Opinions please

[airest]

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[madison1101]

Your situation is a difficult one, and one that I have seen many people go through. I am a therapist, and have worked in rehabs and now in a psychiatric hospital. It is painful to watch what the drugs and alcohol do to families and marriages time and time again.

My encouragement to you is to stay separated until your husband has shown he is willing to work on his recovery. I know that it takes time, lots and lots of time for an addict/alcoholic to recover. If he is working a program, like Celebrate Recovery or AA or NA, then he stands a better chance of recovering and experiencing victory over the chemicals. I also think he should be in therapy to find out what makes him tick.

If you are interested in salvaging your marriage, you might consider marital therapy for the two of you. Stay separated, but go to therapy together. Marital therapy can help you discuss your concerns with him in a safe setting.

I would not file for divorce. He should be paying child support for the children during your separation.

God bless.

Trish

 

[Autumnleaf]

How does getting a separation help the situation? If you as his wife are not there to support him I would think it would make things harder on him to kick the drug habit.

 

[bliz]

Stay seperated. He is not getting any help with his problelm, and so I would not be inclined to trust anythng he says and I would no longer give him any money.

Talk is cheap - you need to see actions, over an extended period of time.

 

[InTheFlame]

Do you have an Al-Anon or similar group in your area?

http://www.al-anon.alateen.org/

 

[Autumnleaf]

Stay seperated. He is not getting any help with his problelm, and so I would not be inclined to trust anythng he says and I would no longer give him any money.

Talk is cheap - you need to see actions, over an extended period of time.

Maybe she needs to show him some love.

 

[bliz]

And what do you think loving an addict looks like?

Nothing in his life is going to go well so long as he is using. Nothing he says can be believed. That does not mean he never tells the truth, but she cannot tell when. Until he is clean, she cannot give him money because it is going one place. She cannot make him quit, she cannot subject her children to a druggie. HOw do you suggest she show love to him?

 

[madison1101]

How does getting a separation help the situation? If you as his wife are not there to support him I would think it would make things harder on him to kick the drug habit.

She is not responsibile for making it easier for him to recover. She is not responsible for his recovery at all. He is. Until he decides to get clean and stay clean, and works a recovery program, he will continue to relapse. None of that will be her fault.

She has to think of her children and protect them and herself, financially and emotionally. Separation, and marital therapy is a good solution for all involved. She can protect the kids and herself, while they meet with a third party to discuss their marriage.

 

[madison1101]

Maybe she needs to show him some love.

When my son was using heroin, I kicked him out of my house. That was the most loving thing I could do for him. I also took his car away from him. As a result of not having a car, he went to a rehab.

Loving an addict looks different than loving a non-addict. Love must be tough. Boundaries must be set and held onto. Separating is protecting those boundaries and not letting the addict use the relative.

 

[Autumnleaf]

When my son was using heroin, I kicked him out of my house. That was the most loving thing I could do for him. I also took his car away from him. As a result of not having a car, he went to a rehab.

Loving an addict looks different than loving a non-addict. Love must be tough. Boundaries must be set and held onto. Separating is protecting those boundaries and not letting the addict use the relative.

I'm not saying she should give him money and the keys to the family car but I do think she should at least be there with him showing support. To just go away and tell him he's on his own when he has a terrible addiction to kick seems harsh to me.

 

[bliz]

What is there to support? He is not working, he is not getting any treatment for his addiction or getting any counseling or attending any group sessions. She cannot do this for him. She can cheer him one once he starts doing something, but he's not doing anything to make the needed change.

 

[Autumnleaf]

What is there to support? He is not working, he is not getting any treatment for his addiction or getting any counseling or attending any group sessions. She cannot do this for him. She can cheer him one once he starts doing something, but he's not doing anything to make the needed change.

I look at it like visiting a relative in the hospital. They may or may not get better. Sneaking them contraband food is a bad idea. There's not much you can do to help them except for just being there for moral support and good company.

