open theism

[JM]

I keep running into open theism all over the net, is this theology on the raise? How popular is it and where did it come from?

 

[frumanchu]

It's been gaining popularity in recent years, largely IMO as a result of a similar expansion in Reformed circles. It's often presented as a "thinking-man's Arminianism"...not to imply at all that our Arminian bretheren are brainless or thoughtless, but rather it is a "more philosophical" attempt to reconcile "free will" Arminianism with some of the logical and philosophical issues raised by the Reformed.

There are essentially two paths that converge in Open Theism. One (what I'll call proactive Open Theism) is the extreme libertine notion of free will that says absolute foreknowledge somehow necessitates outcomes and therefore is irreconcilable with free will. The other (what I call reactive Open Theism) is the notion that because the Reformed understandings of God's sovereignty do logically flow from the premise of God's absolute foreknowledge, the expedient means of countering that argument is simply to reject that premise in favor of one which does not produce that understanding.

Open Theism is a relatively new theological view, although some of its roots go back through many early errors dealt with by the early church.

 

[JM]

There are essentially two paths that converge in Open Theism. One (what I'll call proactive Open Theism) is the extreme libertine notion of free will that says absolute foreknowledge somehow necessitates outcomes and therefore is irreconcilable with free will. The other (what I call reactive Open Theism) is the notion that because the Reformed understandings of God's sovereignty do logically flow from the premise of God's absolute foreknowledge, the expedient means of countering that argument is simply to reject that premise in favor of one which does not produce that understanding.

Yup. That sounds about right. When I post in forums and they find out I'm a calvinist I'm hounded by the open theists and their atheist friends.

What are a few simple arguments against open theism? We know it's not Biblical or historical, is there a philosophical angel to consider?

Peace and thanks.

jm

 

[frumanchu]

Well, the primary error in proactive Open Theism is a misunderstanding of the epistemological nature of foreknowledge. The necessity of something occuring because of the foreknowledge of it's occurance is not an issue of causality but rather one of epistemology. God's foreknowledge of an event does not in and of itself cause that event any more than my observation of a bird flying past my window in and of itself caused the bird to fly past the window. Assuming my knowledge of its flight was certain, it could not have not happened...otherwise my knowledge could not have been certain in the first place

 

[McWilliams]

The Gospel According to Jesus Christ by John MacArthur was written to refute open theism and to set the gospel straight in all of its truth and fullness and is really good! He traces this 'new gospel' to works of Lewis Sperry Chafer and also Charles Ryrie and quotes from both of them, declaring their tragic errors! Forwards by J.M. Boice and J.I. Packer are included and are most supportive of Lordship, the opposite and biblical view!
In the introduction he states:
" This new godpel has spawned a generation of professing Christians whose behavior often is indistinguishable from the rebellion of the unregenerate. Recemt statistics reveal that 1.6 billion people worldwide are considered Christians. A well-publicized opinion poll indicated nearly a third of all Americans claim to be born again. Those figures surely represent millions who are tragically deceived. Theirs is a damning false assurance."
One would do well to read this book as it is most compelling! Extensive quotes and scripture references make a a very valid clarification of basic fundamental truths!
Now that I've pulled if from the shelf I too need to read it once more!
(amazon has good used copies for $6.00)

 

[McWilliams]

These thoughts are from CARM:
Open theism, also known as free will theism and openness, is the teaching that God does not know all things. That is, He does not know the free will choices that people will make in the future because God either chooses not to know or because the future isn't knowable.
Is this biblical? What are the ramifications of such a teaching? Is this a dangerous movement? Does it exalt God? Read and find out why open theism is in error and is potentially very dangerous.
Introduction

What is open theism?

What are the basic tenets of open theism

Things you might hear the God of open theism say

Verses listed by topic

 

[McWilliams]

Hmmm! Seems I'm up writing too early, before the fog has lifted. My above quote, the first one pertains to 'Lordship', as does MacArthurs book! Second post with quotes from CARM apply to 'open theism'!
If you'll pardon please! I'm now waking up, seeing the errors! Both are deflintely issues needing more thought and clarification!

 

[cygnusx1]

the philosophy is founded on a "risk taking God" ........ god -the gambler , in opposition To God Reigns.

There are several well written books by Calvinists exposing this error as the drivel it is.

I had to laugh half way through Fru's first post ...."not to imply at all that our Arminian bretheren are brainless or thoughtless " , I could just imagine Fru smiling typing that out

 

[JM]

Frame wrote a book defending the Reformed position, it's just under 1000 pages, it refutes open theism...I haven't picked it up yet.

 

[McWilliams]

Interesting site, covers many topics.
Loved reading his movie reviews/analysis

http://www.frame-poythress.org/

 

[cygnusx1]

try these two books ....... I like them

 

[JJB]

JM,

I am in an on-going conversation through the CARM chatroom with an ot-er. I found some good articles on monergism.com by Piper. Also several articles that deal with specific verses ot folks focus on, particularly those that deal with God "changing His mind". Gregory (?) Boyd is a popular author among ot ppl.

This friend's contention is that we cause suffering for one another, we cause suffering for ourselves, but God cannot intervene since He's God.

I immediately thought of Paul's thorn in his side...he came back with, God couldn't remove it because it would result in puffing up Paul's pride. I emphasize the word couldn't -- he used it as if God is limited.

I also asked him what he did about the book of Job.

 

[zapp]

Did I understand correctly [when I joined] that this topic was "taboo" on this forum, and that we who seek to understand whether or not our view of scripture fits somehow into Open Theism are not welcome on this forum? Similarly, are we who do not fit neatly into Arminian or Calvinist camps are not welcome on this forum?

 

[damoncrowe]

There is a pretty good book on open theism called, Bound Only Once. . . " Although I don't agree doctrinally with all of the contributors, it is a good treatment on the heresy. I have debated with some open theist over the course of five or six years I guess. It is a logical conclusion for the modern day evangelical church. They are extremely opposed to Calvinism and rightly so. The biblical doctrines of the immutability of God, sovereignity of God, and the depravity of man shatter the whole heresy. In a very lengthy debate, I posed the question, "Where does faith come from?" I think this question strikes at the very heart of not only open theism, but also any belief system that thinks man has some inherent goodness buried deep within. The options are either that God gives faith and we are then saved or that man conjures up his own faith and then God owes him salvation. It is making a work out of faith. It would seem at first to a Calvinist that they would see the error in that, but . . . then we are reassured of the blindness of man. In short. . . Openness guys believe that God cannot know future events, that original sin (as the Westminster divines understand it) does not exist, and that God sits back and watches His creation. Back to Deism.
damon

 

[damoncrowe]

I also read part of one of Greg Boyd's books while debating with OTs. I was thoroughly disgusted with his itty bitty god. OT's god is subject to man. How blessed we are to have a just, holy, merciful, saving God who saves wicked sinners like me! Praise God from whom all blessings flow!
damon

 

[seekingpurity047]

try these two books ....... I like them

Thanks cyg, I may even consider this.

Hey, on this note, my church is having this theological series over the next four weeks about pentacostalism/charismatics, and the name of the conference is "Charis-mania". We have three speakers, two of the pastors and one MD from our church who wrote several books (Dr. Brad Burke, I'm not sure of the titles of his books, but I will get back at you for that one).

If anyone is in the Windsor Ontario area (i doubt it... but it's a try), come check it out. Campbell Baptist Church at the corner of Wyandotte st. and Josephine.

To the glory of God,

Randy

 

[erin74]

Sounds great - not sure I'm in that area... but sounds great.