Ordained Pastor? No really?

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Gerry
Thanks for this understanding and helping me to explain my point. It is indeed time for us all to look inwardly and reflect on where we are in a relationship with Jesus and if we are being obedient to His commands, especially as concerns the Body, and what we are doing to reproduce ourselves, and exibit the fruit of the Spirit.

Gerry,

You are correct in saying that "judgement starts with the believers first".  I know that's part of a scripture, I just can't think of it right now. 

It is also important for each of us to know that we each have a different understanding of what is expected of us.  We each are at different points in our walk with Christ.

Some of us, as myself, have walked with Jesus for a very long time.  I accepted Jesus in my heart as a child of around 4 years old and I'm 48 now. 

I have walked as closely as I've known how.  I know the scriptures very well and I believe I apply them correctly to my own walk and when others are willing to listen, I am willing to teach.  I take that seriously, knowing that as a teacher, I have more required of me. 

Yet, there are some on these threads who would accuse me of being a false teacher.  Yet, as I stand before God, He does not accuse me of those things.  There are corrections made here and there but basically, I feel His smile.

Saying all that, I can only conclude that I can answer to God for myself only.  I cannot force someone to "see" what I see, or "hear" what I hear.  I can teach them if they are interested but at the end it's what they choose to see and hear and believe.

If at this moment we were to make rules and start kicking those we dissagree with out, we would all end up on the cutting room floor.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of "pastors"  who really are not and in the end they will be dealt with.

As for the rest of us, like you said, we need to look inward and allow God to deal with us about ourselves and let Him deal with everybody else in the same way.  As I believe lambslove pointed out . . .we can pray and live our own life to the best of our ability as a shining light in a very dark world. 

 

 

[paulewog]

I always thought a pastor was ordained by that denomination. So like, if you're a Baptist pastor, you typically don't go get a job in a Methodist church.

And, by the way, the way my pastor, pastor's son, and youth pastor were ordained was not easy by any means. They liked drilled them with questions all day, hehe

 

[Gerry]

This will be my last word on the subject. I am not pointing my fingers at anyone, no matter who thinks or says differently. A simple reading of my post will reveal that.

In reply to a post about false teachers and teaching, I have quoted Jesus and stated my opinion. I will do that yet again. I am sorry to upset anyone, but Christianity is a religion of absolutes. It does not teach situation ethics. And it matters not where we are in our walk.

It was pointed out that each of us have a "different understanding" of what is required of us. THAT is exactly my point. The Word of God is very clear that we BETTER have the RIGHT understanding of what is expected of us, especially since it is layed out so clearly in simple terms.

But if loving one another to the point of a willingness to die for one another, or praying for one another, is beyond understanding, Jesus made it real simple by saying that we are to treat one another like we want others to treat us. My point is, it doesn't take much to understand that, especially since we have been given the Holy Spirit to guide us into all Truth.

Now if we have GOD, HIMSELF, to guide us in sand box Christianity, and we are still not understanding then We have a problem. That is why I said we need to look inside and see where we are.

I say that because I care. I do not want anyone to die and go to hell, thinking they were saved because they have been incorrectly taught by man rather correctly taught by The Holy Spirit.

Hell is too hot and too long and too horrible, and it is not my desire to see anyone go there.

 

[AngelAmidala]

Originally posted by paulewog
I always thought a pastor was ordained by that denomination. So like, if you're a Baptist pastor, you typically don't go get a job in a Methodist church.  

I can tell you that I felt that way too.  Until my pastor's husband got a job.  He was trained and ordained as a Baptist pastor.  But now is a pastor for a United Methodist church. 

I'm not sure if I really agree with that though...because he doesn't really know all the ins and outs of United Methodism...which he would've gotten at a UMC seminary.

He's a great guy and really knowledgeable about the Bible and stuff.  But he doesn't really know a whole lot about the UMC Book of Disicipline...how the UMC churches are to be run...which sometimes aggrivates and frustrates members of his church.  (I know this happened at a church he worked at for a few years as a 1/2 time pastor until he got his full-time assignment last year.)

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Gerry
This will be my last word on the subject. I am not pointing my fingers at anyone, no matter who thinks or says differently. A simple reading of my post will reveal that.

In reply to a post about false teachers and teaching, I have quoted Jesus and stated my opinion. I will do that yet again. I am sorry to upset anyone, but Christianity is a religion of absolutes. It does not teach situation ethics. And it matters not where we are in our walk.

It was pointed out that each of us have a "different understanding" of what is required of us. THAT is exactly my point. The Word of God is very clear that we BETTER have the RIGHT understanding of what is expected of us, especially since it is layed out so clearly in simple terms.

But if loving one another to the point of a willingness to die for one another, or praying for one another, is beyond understanding, Jesus made it real simple by saying that we are to treat one another like we want others to treat us. My point is, it doesn't take much to understand that, especially since we have been given the Holy Spirit to guide us into all Truth.