 

[madison1101]

I look at it like visiting a relative in the hospital. They may or may not get better. Sneaking them contraband food is a bad idea. There's not much you can do to help them except for just being there for moral support and good company.

Being there for him may be enabling him. As long as he thinks she will be there for him, no matter what he does, then he will not have the motivation to stop using the drugs, clean up his act, and take responsibility for himself and his family.

In recovery we call it hitting bottom. In order for him to do that, she has to get out of his way, and take care of herself. Support, for an addict, means, not enabling. Moral support is not her responsbility.

If he needs moral support, he can find it in a recovery group like NA, or AA, or Celebrate Recovery. He can find it in therapy or counseling. He can find it in a lot of places. Same for good company. People in AA and NA are more than willing to get together for coffee after a meeting and encourage each other. They also exchange phone numbers and are willing to talk on the phone any time of the day or night.

He needs a recovery program and she is not the answer. He has to take responsibility for his recovery and work a program.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Being there for him may be enabling him. As long as he thinks she will be there for him, no matter what he does, then he will not have the motivation to stop using the drugs, clean up his act, and take responsibility for himself and his family.

In recovery we call it hitting bottom. In order for him to do that, she has to get out of his way, and take care of herself. Support, for an addict, means, not enabling. Moral support is not her responsbility.

If he needs moral support, he can find it in a recovery group like NA, or AA, or Celebrate Recovery. He can find it in therapy or counseling. He can find it in a lot of places. Same for good company. People in AA and NA are more than willing to get together for coffee after a meeting and encourage each other. They also exchange phone numbers and are willing to talk on the phone any time of the day or night.

He needs a recovery program and she is not the answer. He has to take responsibility for his recovery and work a program.

More people successfully quit all kinds of drugs cold turkey than with any program, such as AA. Putting it down and walking away from it forever is all it takes. Hanging around with fellow addicts never did seem like a good idea to me. If his wife is there with him he will eventually either die from it or give it up. When I think of what Jesus would do, the thought of him walking away never crosses my mind.

 

[InTheFlame]

More people successfully quit all kinds of drugs cold turkey than with any program, such as AA.

Wow - have you got statistics for that? Including whether they were hospitalised with the withdrawal symptoms (which can get very nasty - often requires 24hr medical care for a long-term addict)?

Putting it down and walking away from it forever is all it takes.

No, it's not. Dealing with the reasons that the person was depending on the drug instead of coping with life drug-free is an important step.

Hanging around with fellow addicts never did seem like a good idea to me.

Would you say the same about church? "Hanging around with fellow sinners never did seem like a good idea to me"?

If his wife is there with him he will eventually either die from it or give it up. When I think of what Jesus would do, the thought of him walking away never crosses my mind.

The idea of God separating himself from a person indulging in a sinful life is all through the bible... starting with Genesis. I don't think anyone's saying that this woman should turn her back on her husband and refuse to ever see him again.

But you SEEM to be arguing from a position of considerable naivete - do you know many drug addicts? Do you know the sort of behaviour that drug addiction drives many addicts to? I've listened to many an addict (in rehab) talking about the numerous horrible things they did to their wife/girlfriend, and how they don't blame them a bit for leaving them, but they just wish they could make it up to them. A drug addict in the grip of addiction is NOT good to be around - for adults or children.

 

[madison1101]

More people successfully quit all kinds of drugs cold turkey than with any program, such as AA. Putting it down and walking away from it forever is all it takes. Hanging around with fellow addicts never did seem like a good idea to me. If his wife is there with him he will eventually either die from it or give it up. When I think of what Jesus would do, the thought of him walking away never crosses my mind.

I beg to differ with you. I am a psychotherapist and have done extensive research, in graduate school, on recovery from addictions, and the studies that have been done on addicts and recovery options shows that group support is much more beneficial than going it alone.

