Ordinances

Leaf473 · Oct 12, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
So you again are changing the context- my post you are replying to is about who wrote the laws, not who gave them.

Maybe this will be easier and if you disagree, please quote the scripture that proves otherwise-make sure you post which version you're using, which is not something I normally see you do.

Exodus 31:18 And when He (God) had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God. NKJV

The only commandments in the entire scripture both written by the finger of God and spoken by God was the Ten Commandants. Exodus 20 Only the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells.

If you have scripture that disagrees, please provide your proof.

I didn't think I changed the focus of your post. My post ends with talking about writing:
"Did Moses's hand write the whole law, statutes, and ordinances?"

I don't know if I agree or disagree with what you say in the OP, because I'm not sure what you are saying there. That's why I was asking.

I normally quote out of the World English Bible. It's public domain, so no attribution is required. The only reason I bring it up at this time is because I wanted to quote the Bible quote out of your post, so if it wasn't from a public domain bible, I wanted to give proper attribution.

SabbathBlessings said:
The only commandments in the entire scripture both written by the finger of God and spoken by God was the Ten Commandants. Exodus 20 Only the Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy where God dwells.

Yes, I agree with that.

Now, in the context of writing, what did Moses write with his hand? Is it all of the instructions except for the Ten commandments?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

SabbathBlessings · Oct 12, 2022

Leaf473 said:
I didn't think I changed the focus of your post. My post ends with talking about writing:
"Did Moses's hand write the whole law, statutes, and ordinances?"

I don't know if I agree or disagree with what you say in the OP, because I'm not sure what you are saying there. That's why I was asking.

I normally quote out of the World English Bible. It's public domain, so no attribution is required. The only reason I bring it up at this time is because I wanted to quote the Bible quote out of your post, so if it wasn't from a public domain bible, I wanted to give proper attribution.

Yes, I agree with that.

Now, in the context of writing, what did Moses write with his hand? Is it all of the instructions except for the Ten commandments?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

Moses hand-wrote the other laws given by God in a book. Deuteronomy 31:24. God wrote His law- the Ten Commandments with His own finger on stone. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28

Leaf473 · Oct 13, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Moses hand-wrote the other laws given by God in a book. Deuteronomy 31:24. God wrote His law- the Ten Commandments with His own finger on stone. Exodus 31:18, Exodus 34:28

Good! So following that train of thought,

The laws that God wrote with his finger on stone, those are permanent.

The laws that Moses wrote with his hand in a book, those were temporary.

Are those reasonable conclusions?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

SabbathBlessings · Oct 13, 2022

Leaf473 said:
Good! So following that train of thought,

The laws that God wrote with his finger on stone, those are permanent.

The laws that Moses wrote with his hand in a book, those were temporary.

Are those reasonable conclusions?

And may the peace of the Lord be always with you!

There will never be a time where we should not love God with all of our hearts taken directly from the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 We love God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

What ended according to the scriptures are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances that point to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin. Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 10, Eph 2:15 There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break the Ten Commandants which of course includes the Sabbath. The saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 and we should all pray, we can be one of God's saints.

Anyway, I will need to run for now, hope you have a blessed day.

Leaf473 · Oct 13, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
There will never be a time where we should not love God with all of our hearts taken directly from the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 We love God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

What ended according to the scriptures in the posts are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances that point to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin. Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 10, Eph 2:15 There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break the Ten Commandants which of course includes the Sabbath. The saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 and we should all pray, we can be one of God's saints.

Anyway, I will need to run for now, hope you have a blessed day.

I see. So,

The laws that God wrote with his finger on stone, those are permanent.

The laws that are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances that Moses wrote with his hand in a book, those were temporary.

All the other laws that Moses wrote with his hand in a book, those are permanent.

Are those reasonable conclusions?

The Peace of the Lord be with you always!

Leaf473 · Oct 15, 2022

Continuing with the train of thought that the laws that Moses wrote with his hand in a book are permanent except for are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances,

You shall [g]rise before the gray headed and honor the presence of an old man, and fear your God: I am the Lord.
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 19 - New King James Version

I don't know of anyone who carefully observes this law to the letter, so I think this train of thought doesn't work.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 15, 2022

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Exodus 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he neither ate bread nor drank water. And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

There is a theme in scripture that the commandments, which is clearly noted are not the same as the other laws, in both Old and New Testament that keeping the commandments is the whole duty of man and what matters.

