[Open] Support thread for non-punitive households (Please NO DEBATE)

While I do use punitive action, I also try to give my kids lots of choices, and allow them to "back out" of their poor choices before negative consequences ensue. Also, with tantrums, we try to work through the emotions, but if they can't do this, our kids go to their rooms (because no one wants to hear their fit) until they can come talk to me about it. Usually, this takes any drama out of it, and we can talk about the issue (like I tried to before/when the fit started) and come to an agreement.

I'm learning a lot from this thread. I like giving my kids choices, and using real-life consequences when possible.

Rachel

What do you do in a store when he refuses to come out to the check line? I told him that I need to go and he need to come or I will pick him up and go. He refused to come so I ended up picking him up and putting in the cart and ... he screamed like craizy. It's hard and I understand why my husband don't want to go shopping with him, but I needed to do it today.

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One thing to remember (by the way, you did GREAT!!) is that we cannot fear our children's anger. They are allowed to get angry, but that doesn't change the way things will be. You gave him a choice, he made you carry him, he had the right to be angry (it is an emotion) and you had the right to stand firm.

Children WILL get angry, children WILL show their anger, our job is to teach them the proper way.


My 1 year old (OK so maybe not fully understand but) understands the phrase, "That is NOT acceptable". I start off every correcting encounter with that phrase, either "Screaming is NOT acceptable", or "Hitting is NOT acceptable". I then follow up with what IS acceptable...

Screaming is NOT acceptable. But, you may tell mommy that you are mad. You may make a mad face. You may pout even if you want to.

That sort of thing. Also, remember that GBD doesn't mean that our children never FEEL punished. We cannot control how they FEEL about a consequence. It means that we allow them to see that their actions have REAL consequences, not just punishments that we throw out at random.



Time-outs are not just bad because they are punitive, but because they are a random time set for the child. For instance, my 3 year old may only take 1 minute to cool off, yet the traditional time-out for a 3 year old is 3 minutes. After 1 minute, when she has cooled off, it then becomes of no value to keep her in a time out. Yet, traditional time-outs would have her sitting there for another 2 minutes. That is what is so punitive about it. Think about this. My 5 year old may take up to 10 minutes to calm down, yet he would be released from time out at 5 minutes. Also, it doesn't take into account individual children's personalities. While my daughter gets over her tantrums quicker by being in a room with others, my son needs alone time in a quiet room, preferably dimmed lights, to calm down. So, those are many reasons that traditional time-outs are considered punitive. Random time allotment, random method, no attachment to the actual issue. (instead of losing a toy for throwing it, oh you must sit in the corner, so it doesn't add up as a logical consequence).

Great thread. I am extremely interested in grace based discipline. DH and I have talked about it at long lengths and this definitely will suite our style of parenting (or at least we believe that it will- if the time ever comes )

One thing I sometimes struggle with is when the natural consequences are the kind of thing 3 year olds really don't care about, usually because the thinking is too long term and they can't get their heads around time like that. For example, wanting candy. I don't want them to have it because it is unhealthy, rots their teeth and spoils their appetite. But to a three year old teeth are irrelevant and he would love to fill himself up with junk instead of vegetables! (I'm not an anti-candy fascist, I just think there's a time and place. )

There are other (better) examples too, but I can't think of one now (typical!). So does anyone have any suggestions / ideas for those situations where the natural consequences are irrelevant to the kids, but as a loving parent you do care?

PS Any news on this thread going sticky? How do we make that happen? Does anyone agree with me that it would be a good idea?

Just say no and don't give them candy....

Yeah - that's pretty much what i do... Which is occasionally followed by serious moodiness... of which the natural consequence is...

Who is moody? The child? Disappointments are inevitable.... if I don't give David something he wants and he's sad, well I just say something like "you're mad because I won;t give you candy, but dinner is coming soon and I need you to eat dinner..." he'll still be upset, but I can't make him not be upset.... he still doesn't get candy....

Leanna, that sounds exactly like our household!

As I said, it wasn't my best example of the problem.

The usual rule for a *sticky* thread is to ask the mods to help you make it a sticky. What I'll do is post your request, it will be reviewed, and if we decide to *sticky* it, it will be done.

That sound good?

Rachel

Leanna said:

Who is moody? The child? Disappointments are inevitable.... if I don't give David something he wants and he's sad, well I just say something like "you're mad because I won;t give you candy, but dinner is coming soon and I need you to eat dinner..." he'll still be upset, but I can't make him not be upset.... he still doesn't get candy....