Groups like AA, or Celebrate Recovery, coupled with individual psychotherapy, have been proven most beneficial in helping an addict/alcoholic achieve long term sobriety.

What statistics are you quoting, because I would like to read the studies that have been done to support your thesis?

I work in a rehab and a psychiatric hospital. I have been in recovery from alcoholism for 16 years. I also hold a Masters in Social Work, with an emphasis on clinical mental health, and I have a license to practice social work in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Do you have any credentials to back up your information?

 

[madison1101]

More people successfully quit all kinds of drugs cold turkey than with any program, such as AA. Putting it down and walking away from it forever is all it takes. Hanging around with fellow addicts never did seem like a good idea to me. If his wife is there with him he will eventually either die from it or give it up. When I think of what Jesus would do, the thought of him walking away never crosses my mind.

By the way, if a person is detoxing from alcohol and suffers the DTs bad enough, they could die from the withdrawal without medical supervision.

Most people who detox from heroin need medical supervision.

I have watched people detox in the hospital and it is not pretty. No wife should have to go through that.

Nor should any wife have to risk her home, her finances, her physical safety and the safety of her children living with a person who is actively using, hanging around all sorts of drug dealers, giving their phone number to dealers and users, having all sorts of people in and out of the house at all hours of the day and night, having a person passed out from drugs or alcohol, making excuses to the kids and the employers.

I work in the reality of it. I lived in the reality of it.

Jesus isn't married to the addict. A human being is.

Again, I would love to know your personal experience with addicts, and your credential for making statements like you did.

 

[Autumnleaf]

By the way, if a person is detoxing from alcohol and suffers the DTs bad enough, they could die from the withdrawal without medical supervision.

Most people who detox from heroin need medical supervision.

I have watched people detox in the hospital and it is not pretty. No wife should have to go through that.

Nor should any wife have to risk her home, her finances, her physical safety and the safety of her children living with a person who is actively using, hanging around all sorts of drug dealers, giving their phone number to dealers and users, having all sorts of people in and out of the house at all hours of the day and night, having a person passed out from drugs or alcohol, making excuses to the kids and the employers.

I work in the reality of it. I lived in the reality of it.

Jesus isn't married to the addict. A human being is.

Again, I would love to know your personal experience with addicts, and your credential for making statements like you did.

I suppose you'd rather the fellow DT on the streets in a dirty alley rather than at home where his wife can call for help. I'm in the medical field. The professor who taught us about addictions mentioned the most successful way to kick a habit is to simply walk away from it. He also mentioned this fact tends to miff the AA people...

About half of my family are addicts, most are functional. My mother works with indigent addicts although she used to work with higher functioning ones at Betty Ford.

 

[madison1101]

I suppose you'd rather the fellow DT on the streets in a dirty alley rather than at home where his wife can call for help. I'm in the medical field. The professor who taught us about addictions mentioned the most successful way to kick a habit is to simply walk away from it. He also mentioned this fact tends to miff the AA people...

About half of my family are addicts, most are functional. My mother works with indigent addicts although she used to work with higher functioning ones at Betty Ford.

The person with the DTs needs a detox and rehab. Not a wife.

Did your professor say that social support was unnecessary? Did he/she say that psychotherapy was unnecessary?

I read numerous research studies that supported the thesis that social support and psychotherapy combined make long term recovery more likely. SHOW ME YOUR RESEARCH!!! Quoting your professor is not sufficient, as what is the basis of his statement.

 

[InTheFlame]

I suppose you'd rather the fellow DT on the streets in a dirty alley rather than at home where his wife can call for help.

I'd rather the fellow detox (over here, btw, DT usually refers to delerium tremens, not detox) in a dedicated detox unit, with 24hr surveilance and medical care! Failing that, in a hospital.

Of course, that's assuming he WANTS to detox. Presumably you're not implying that the wife should lock him forcibly in a room and MAKE him detox!

What branch of medicine are you in, AL? I never saw you mention that before!