[OPEN]Thread for Fish

[karen freeinchristman]

(Not necessarily the views of the OP )

I have drafted a proposal for a progressive Anglican sub-forum, which would be open to non-trinitarians as well as trinitarians, the details of which are posted in the "suggest a new forum" forum, linked to below:

http://www.christianforums.com/t4802423-progressive-anglican-proposal.html

 

[Fish and Bread]

Thanks Karen! It was very kind of you to post this here for me. I appreciate it.

 

[IowaLutheran]

Good to see you again, Fish. Hope things are going well for you.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Good to see you again, Fish. Hope things are going well for you.

Thank you.

 

[TomUK]

Hey Fish!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fish and Bread]

Hey Fish!!!!!!!!!!

Greetings!

 

[No Swansong]

Fish did you get my PM concerning this?

Unfortunately I have been told by higher staff that OPEN subforums are not allowed in the CO section. I told you in the PM I sent you that I would be sending PM's to Admin. to see if there is a possiblity of this being changed.
I would recommend that others who agree with this idea do the same.
Now I need to check with Admin to see if they got my PM's. There was a database problem that affected PM's for a while last week and I don't know if these were sent during that time.

Anyway I hope this can happen for you.

 

[Fish and Bread]

Fish did you get my PM concerning this?

Unfortunately I have been told by higher staff that OPEN subforums are not allowed in the CO section. I told you in the PM I sent you that I would be sending PM's to Admin. to see if there is a possiblity of this being changed.
I would recommend that others who agree with this idea do the same.
Now I need to check with Admin to see if they got my PM's. There was a database problem that affected PM's for a while last week and I don't know if these were sent during that time.

Anyway I hope this can happen for you.

Thank you for your support and your assistance. Please keep us apprised on your progress if possible.

I don't recall having received the PM you referenced above, so I assume it was a victim of the database situation. In any event, I would be happy to add a PM to your's, but I am not sure who I should contact. Is "Admin" a particular person named "Admin", a person going by a different screen name, or an entire group of people?

 

[No Swansong]

F&B I will PM you in the AM

I think Tom is also PMing you with an idea as well.

We'll keep trying for you partner.

 

[Naomi4Christ]

WHat are non-Trinitarian Anglicans?

 

[Iosias]

WHat are non-Trinitarian Anglicans?

Unitarians who like rituals

 

[Fish and Bread]

WHat are non-Trinitarian Anglicans?

Anglicans who don't believe in the doctrine of the trinity literally and percisely as stated in the Nicene Creed. With that said, my original proposal misspoke a little in using non-trinitarian rather than non-nicene. Non-Nicene would probably be more inclusive, encompassing also anyone who can't affirm the creed for other reasons, such as disagreeing with baptism for the forgiveness of sins (some evangelicals) or a literal virgin birth (Bishop Pike in the 1960s and a fair number of liberals today). I may revise the proposal to reflect that.

For those who didn't click over and read the whole proposal, I want to emphasize that this sub-forum would be for *all* liberal and moderate Anglicans, obviously including many who affirm the Nicene Creed completely. It'd just also be open to those who don't.

 

[scraparcs]

Do all Anglican churches recite the Nicene Creed in each service? (I forget.)

 

[Iosias]

Do all Anglican churches recite the Nicene Creed in each service? (I forget.)

It depends which service. Some times it is the Apostles' Creed or every now and again the Athanasian Creed.

 

[gtsecc]

non-Trinitarians?
They are not Christian.
This is so intellectually dishonest, I can't believe we are even talking about it.
What about pagan Christians?
What about Atheist Christians?
This is ridiculous!

 

[Fish and Bread]

Do all Anglican churches recite the Nicene Creed in each service? (I forget.)

Some of the more liberal parishes skip the creed or substitute a modern progressive creed in it's place. Others make clear that it is not something all who recite it are personally affirming, but rather a general statement of what the church as a group has historically believed at times ("we believe"). I've heard of it being deliberately being sent to song for the express purpose of making it clear it's more of a hymn than an affirmation in some instances, also. There are also instances of progressive parishes changing "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" in the liturgy to "Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer" to avoid trinitarian and patriarchial implications.

It should be made clear, though, that this proposed forum is not just for non-Nicenes. It is for all Anglican liberals and moderates (and other groups specified in the proposal, should it be approved in that exact format).

 

[gtsecc]

This is insanity.

 

[Fish and Bread]

This is insanity.

non-Trinitarians?
They are not Christian.
This is so intellectually dishonest, I can't believe we are even talking about it.
What about pagan Christians?
What about Atheist Christians?
This is ridiculous!

Posts like this are exactly what underlines the need for a progressive sub-forums. How do you think it would make a lot of faithful progressives feel to hear you describe cherished beliefs in those terms? What about when similar things are said about women or homosexuals in the priesthood when actual women and/or homosexual priests look at them? We can't even have a discussion relating to any of those matters without having a debate on whether women or homosexual priests are sinful on this forum, and without offensive language being thrown about. That is part of the reason why there is a real need for a sub-forum -- so progressives can discuss their faith and their faith lives without having to defend themselves against attacks everytime they happen to state one. Sometimes it's nice to have a safe environment in which to share. Conservatives seem to feel the same way, which is why so many are pushing for a conservative sub-forum, something I also support.

 

[higgs2]

Some of the more liberal parishes skip the creed or substitute a modern progressive creed in it's place. Others make clear that it is not something all who recite it are personally affirming, but rather a general statement of what the church as a group has historically believed at times ("we believe"). I've heard of it being deliberately being sent to song for the express purpose of making it clear it's more of a hymn than an affirmation in some instances, also. There are also instances of progressive parishes changing "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit" in the liturgy to "Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer" to avoid trinitarian and patriarchial implications.

It should be made clear, though, that this proposed forum is not just for non-Nicenes. It is for all Anglican liberals and moderates (and other groups specified in the proposal, should it be approved in that exact format).

Liberals and moderates do not need this subforum, we have STR I do sympathize with your desire to participate, john, but the non-nicene thing is just not allowed on congregational forums. Even on wwcm or whatever the liberal forum is called, I don't believe they allow non-nicenes to debate. There would have to be a fundamental shift in the way CF does things to change that.

I could be wrong, but everything I have seen up to now tells me that the nicene creed is the standard for posting in the Christians Only section of CF.

 

[Iosias]

non-Trinitarians?
They are not Christian.
This is so intellectually dishonest, I can't believe we are even talking about it.
What about pagan Christians?
What about Atheist Christians?
This is ridiculous!

On this I must agree with gtsecc. Denial of the Trinity has been condemned by the Church and note the capital "C".

I would support a progressive subforum but allowing Arians to post would really be going too far.