Ecclesiastics 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep His commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Love to God is keeping the commandments 1 John 5:3 which is what God said right in the Ten. Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God Exodus 20:8-11 and the commandment God told us to Remember and keep. We should always obey God over man.

Happy Sabbath all!

Leaf473 · Oct 15, 2022

Another interesting ordinance that isn't part of the sacrificial systems is

You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard.
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 19 - New King James Version

Soyeong · Oct 15, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
It seems to be a common theme for those who think the Sabbath commandment ended to use Colossians 2:16-17. I would like to take a look at this scriptures and see if what Paul is talking about is one of God’s commandments.

The first step is understanding if commandments are ordinances.

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

Scripture shows ordinances are not commandments and commandments are not ordinances- they are separated.

Most when quoting Colossians 2:16-17 never back up to Colossians 2:14 for some reason which plainly gives the context.

Colossians 2:14
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way? Absolutely not.
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God Exodus 31:18
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed Exodus 20:8-11

Colossians 2:14 certainly does not fit with the Sabbath commandment so not sure why so many people try to force this to fit despite the facts clearly showing it is not referring to the weekly Sabbath commandment.

Are there other sabbath(s) in scripture called ordinances that would lead us to the correct context of this passage? What does the scripture say?

2 Chronicles 33:8
Neither will I any more remove the foot of Israel from out of the land which I have appointed for your fathers; so that they will take heed to do all that I have commanded them, according to the whole law and the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.

Moses hand-wrote the ordinances and the hand of Moses is not the same as the finger of God.

Ezekiel 43:18
And He said to me, “Son of man, thus says the Lord God: ‘These are the ordinances for the altar on the day when it is made, for sacrificing burnt offerings on it, and for sprinkling blood on it.

So what is Colossians 2:14-17 talking about? The sacrificial system in the annual sabbath(s) feast-day ordinances that was used for the forgiveness of sins. These all point to Jesus because He became of sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we turn from sin and through Jesus He can give us a new heart and enables us to keep His commandments through love and faith. John 14:15-18, Romans 3:31. The blood of animals made nothing perfect Hebrews 10, but the blood of Christ can cleanse from all sins, when we turn from sin and walk with Christ in obedience to Him. The annual sacrificial sabbath(s) all came after the fall of man. The seventh day Sabbath was part of Creation Genesis 2:1-3 and was part of God’s perfect plan before the fall of man.

There is no scripture that says we can break the commandments of God. The Sabbath is part of a unit of Ten Exodus 34:28 that God placed together and cannot be separated, changed, deleted or removed. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 and Paul quotes right to the 10 to point out sin. Romans 7:7

It’s sad so much energy goes in trying to disprove one of God’s finger-written Ten Commandments instead of just obeying God.

Happy Sabbath!

The fact that a Hebrew word and a Greek word can both be translated as "ordinances" does not mean that those words have the same meaning. The Greek word "dogma" is used five times in the Bible, not once is it used in regard to God's law. The sacrificial system is part of God's law and nothing in Scripture says that we can break God's law.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 16, 2022

Soyeong said:
The fact that a Hebrew word and a Greek word can both be translated as "ordinances" does not mean that those words have the same meaning. The Greek word "dogma" is used five times in the Bible, not once is it used in regard to God's law. The sacrificial system is part of God's law and nothing in Scripture says that we can break God's law.

Not all laws are in the same category do you agree?

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

The sacrificial system is part of God’s ordinances Numbers 9:12, Ezekiel 43:18 that pointed to Christ on the cross. Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 10. Christ became our sacrificial Lamb for all sins. If we continue sacrificing the blood of animals for the forgiveness of sins, we are denying what Christ has done for each of us at the cross, who can cleanse us from all sin when we confess, repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:7

The blood of animals was not perfect to forgive sins but the blood of Christ is perfect to forgive all sins and cleanse us from all sin.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What did not end at the cross was the law and commandments that points out sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7

Soyeong · Oct 16, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Not all laws are in the same category do you agree?

Nehemiah 9:13
“You came down also on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven, And gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments.