Now if we have GOD, HIMSELF, to guide us in sand box Christianity, and we are still not understanding then We have a problem. That is why I said we need to look inside and see where we are.

I say that because I care. I do not want anyone to die and go to hell, thinking they were saved because they have been incorrectly taught by man rather correctly taught by The Holy Spirit.

Hell is too hot and too long and too horrible, and it is not my desire to see anyone go there.

 

Gerry,

I am truly sorry if I offended you with my comments.  I thought I was agreeing with you.  And as far as I know, I am doing everything that God requires of me.

I can only hope that I would be willing to die for someone else but Jesus already did that.  When we share our lives, our experiences, our knowledge, our lessons, etc, as we are on these forums,  we are in a way laying our lives down for others.  At this point in time that's the only way I can lay my life down.

I do faithfully pray for others.  I do for the most part (like you I'm still changing too) treat others the  way I would want to be treated.  Sometimes that does not mean that I make them feel good.  I try to be gentle and kind.

How can any of us say that we have it all together perfectly?  That absoloutly, without a shadow of a doubt we understand everything perfectly?  I would like to say I do, but none of us will really know until we see Him as He is and face to face.

You're right; length of walk has little to do with it.  But as far as I understand, and I would hope that you feel this way too, we are doing the best we know how.  And the only way we can do better and continue to change is to grow closer to Him and allow Him to change us.

People will go to hell because they reject Jesus as Savior, not because they don't understand everything perfectly. 

 

[Andrew]

Gerry,

you seem very bitter, frustrated and disappointed that other Christians are not living up to your expectations! I get the impression that you are 'there' and others are not. well you may not mean that but it sure comes across that way.

As for false teachers/prophets, the Bible makes it clear these are not Christians, and that they will be around. So our part is to study the Bible and recognise who is annointed of God, and come under their ministry.

btw what is a false teacher (how does the BIble define it)? Is someone who preaches that Mary was sinless a false teacher? Is someone who teaches the baptism of the Holy Spirit with tongues as the sign a false teacher? What about those who preach post trib or pre-trib or immersion as opposed to sprinkling?

 

[Gerry]

Andrew,

Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem. If you are going to dress me down in public read and understand my post first.

 

[Gerry]

Interesting thing here! Where do you get the idea you offended ME?

Originally posted by Quaffer
 

Gerry,

I am truly sorry if I offended you with my comments.  I thought I was agreeing with you.  And as far as I know, I am doing everything that God requires of me.

I can only hope that I would be willing to die for someone else but Jesus already did that.  When we share our lives, our experiences, our knowledge, our lessons, etc, as we are on these forums,  we are in a way laying our lives down for others.  At this point in time that's the only way I can lay my life down.

I do faithfully pray for others.  I do for the most part (like you I'm still changing too) treat others the  way I would want to be treated.  Sometimes that does not mean that I make them feel good.  I try to be gentle and kind.

How can any of us say that we have it all together perfectly?  That absoloutly, without a shadow of a doubt we understand everything perfectly?  I would like to say I do, but none of us will really know until we see Him as He is and face to face.

You're right; length of walk has little to do with it.  But as far as I understand, and I would hope that you feel this way too, we are doing the best we know how.  And the only way we can do better and continue to change is to grow closer to Him and allow Him to change us.

People will go to hell because they reject Jesus as Savior, not because they don't understand everything perfectly. 

 

[coastie]

OK, let's get back on track here. It appears that Gerry and I share the same frustration (as well as others).

The problem is the bad face that we as Christians are getting because of others (like the problem with Catholic priests in the news). In no way should a Priests sin reflect on the religion, however, it does to those who seek to destroy Christianity.

Protestant denominations fall under the same scrutiny for different reasons and it is important that we Christians address this in order to be effective in our ministries.

Someone here said that the best way to combat this growing problem of false teachings is through education, however, our educational systems today (especially in the US) are not copesetic to Christians as they are to Muslims.

How can Christians be heard without the voistrous minority of extremists and extreme Left Winger Christians nullifying our efforts?

 

[Blessed-one]

so it goes into the right interpretation of the bible doesn't it?

 

[coastie]

Originally posted by Blessed-one
so it goes into the right interpretation of the bible doesn't it?

Well, you could take it there, but probably a could case in point would be the so-called reverand Jesse Jackson.

I do not choose to judge his salvation, however, he is definately not leading people to the Lord.

 

[coastie]

But before we get too far off track, please respond to post 29 of this thread.

 

[Andrew]

"Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem."

i dun think so, coastie also thinks u r one frustrated Christian:

"...It appears that Gerry and I share the same frustration (as well as others)."

 

[coastie]

Originally posted by Andrew
"Apparently you have a reading comprehension problem."

i dun think so, coastie also thinks u r one frustrated Christian:

"...It appears that Gerry and I share the same frustration (as well as others)."

Please don't imply other contextual meanings to my posts.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by coastie
OK, let's get back on track here. It appears that Gerry and I share the same frustration (as well as others).

