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Ordination

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Judilyn

Once Ej or Erin-Joy now Judilyn or Lynn .
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I have a question maybe someone can give me some insight into. :confused:

Does a person need to have a 5 fold ministry :prayer:prophet, pastor, evangelist, etc) call on their life in order to be ordained and to have the title Reverend? Or is ordination simply a recognition of God given talents and abilities that you are using in order to serve him and further His Kingdom?

I have been curious :scratch:about this for a while. I have seen chruches do it both ways. Some say only 5 fold can be ordained and others say that ordination is just a special spiritual recognition,not just for 5 fold ministry.

What do you think?

EJ
 

SavedByGrace3

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Erin-Joy said:
I have a question maybe someone can give me some insight into. :confused:

Does a person need to have a 5 fold ministry :prayer:prophet, pastor, evangelist, etc) call on their life in order to be ordained and to have the title Reverend? Or is ordination simply a recognition of God given talents and abilities that you are using in order to serve him and further His Kingdom?

I have been curious :scratch:about this for a while. I have seen chruches do it both ways. Some say only 5 fold can be ordained and others say that ordination is just a special spiritual recognition,not just for 5 fold ministry.

What do you think?

EJ
Most churches do not believe the 5 fold ministry exists anymore. When is the last time you saw an apostle or prophet in a Baptist church?

About the only places you will find such things are in the small independant churches that do have have national/international reach. Most of these are charismatic/wof in teaching (Kenneth Hagin is a prophet).
In 95% of the big churches, you have to have a degree in theology. That somehow qualifies you for ministry. So if you have the time money and brains, you can become an ordained minister in one of these. Nothing to do with a calling. More like a career.:wave:
 
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Judilyn

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I can not remember the last time I saw a prophet in a baptist church, to think about it I do not think I ever have!

The reason I ask is because every other year our church does a huge week long conference. Many other ordained individuals come to this conference. Each time we have it there are a few indiivduals from our own church who become ordained :priest:at the ordination service. Every time we do this it of course starts a few of the people in our congregation to get thier noses bent out of shape :mad:and begin questioning who can and who can not become ordained. (It is the enemy using them to create strife and division thorugh a jealous spirit:cry:) Too bad they do not see it happening.:rolleyes:

Thanks for you input, I appreciate it.

EJ
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Inlove said:
Yea I go to a baptist church and we have 3 prophets in my church that I know of.
opps.. I did not mean to pick on your church friend
oops.gif


Some of the strongest and best Christians I have met are baptists.
clap.gif


Ken Copeland says there are more baptists than there are people!
biggrin.gif
 
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TheScottsMen

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###

God does the calling not man.
Jesus I am so in love with you

###

I always get a kick out of ppl who think because I am in college for the Ministry there is something wrong with that. Have you ever thought that those who are in college for the ministry just might have a calling to be there? Some so called Christians can be such hypocrites to those that are in college. The reason some go to college is so Churches take them seriously when they apply for a pastorate position. To many times I have seen a non-trained Christian preaching in the church and the church not being able to handle their finances and going belly up.

Do you need to go to college to preach? Of course not! But must you have experience? YES! Not only am I receiving a education in the ministry the college also helps in regards to all aspects of a Pastor's duties and allows us to setup times to speak in front of hundreds all over the state.

I think God for his promises of fulfilling all my needs in regards to finances to put myself and my wife through college. I'm 22 and have never taken a loan in my life! Gods my loan, and has paid for every cent of my non financial aid college;)

Anyway's, sure I'll get flamed. But my main point again. Do you need college? No. Does college bring experience? Yes. Does one need experience? Yes. Its to bad that many Theology colleges do not bring any of these nor do they have the spirit to teach for the ministry but a secular ministry training.
 
