets kingdoms over the lowest of men" (Daniel 4:17) besides Him the is none else nor will there ever be. No Satan, NO Devil, only evil people.

toLiJC said:
the wicked/evil one had had a very great power in the "heaven" in all that time which had been before the establishment/enactment of the New Covenant,

Eph 6:12 It is not that we struggle against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of this obscurity, against spiritual guile in high places.
What rulers do you think are a terror to evil? Whose power should you be afraid of, the devil or the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Do you see any mention of an evil devil?
Rom 13:3　 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:　4　For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
If we are left to be hurt by anything then God cannot control evil and set up the Kingdom as He pleases. Who do you think causes plagues, tornadoes, and the like? Mat 8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
Isa 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. 21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked. Exo 15:19 For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them
Job 20:29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.

toLiJC said:
The fiery darts of the wicked

Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

toLiJC · Jun 14, 2017

he-man said:
Why do you think God sets kingdoms over the lowest of men" (Daniel 4:17) besides Him the is none else nor will there ever be. No Satan, NO Devil, only evil people.

Mark 9:35 "If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all.",

Mark 10:42-45 "You know that those who are recognized as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them; and their great men exercise authority over them. But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant; and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all. For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

the surgeon has to operate his/her patients, so the surgeon is their servant rather than the patients are servants of the surgeon, and the boss of the clinic wants his servants(employees) to be good surgeons/doctors so that the patients of his/her clinic can be treated well

if there was no devil, but only evil people, then God, Jesus and Their Saints would have only to destroy sinners, because evil people would be the only causers of evil, but if you read from Scripture that God, Jesus and Their Saints had forgiven sins, broken curses and cast evil spirits out of demon-possessed people, then this certainly indicates that there had/have been unsouled manifestations/spirits of the "darkness", which were removed from people affected by them

he-man said:
Eph 6:12 It is not that we struggle against flesh and blood, but against magistracy, against powers, against the rulers of this obscurity, against spiritual guile in high places.
What rulers do you think are a terror to evil? Whose power should you be afraid of, the devil or the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Do you see any mention of an evil devil?
Rom 13:3　 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:　4　For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

do you think that there have never been unrighteous "rulers" (reigning) in the world?!, you both read/quote Ephesians 6:12 where the matter at hand are unrighteous "rulers"/manifestations/spirits of the "darkness" and kind of make out that there have ostensibly never been evil spirits/manifestations of the "darkness" such as the devil, the "beast", the "death", the "hell", etc. (as they are presented for example in the book Revelation) referring to and trying to divert attention toward other biblical verses?! - as if you think that every biblical word has only one meaning wherever it is found in the Bible?!; (maybe) you know that in many languages there are many words each of which has two or more meanings, so are many biblical words, or can't we say that there have been righteous rulers and unrighteous rulers?!

you are right about one thing, namely the fact that there have been wicked human beings that have brought all kinds of stumbling blocks, twists, corruptions and temptations to the world especially through activity of unrighteous/lawless/wicked spirituality/religiosity, but this doesn't mean that there have never been primary/primordial manifestations of the "darkness" such as the devil, the "beast", etc.

he-man said:
If we are left to be hurt by anything then God cannot control evil and set up the Kingdom as He pleases. Who do you think causes plagues, tornadoes, and the like? Mat 8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of man is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him!
Isa 57:20 But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt. 21 There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked. Exo 15:19 For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them
Job 20:29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.

Eph 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

yes, there have also been angels of satan and great clerics of the "beast" that have also been able to show/perform great signs, wonders and great things in general - remember how the firstborn(the great) clerics of egypt showed/performed the same signs/wonders that Jehovah showed/performed through His prophet, Moses - they also managed to turn their staffs into serpents and the waters of egypt into blood through their occult/esoteric methods as though no worse than God and Moses (Exodus 7), their spiritual lawlessness/wickedness had been so great that God had to destroy their spiritual/religious system with ten "plagues", including with a view to glorifying the perfect righteousness among the nations so that all the world might know Him, the true One, and repent of their spiritual iniquities, because knowing God means loving the neighbor/townsman/cohabitant, not (just) having knowledge, or what is knowledge without love and with mass hatred and general destruction (if people destroy each other) (Isaiah 1:28)?!

remember the written word: "you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience."(Ephesians 2:1-2)

who or what do you think the "prince of the power of the air" is?!, most likely, it is someone or something having the potential to cause disasters such as tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, tsunamis, floods, catastrophes, breakdowns, epidemics, pandemics, troubles, etc.; remember that adam and eve had been sinless before the devil seduced them into beginning and continuing to practice great spiritual lawlessness/wickedness (initially in the form of occultism/esoterism and especially in the form of the teaching/creed which is nowadays known as yoga of krishna and patanjali), so there is definitely a primary/primordial manifestation of the "darkness"(the negative divine), and it is mainly the so-called "satan"

of course the manifestation(s) of the "darkness" could not enter into and settle down in the world but only through unrighteous/lawless/wicked spiritual servants/workers called "antichrists", "false prophets", "false christs", "angels of satan", etc. in the biblical scripture, so, as i said above/before, you are right about the fact that there have been many wicked ones (in case you don't twist/distort the truth of the true God about these things)

Romans 5:12-14 (KJV) "by one man(also: through the generation of the unrighteous spiritual workers/servants) sin(i.e. the devil as well as the system of spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness, a.k.a. the kingdom of the evil one) entered into the world, and death(i.e. and the (spirit of) deterioration) by sin; and so death passed upon all men(i.e. and so deterioration affected many humans), for that all have sinned(i.e. because many were seized by the system of (spiritual) unrighteousness/wickedness - some as its servants, others as its victims): For until the law sin was in the world(i.e. because the "darkness" was in the universe even before the nascence of human spirituality/religiosity): but sin is not imputed when there is no law(i.e. but there is no sin where there is no spiritual unrighteousness/wickedness). Nevertheless death(i.e. the deterioration) reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression(i.e. even over people that had not committed spiritual lawlessness/wickedness)"

Blessings

Origin of Satan

"Let not your heart be troubled"

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