The problem is the bad face that we as Christians are getting because of others (like the problem with Catholic priests in the news). In no way should a Priests sin reflect on the religion, however, it does to those who seek to destroy Christianity.

Protestant denominations fall under the same scrutiny for different reasons and it is important that we Christians address this in order to be effective in our ministries.

Someone here said that the best way to combat this growing problem of false teachings is through education, however, our educational systems today (especially in the US) are not copesetic to Christians as they are to Muslims.

How can Christians be heard without the voistrous minority of extremists and extreme Left Winger Christians nullifying our efforts?

I sometimes get frustrated over the issue too.  Like co-workers who tell everyone their christians, yet lie, cheat, get drunk, gossip, etc.  I work with some everyday.  And when I try and share Jesus with a non-christian they look at me and say "well, so and so claims to be a christian yet they gossip all the time and yada, yada, yada.  

Yeah it frustrates me, but the only thing I can do is make sure my own walk is correct and pray for the others around me.  At times when the Lord has opened the door I've corrected a couple.

One time one of the guys who was studying on the side to be a pastor was bad-mouthin' his wife on a fairly regular basis.  I prayed and asked God to either open the door for me to talk to him or send someone else who would.  A few days later the door opened for me and I stepped through it.   I've never heard him do it again.

While walking my dog the other night one of my neighbors stopped me to talk.  She's not christian and she brought up the subject of God.  She said, "I want to go to church but I smoke".  I said, "that's not my business".  God is the one who will change you, not me." 

She then asked if she could come to my church.  I said, Of course, would you like me to pick you up?"  She said "yes", then she said "are you sure you want me to come?  I'm a really bad person, won't people judge me?"  I said, "I am not judging you". 

She started to cry, she said, "Barbara, I've never met a christian like you before. Usually, they just start telling me how bad I am and I've gotta stop this, and I've gotta stop that. But you just love me.  I can see you are very different from the others." 

Needless to say, I'm picking her up for church on Sunday.  And as I walked away I too started to cry.  How faithful God is, even though we are unfaithful.

I can't change anybody but myself.  I can pray for the others and when in position to do so, correct them.  This will work no matter what they believe.

I don't believe our efforts are nullified.  God's Word will not return void.  Period.  No matter what it looks or sounds like.  God is faithful and will see to completion what He has started. 

 

[Psalmist_Warrior]

Originally posted by Quaffer God is faithful and will see to completion what He has started.  [/B]

In my opinion based on scriptural precedent, this is really the bottom line with regards to false teachers and "self-anointed", "self-appointed" pastors.  One of the things I really enjoy about CF (even though I'm a newbie) is that there is real passion here with solid commitment to baseline or core values and doctrine.  Quaffer hold great reserves of wisdom for us younger believers and we would do well to garner from his years and experiences. 

Gerry's passion is commendable because a heart for the Word will produce life and godliness.  I sometimes get frustrated even angry at those representing or should I say misrepresenting the Savior.  There is an overwhelming theme throughout scripture that usually helps me yield to the sovereignty of the Father.  If God can use a donkey(Balaam)/adulterer(David, Abraham)/murderer(David, Moses)/thief (Judas) to accomplish His ultimate design, then my part is to simply partner with Him and gaurd my own heart.  With regards to the original question, "authority" to preach may come from man but the POWER to preach and see God move, comes only from God.  In our free society those who wish may actually ordain themselves in the case of independent settings or meet all the requirements in the case of denominational settings.  But the power of the Word spoken through one who intimately serves WITH Jesus will always be revealed by the FRUIT of the ministry. 

 

[Andrew]

"Quaffer hold great reserves of wisdom for us younger believers and we would do well to garner from his years and experiences."

I'd AMEN that any day, except that Quaffer is a lady, and a Godly one at that

 

[Psalmist_Warrior]

OOPS... hehehehe boy is my face red. :o I apologize Quaffer for the gender mixup.  I missed the "Barbara" reference altogether.  Have to read more closely. 

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Originally posted by Psalmist_Warrior
OOPS... hehehehe boy is my face red. :o I apologize Quaffer for the gender mixup.  I missed the "Barbara" reference altogether.  Have to read more closely. 

Ain't Andrew sweet! 

No offense taken Psalmist.  And I agree with you on your post.  Only God can really do the calling.  Then it does not matter how much or how little professional schooling one has. 

 

[ZiSunka]

Originally posted by Jenna
Pardon me for a second, but I didn't see your name in his post lambslove. You know what is going on between you and God, so if you know that you are on the right track, you should also feel perfectly content that it isn't a matter of Gerry "yelling" at you. What it does accomplish is that each person has to read the post and determine whether they are apart of the "us" that you speak of. Reflecting on one's life with Christ and it's fruitfulness is not a bad thing.

Jenna, I'm going to pardon you because you misunderstood. I never said he was yelling at me. I said that ranting here does nothing, that if he is that outraged about what is going on in Christian TV, he needs to do something constructive with that outrage, not just get huffy here at CF.