Orgnanized (Christian) Religion

[hamster_head]

Well, first, there is a maze of forum areas here, so I hope this is the most appropriate place for this.

Anyhow, certainly there is a great emphasis on organized religion and the new church in the new testament. I'm wondering, though, are there any direct statements from Jesus that encourage religion in this organized manner? I guess the question is, bibically, how do we know Jesus was in favor of church as it exists today?

 

[desi]

Well, first, there is a maze of forum areas here, so I hope this is the most appropriate place for this.

Anyhow, certainly there is a great emphasis on organized religion and the new church in the new testament. I'm wondering, though, are there any direct statements from Jesus that encourage religion in this organized manner? I guess the question is, bibically, how do we know Jesus was in favor of church as it exists today?

We don't know.

 

[drdeancrosby]

Ham actually there is NOT an emphasis on organized religion and churches in the new testamemt.Some of the few references are in Paul's letters which contain criticism of the church.Jesus himself never established a single church.He was a field preacher,very seldom speaking inside a building.His comments about clergy show that He held the profession in utter contempt.In fact consistently Jesus condemned and threatened with hell clergymen.So it's not at all surprising that many churches today are Christian in name only,especially since we have now come into the age of apostasy in Christian history.For instance,many ministers would be frightened and would have no idea what to do if the Holy Spirit ever showed up in their church and started working miracles during the service.Jesus spent a full one-third of His time praying for the sick.Very few ministers do any personal praying for the sick because they know that God just ignores their prayers do to their spiritual condition. And then there is the American flag that many ministers love to preach in front of.Since no American nation is mentioned in the bible and since the United States has now become one of the most sin-ridden nations in the entire history of the world,run by leaders who preach hate,revenge and war in contrast to Jesus' teachings of love,forgiveness and peace;don't you wonder why ministers put the American flag next to their pulpits? It causes you to wonder what brand of Christianity is being taught.The bottom line on churches is that they are useful for education,counseling,fellowship,live music,and religious ceremonies but they should only be a part of a Christian's spiritual life.The complete explanation of Christianity can only be found in the bible and salvation can only be found through a baptism of the Holy Spirit resulting in a personal relationship with Jesus,something which you don't need to show up in church to receive.

 

[seangoh]

Well, first, there is a maze of forum areas here, so I hope this is the most appropriate place for this.

Anyhow, certainly there is a great emphasis on organized religion and the new church in the new testament. I'm wondering, though, are there any direct statements from Jesus that encourage religion in this organized manner? I guess the question is, bibically, how do we know Jesus was in favor of church as it exists today?

Very good question. So far i can think of one answer.

"Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: 20And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. 21Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee."Ex 18:19-22

The phrase organised religion is already telling that there is some form of organisation in management. And that itself makes running it efficient. Imagine if there were no organised religion, then i can't imagine how it'd be like. The spirit of oneness wouldn't be there because each has his/her own opinion and each would be selfish. On the other hand, if a group of believers exist together, then they will care for each other and will dialogue together on their beliefs and clear their doubts. THat would have a higher chance of obtaining the "oneness."

 

[hamster_head]

I didn't like that translation much, so I look it up in mine (New Living). =P It reads as:

"Now let me give you a word of advice, and may God be with you. You should continue to be the people's representative before God, bringing him their questions to be decided. You should tell them God's decisions, teach them God's laws and instructions, and show them how to conduct their lives. But find some capable, honest men who fear God and hate bribes. Appoint them as judges over groups of one thousand, one hundred, fifty, and ten. These men can serve the people, resolving all the ordinary cases. Anything that is too important or too complicated can be brought to you. But they can take care of the smaller matters themselves. They will help you carry the load, making the task easier for you."

I'm not really so sure how much this has to do with the modern protestant church. Although, the heirarchy it sets up reminds me somewhat of the Catholic church. It's hard to take very serious any old testament statements on practice of religion, because we know that after Jesus came it completely rewrote how salvation and communication with God worked (the Holy Spirit). Of course, the problem with me believing this was ever God's will, is that God is not the one who said it. This statement was given by Moses's Father-in-Law, and from what I can tell, he never even claims that his opinion on the matter was God's message to Moses.

 

[seangoh]

I'm not really so sure how much this has to do with the modern protestant church. Although, the heirarchy it sets up reminds me somewhat of the Catholic church. It's hard to take very serious any old testament statements on practice of religion, because we know that after Jesus came it completely rewrote how salvation and communication with God worked (the Holy Spirit). Of course, the problem with me believing this was ever God's will, is that God is not the one who said it. This statement was given by Moses's Father-in-Law, and from what I can tell, he never even claims that his opinion on the matter was God's message to Moses.

Well, the main point it's making is there has to be organisation otherwise things will fail. Look at the secular world and the fortune 500 companies. Without organisation they will fail. Same thing in the spiritual aspect of religion. I think we have much to learn from the secular world..forgot which text is that.