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TheScottsMen

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BTW: If there are any Christians here who live in Minnesota and are interested in attending a GREAT Spirit filled college I recommend Maranatha Christian College. I have been to other state universities for computer science and other majors but not ONE is anything like Maranatha. Before joining, we have to sign a faith statement and start every class with devotions by a class member. Do they work with you? You better believe it! My wife had our baby during finals last semester and they gave us a 1 1/2 months to finish them! If we needed longer, they would have gave it to us. I remember a test in World Religious that I would not be able to attend because of a mission trip I took to Brazil. What did my professor do? Gave me the test to take while on the trip. That's trust. The college does not accept finical aid due to regulations they would have to accept by the state. Such as teaching evolution as a fact as most colleges do or other horrible things. Don't get me wrong. We have Creation Science classes but with creation mind;) My total tuition for myself and my wife for this entire year including books was $3600. Which we could have paid monthly if we wish over a one year span. Can't afford it? Ask God for the need. He will supply it.
 
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Polycarp1

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Great topic, Erin Joy!

First, to address your specific question: no, a pastor need not have the fivefold ministry, and probably will not, to be ordained. What he does need is one of the gifts, and the humility to recognize what he does not have, and to allow the raising up from the congregation those who will serve in the roles he is not equipped for.

Scriptural justification:
And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps (diakonoi), administrations, varieties of tongues.

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? (I Cor. 12:28-30)
Paul obviously expects a "No" answer to the series of questions. To cite an example from my own experience, the rector (chief pastor) of a church we were members of for 20 years was a brilliant administrator and excellent preacher and teacher, but horrible at the pastoral-counseling ministry -- and wise enough to realize this, and so caused the church to call an outstanding clergyman as his "pastoral associate" with the specific task of handling pastoral visitation and counseling, which he was excellent at. That man was poor at administration and mediocre at preaching, and so had had difficulty at being called to churches on his own, but was one of the most gifted persons I've ever met at one-on-one ministry. And they fit together as a spectacularly good team, until the rector took ill and retired.

But there is a deeper question, and one singularly important to the ordained ministry: what constitutes a valid calling?

I would suggest that there are three necessary steps, none of which can be omitted:

1. The person seeking ordination must feel himself called by the Holy Spirit to the ordained ministry.

2. Those in authority over the church must put him through a discernment process to assure themselves that his calling is indeed valid, and then arrange for his training in the skills which he will need to be an effective minister.

Two comments are in order here: There is no way for an individual to himself distinguish between a true call by the Holy Spirit and his own ego deceiving him. The discernment process is to validate the call, not to exclude those truly called for secular political reasons, as unfortunately sometimes happens. Second, it is very rare for a person to have the natural gifts that equip him for immediate ordination, and even these can be honed. Preaching a good sermon is a learned art, homiletics, and the minister-to-be must be equipped to be able to read the Scriptures in the original languages and explicate them to those under his care as a teacher. He must understand thoroughly the doctrines of his church and why they are important. And he must be equipped in the skills necessary for pastoral care of his congregation. None of thse require a seminary education, but that is the mode prescribed by most churches as the effective way to get a concentrated background in them all.

3. He must be formally commissioned to the ministry which he is to undertake by those empowered to do so.

In my own church, which adheres to the Apostolic Successoion, proclaiming the Word of God officially with the authority of the Church and ministering the Sacraments are gifts transmitted by the laying on of hands with prayer by the bishops, who received it from the bishops preceding them, on back to the apostles and Christ Himself. My own name on these boards reflects my patron saint, whom I try to emulate, who was ordained as the Bishop of Smyrna by John the Beloved Discple, and from whom I can trace a direct lineage through Theodore of Tarsus and William White to Ned Cole, who laid hands on me to confirm me with the gifts of the Holy Spirit in my ministry as a layman.

In other churches, of course, the commissioning may be done by the local church, through its leadership, or by the pastors of neighboring churches. But the new minister must undertake vows to do the work to which he is called and be formally set apart to that work by those who are so designated to do that setting apart.

Skip any one of these steps, and trouble is in the offing. Self-appointed men will undertake ministries to which they have not been called. Men not called will be passed for ordination. Untrained men will do a poor job of ministry. And people will fail to keep vows which they have not made, and have no accountability for their ministry.
 
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