The sacrificial system is part of God’s ordinances Numbers 9:12, Ezekiel 43:18 that pointed to Christ on the cross. Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 10. Christ became our sacrificial Lamb for all sins. If we continue sacrificing the blood of animals for the forgiveness of sins, we are denying what Christ has done for each of us at the cross, who can cleanse us from all sin when we confess, repent and turn from sin and walk with Him in obedience. Acts 2:38, 1 John 1:7

The blood of animals was not perfect to forgive sins but the blood of Christ is perfect to forgive all sins and cleanse us from all sin.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

What did not end at the cross was the law and commandments that points out sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7

I agree that not all laws are in the same category. However, you are still making the error of equivocation by translating both the Hebrew "mishpatim" and the Greek word "dogma" as "ordinances" and then treating those words as though they are referring to the same thing when they are actually referring to completely different things, neither of which refers to the sacrificial system. The Greek word "dogma" does not even refer to any of God's laws, so Colossians 2:14 is not referring to any of God's laws being ended on the cross, especially because Jesus specifically said in Matthew 5:17-19 that he came not to abolish the law and warned against relaxing the least part of the law or teaching others to do the same, so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning. The Hebrew word "mishpatim" refers to laws in regard to righteousness and justice, and in Psalms 119:160, it specifically says that the mishpatim are eternal. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which is inclusive of the sacrificial system.

God's laws teach us how to testify about Christ and we should live in a way that testifies about Christ through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20), while it would be returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from that is what would be denying what Christ has done for each of us on the cross.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 16, 2022

Soyeong said:
I agree that not all laws are in the same category. However, you are still making the error of equivocation by translating both the Hebrew "mishpatim" and the Greek word "dogma" as "ordinances" and then treating those words as though they are referring to the same thing when they are actually referring to completely different things, neither of which refers to the sacrificial system. The Greek word "dogma" does not even refer to any of God's laws, so Colossians 2:14 is not referring to any of God's laws being ended on the cross, especially because Jesus specifically said in Matthew 5:17-19 that he came not to abolish the law and warned against relaxing the least part of the law or teaching others to do the same, so you are calling him a liar and disregarding his warning. The Hebrew word "mishpatim" refers to laws in regard to righteousness and justice, and in Psalms 119:160, it specifically says that the mishpatim are eternal. In Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the mishpatim and the chukim, which is inclusive of the sacrificial system.

God's laws teach us how to testify about Christ and we should live in a way that testifies about Christ through faith. In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to God's law is the way to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Acts 21:20), while it would be returning to the lawlessness that he gave himself to redeem us from that is what would be denying what Christ has done for each of us on the cross.

So do you sacrifice animals for the forgiveness of sin or do you believe that the blood of Jesus can cleanse us from all sins?

DamianWarS · Oct 17, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Paul writes to the Galatians (Gal 5:6) "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

we should be able to draw some conclusions from comparing these texts.

For example: what doesn't matter according to 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6?
can agree this is circumcision?

what remains then is what does matter which is the point of these verses (explicitly). According to 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6 what does matter is "keeping the commandments of God/faith expressing itself through love"

Since Paul does not conflict with Paul can we conclude that Paul is addressing the same point?

Assuming we agree can we then make this statement:
keeping the commandments of God = faith expressing itself through love
and/or
faith expressing itself through love = keeping the commandments of God

does this seem like a logical conclusion based on the presented texts? This should then lay to rest what Paul is referring to when he addresses the commandments of God since his parallel reference defines it.

the issue with taking translated Greek terms and using them to specifically address translated Hebrew terms is they are not actually the same words and without context they are ambiguous but in terms of their specificity would have to be better qualified in their references. Lacking these qualifiers we need to use the tools we have to define them, Paul, fortunately, does just that and we are able to responsibly define what God's commandments are in the context of 1 Cor 7:19 and it turns out it is a focus of love. Is this consistent with scripture? Yes, since Christ tells us that the greatest commandment is of love, first to God then to our neighbour. There is a very consistent thread that moves away from addressing specific laws of the old and redefining them through a context of love or as Paul put's it "expressing our faith through love"

So rather than use these verses to point backwards which is cannot be supported we should be looking at it in a reverse approach, that the law, in fact, points forwards. it's not that the law is not valued or broken today it's that through Christ our focus is more driven on the purpose than it is the letter, and the purpose should not be overlooked or undervalued. This is the spirit of the law written upon our hearts which innately is an abstract concept that is fluid not static such as that which is written upon stone. (2 Cor 2:2). if that which is written upon our hearts is a mirror of that which is written upon stone then we don't need the spirit because the stone was complete, but that is not the case so the Spirit must direct us in harmony with the stone yet beyond it, if the Spirit cannot then the spirit is redundant and is not needed. I'm sure we can agree that is not the case.

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2022

DamianWarS said:
Paul writes to the Galatians (Gal 5:6) "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

we should be able to draw some conclusions from comparing these texts.

