Ordained and Licensed?

[Epiphoskei]

This is a matter of the church stepping in on Christianity. It has no right to do so. 99% liberty isn't liberty. Can we conduct our services as we are compelled and believe as we are compelled? Yes? Good. Then we will preach as we are compelled as well.

The state doesn't have the right to tell a person to get a church's approval to preach. The only approval required is from God.

 

[DeaconDean]

I am not going to argue this any further with you.

My Caesar, North Carolina, says that one must be licensed to preach.

I must obey its laws just as I would God's. (cf. Rom 13:1-8)

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

The point is that God simply has not given the State any authority over the Church. None. This is not Caesar's business, it is God's and God's alone. You do not submit to the Government with regards church business under any circumstances. It's not caesar's due. It's God's alone.

The state can and will make any law it wants. And when it makes a sinful law, you break it.

I agree with you. I think of the churches in hiding in China. If I was a pastor in China I certainly would not hesitate to break their laws for churches having to be government approved. Bunyan wrote his famous book "Pilgrim's Progress" while in jail because we was not licensed. Also there is a rich American Baptist history of those that got arrested for not being approved by the "state". Most Baptist pastors now a days are push overs. I'm not saying pastors should spit in the face of government when there is no need. We though should listen to God before we listen to man.

 

[mlqurgw]

I agree with you. I think of the churches in hiding in China. If I was a pastor in China I certainly would not hesitate to break their laws for churches having to be government approved. Bunyan wrote his famous book "Pilgrim's Progress" while in jail because we was not licensed. Also there is a rich American Baptist history of those that got arrested for not being approved by the "state". Most Baptist pastors now a days are push overs. I'm not saying pastors should spit in the face of government when there is no need. We though should listen to God before we listen to man.

I agree with you in principle but not necessarrily in application. The 2 examples cited are vastly different than the reality of the requirement in NC. Bunyan was imprisoned for preaching the Gospel because the requirement was that the Gospel ( that is the true Gospel) not be preached. The government mandated what could be preached and by whom it could be preached. In China, as in Mexico and other countries, the mandate is to control what is preached and by whom. That simply isn't the case in NC. Though you may see a slippery slope it doesn't exist as yet. When the requirements of the civil authority doesn't cause any real harm, as is the case in NC, it is up to the conscience to comply or not. We may do more harm by judging others by our conscience than the civil authority does.

 

[Epiphoskei]

My Caesar, North Carolina, says that one must be licensed to preach.

I must obey its laws just as I would God's. (cf. Rom 13:1-8)

Your Caesar and your God are in conflict.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I agree with you in principle but not necessarrily in application. The 2 examples cited are vastly different than the reality of the requirement in NC. Bunyan was imprisoned for preaching the Gospel because the requirement was that the Gospel ( that is the true Gospel) not be preached. The government mandated what could be preached and by whom it could be preached. In China, as in Mexico and other countries, the mandate is to control what is preached and by whom. That simply isn't the case in NC. Though you may see a slippery slope it doesn't exist as yet. When the requirements of the civil authority doesn't cause any real harm, as is the case in NC, it is up to the conscience to comply or not. We may do more harm by judging others by our conscience than the civil authority does.

I agree that this could be a different case. I wanted my point to be made though that it certainly can be required of us to disobey the government. I don't know the details of the North Carolina license requirement. If it would stop someone from being a pastor who God is calling a pastor I say by all means break that man made rule.

 

[fireman1173005]

To ordain means to set aside. Usually it is just pastors and deacons who are ordained although in many Baptist churches I see more other positions such as youth pastors, etc. being ordained. To legally marry someone you must be a licensed minister, which means your church votes to license you and the powers that be in the church sign the license and you have it put on file at your county courthouse and they give you a book and page # where it can be found. You use this book and page # to put on marriage licenses. When ordained the church also usually votes to ordain you, but usually you go before a ordination committee and they question your biblical knowledge, etc. and make sure you are ready. Then they will hold a ordination service and you will usually give a short message and then others from your past will share about you, maybe former pastors, deacons, family members, whoever. They will usually give a an ordination certificate to remember the event by. I usually tell people that licenseing is mans doing (law). And ordination is God's doing (church).

Hope that helps!

 

[PrincetonGuy]

To ordain means to set aside. Usually it is just pastors and deacons who are ordained although in many Baptist churches I see more other positions such as youth pastors, etc. being ordained. To legally marry someone you must be a licensed minister, which means your church votes to license you and the powers that be in the church sign the license and you have it put on file at your county courthouse and they give you a book and page # where it can be found. You use this book and page # to put on marriage licenses. When ordained the church also usually votes to ordain you, but usually you go before a ordination committee and they question your biblical knowledge, etc. and make sure you are ready. Then they will hold a ordination service and you will usually give a short message and then others from your past will share about you, maybe former pastors, deacons, family members, whoever. They will usually give a an ordination certificate to remember the event by. I usually tell people that licenseing is mans doing (law). And ordination is God's doing (church).

Hope that helps!

Thank you for this excellent post with which I agree.

Very many Baptist laymen are licensed by their state to perform functions such as weddings and funerals and to preach. To pastor a church, however, most Baptist churches require that the applicant be ordained as outlined in fireman’s post quoted above, and the requirements for ordination are typically much more strict and demanding than the requirements for a license. Some Baptist groups require a minimum of a relevant master’s degree for ordination; others will ordain a high school drop-out who loves Jesus.

I was ordained some years ago and subsequently served as the senior pastor of a church. I do not believe in ordaining deacons or elders because it is important to maintain the position of ordained clergy and to distinguish between the clergy and the laity. That is to say that the call to the pastorate is a high and noble calling by God and the calling needs to be appropriately respected. I do believe, however, that the senior pastor’s associate and assistant pastors need be ordained. Youth pastors typically are not ordained clergy, but I believe that they should.