For example: what doesn't matter according to 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6?
can agree this is circumcision?

what remains then is what does matter which is the point of these verses (explicitly). According to 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6 what does matter is "keeping the commandments of God/faith expressing itself through love"

Since Paul does not conflict with Paul can we conclude that Paul is addressing the same point?

Assuming we agree can we then make this statement:
keeping the commandments of God = faith expressing itself through love
and/or
faith expressing itself through love = keeping the commandments of God

does this seem like a logical conclusion based on the presented texts? This should then lay to rest what Paul is referring to when he addresses the commandments of God since his parallel reference defines it.

the issue with taking translated Greek terms and using them to specifically address translated Hebrew terms is they are not actually the same words and without context they are ambiguous but in terms of their specificity would have to be better qualified in their references. Lacking these qualifiers we need to use the tools we have to define them, Paul, fortunately, does just that and we are able to responsibly define what God's commandments are in the context of 1 Cor 7:19 and it turns out it is a focus of love. Is this consistent with scripture? Yes, since Christ tells us that the greatest commandment is of love, first to God then to our neighbour. There is a very consistent thread that moves away from addressing specific laws of the old and redefining them through a context of love or as Paul put's it "expressing our faith through love"

So rather than use these verses to point backwards which is cannot be supported we should be looking at it in a reverse approach, that the law, in fact, points forwards. it's not that the law is not valued or broken today it's that through Christ our focus is more driven on the purpose than it is the letter, and the purpose should not be overlooked or undervalued. This is the spirit of the law written upon our hearts which innately is an abstract concept that is fluid not static such as that which is written upon stone. (2 Cor 2:2). if that which is written upon our hearts is a mirror of that which is written upon stone then we don't need the spirit because the stone was complete, but that is not the case so the Spirit must direct us in harmony with the stone yet beyond it, if the Spirit cannot then the spirit is redundant and is not needed. I'm sure we can agree that is not the case.

Scripture does not delete scripture, but instead they work in harmony.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Does this mean we can disregard what Paul said here?

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Of course not. We already know Paul teaches that people with faith upholds the law Romans 3:31 and people who have faith in Jesus keep the commandments of God. Revelation 14:12

Thats sounds pretty harmonious. What about love. Do people with love also keep the commandments of God?

Clear scripture tells us so....

This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

Both scriptures working harmoniously together instead of against each other. and there is no scripture that tells us we can only go one direction with scripture.

The Spirit of the law is in harmony with the letter of the law. The Spirit is greater than the letter and one cannot keep the Spirit of the law by breaking the letter.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

DamianWarS · Oct 17, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
Scripture does not delete scripture, but instead they work in harmony.

Galatians 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Does this mean we can disregard what Paul said here?

1 Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

Of course not. We already know Paul teaches that people with faith upholds the law Romans 3:31 and people who have faith in Jesus keep the commandments of God. Revelation14:12

Thats sounds pretty harmonious. What about love. Do people with love also keep the commandments of God?

Clear scripture tells us so....

This is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. 1 John 5:3

Both scriptures working harmoniously together instead of against each other. and there is no scripture that tells us we can only go one direction with scripture.

The Spirit of the law is in harmony with the letter of the law. The Spirit is greater than the letter and one cannot keep the Spirit of the law by breaking the letter.

Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

You're predefining the NT use of "God commandments" which is unsubstantiated using circulate references. 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6 comparison is far more responsible but they are not two separate points, they are the same points. Paul tells us faith upholds the law (Rom 3:31) as you pointed out but it does not say the law upholds faith (which Rom 3 explicltly rejects) so it is only through faith in Christ we may be righteous, not through the law of which righteousness is unobtainable. To have faith point to requirment within law would conflict Paul not agree with him. Law is not there so we may be righteous, it is there so we may know we cannot be righteous.

Which is better? God's finger or his breath, body and blood? You seem to hold to the former, 2 Cor 3:3 explicltly demphazies the stone to the emphasize the letter of Christ and the spirit of the living God written upon our hearts. Can we agree that according to this verse God's finger is not the highest standard?

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2022

DamianWarS said:
You're predefining the NT use of "God commandments" which is unsubstantiated using circulate references. 1 Cor 7:19 and Gal 5:6 comparison is far more responsible but they are not two separate points, they are the same points. Paul tells us faith upholds the law (Rom 3:31) as you pointed out but it does not say the law upholds faith (which Rom 3 explicltly rejects) so it is only through faith in Christ we may be righteous, not through the law of which righteousness is unobtainable. To have faith point to requirment within law would conflict Paul not agree with him. Law is not there so we may be righteous, it is there so we may know we cannot be righteous.

Which is better? God's finger or his breath, body and blood? You seem to hold to the former, 2 Cor 3:3 explicltly demphazies the stone to the emphasize the letter of Christ and the spirit of the living God written upon our hearts. Can we agree that according to this verse God's finger is not the highest standard?

No I am using God's definition of His commandments, which He tells us right in the Ten what are His commandments. Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

I don't think the finger of God is in conflict with the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus died for the forgiveness and sanctification of our sins, when we repent (have a changed heart) and turn from sin. God's law is what defines sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7. Jesus came to save us from sin Matthew 1:21 not in our sins. We can gain victor over sin (breaking God's law) through Jesus Christ.

We are getting pretty far off topic anyway....

Leaf473 · Oct 17, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
There will never be a time where we should not love God with all of our hearts taken directly from the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 6:4-5 We love God by keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, Exodus 20:6

What ended according to the scriptures are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances that point to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin. Colossians 2:14-17, Hebrews 10, Eph 2:15 There is no scripture in the entire bible that says we can break the Ten Commandants which of course includes the Sabbath. The saints keep the commandments of God Revelation 14:12 and we should all pray, we can be one of God's saints.

Anyway, I will need to run for now, hope you have a blessed day.

______________________

SabbathBlessings said:
What ended according to the scriptures are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances that point to Jesus who because our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin.

Hey SB,
Not trying to nail you to the wall here or anything... Just trying to figure out what's going on in your mind

So the above makes it sound like all that ended is the sacrificial system laws. But in post #1347 here
Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]
it sounds like it's only the Ten commandments that didn't end, that we will be judged by.

What's the story?

The Peace of the Lord be always with you!

SabbathBlessings · Oct 17, 2022

Leaf473 said:
______________________

Hey SB,
Not trying to nail you to the wall here or anything... Just trying to figure out what's going on in your mind

So the above makes it sound like all that ended is the sacrificial system laws. But in post #1347 here
Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]
it sounds like it's only the Ten commandments that didn't end, that we will be judged by.

What's the story?

The Peace of the Lord be always with you!

I never said only the Ten Commandments didn't end, I said it is what we will be judged by according to the scriptures.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Also, we spoke about in past time, Jesus came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 and quotes directly from the Ten as the example Matthew 5:19-30 so the Ten Commandments are much greater than what is written, but is not changing any of them.

Hope this helps.

DamianWarS · Oct 17, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
No I am using God's definition of His commandments, which He tells us right in the Ten what are His commandments. Exodus 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

I don't think the finger of God is in conflict with the sacrifice of Jesus. Jesus died for the forgiveness and sanctification of our sins, when we repent (have a changed heart) and turn from sin. God's law is what defines sin 1 John 3:4 and Paul points right to the Ten Commandments to define sin Romans 7:7. Jesus came to save us from sin Matthew 1:21 not in our sins. We can gain victor over sin (breaking God's law) through Jesus Christ.

We are getting pretty far off topic anyway....

So how is that definition made? It's not exactly clear how you've accomplished this? Is not Gal 5:6 a definition? If we are placing scripture above scripture 2 Cor 3:3 places the tablets in a lower position so using the finger of God statement to elevate scripture above all else would fall apart since scripture itself does the opposite. Does not scripture tell us that all scripture is God breathed? Which is better, his finger or his breath? Perhaps you've taken this finger of God statement too far in danger of missing the point.

Leaf473 · Oct 18, 2022

SabbathBlessings said:
I never said only the Ten Commandments didn't end, I said it is what we will be judged by according to the scriptures.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

Also, we spoke about in past time, Jesus came to magnify the law Isaiah 42:21 and quotes directly from the Ten as the example Matthew 5:19-30 so the Ten Commandments are much greater than what is written, but is not changing any of them.

Hope this helps.

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Okay... So we have this

SabbathBlessings said:
What ended according to the scriptures are the sacrificial systems in the ordinances...

and this

SabbathBlessings said:
I never said only the Ten Commandments didn't end, I said it is what we will be judged by according to the scriptures.

So... Of the things that Moses wrote with his hand that aren't part of the sacrificial systems in the ordinances, do you believe we will be judged by all of those things?

The Peace of the Lord be always with you!

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