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Yeah- that's an important point. There has to be an acceptance of all emotions. It's okay for kids to be disappointed or sad. We can empathize, and allow them their feelings- guiding them through identifying the feeling and expressing it appropriately. It is much better to learn over little things (though at the time they seem like the whole world) as a child to deal with disappointment, than to have to learn how to deal with big things as an adult.

For a couple of my kids granting their desire in fantasy works well. " I wish we could eat candy all the time!! I wish we could have candy moring noon and night! We'd be great big roly polys with all our teeth rotted out! If it wasn't so bad for you- I would give you candy all the time!! What's your favorite kind of candy? Oh- yes we'd eat big salads of Swedish Fish!! with Kool-Aid dressing ! Maybe next time mommy goes to the store, we could pick out a candy treat to have after dinner that day!"

Leave of the last part if they are under three- because they think anything you say is going to happen right now.

I would also add - I have had to struggle very hard not to parent for 20 years from now. That has to be up to God- I need to try to teach my kids now the tools they will need to make good choices and to give love and be loved in a healthy way.

If there are not more immediate consequences, then probably I am looking too far ahead. The problem I need to deal with is probably smaller in scope than I originally made it.

Here's a book you might really enjoy! He was at a mom's conference I went to recently, and talked about "coaching" your kids. Here's the book he spoke on (at the workshop I went to):Respectful Kids You can find it here.

Rachel

Making this a *Sticky* thread, as requested!
Rachel

I want to share some positive things we've been experiencing over at my house, because sometimes we only talk about the challenges ... and its so good when you can see your hard work coming into flower.... so let me tell you about some things that happened today. I hope that some of these examples help you see how this works, because our relationship is close enough that its not adversarial and when we encounter a snafoo we try to deal with it differently than an adversarial household would, I can only imagine he would have gotten yelled at in the book-hitting situation. So I hope you are blessed by this!

First, David is a great sibling, he amazes me with how not-jealous he is. Today he gave Maya his little truck and said "share with Maya!" ... shes too little for a truck, but it sat there on her chest for a while... lol... Later he did it again... he has a little notebook with a pencil, and he gave it to her to "share." I love that he is doing this on his own and that he's getting it. When he "shares" I encourage him, I told him "she's too little for that toy, but its so nice that you are sharing... its nice to share!" IE use positive reinforcement when you can...

He asked to hold her again, and he sat there with her on his lap with the biggest proudest smile you've ever seen. Shortly after he held her, I had her on my lap and he was helping me put away his books on his book case and he out of the blue takes a book and wacks her on the head. Now because I have a close relationship with David I could see he didn't do this in malice, he had the "playful" look on his face, he wanted to play with her.... Maya starts screaming because it hurt her, and I held her up the way she likes and patted her on the back and said "awww, you hurt her David.... you didn't mean to hurt her did you?" And David had this horrified/ashamed look on his face... and I said "Maya, David didn't mean to hurt you... he's sorry.... sorry Maya!" and David pipes up with "sorry Maya!" I didn't even have to make him... and I wouldn't have, for the record, because I think that people should say sorry if they are sorry and not because a parent is forcing them to...

A week ago DH took David out on a daddy-son date. He bought him a truck on this date. The next day we were talking about his truck, DH at work, and I said "boy that was sure nice of daddy.... you should tell him thank you when he gets home! it was nice for him to buy you a truck wasn't it?" .... tonight when DH came home, and went to tuck David in (who was in bed but not asleep yet, and the truck was right next to the bed) and David points at the truck and says, out of the blue, "Daddy got truck!!.... tank you!" he remembered from that conversation a week ago and put it into practice all on his own .... now doesn't that mean so much more than if I had lined him up when DH got home and said "tell daddy thank you for the truck or you won't get ____" Yes it does!

This all happened today....

Now this is not to say I am the perfect parent or that David is the perfect kid. We've had our stages where I wanted to pull my hair out almost every day trying to work with him... he was born with the spirited/strong willed temperament.... just like mommy .... but when we go through these stages where I see all of my hard work from those hard times coming through, I know I am making the right choice and its worth it. When he was just past two every day was a challenge, and at the end of the days it wasn't uncommon for me to tuck him into bed and go into the living room and bawl to my husband that I was a terrible mother and had no idea what I was doing because I was putting in effort and seeing little fruit... but then a couple months later every day is beautiful and he's such a sweet kid

I hope this encourages someone.

I hear there is another one of those challenging times when they turn 3.

Two ongoing fruits I've seen since changing to this kind of style of parenting have been:
1. better trust means problems are resolved more quickly
2. my DH and I are regularly told that we are sweet!

It is soooooo cute

Yesterday I had several comments from my MIL that my 5 month old, is "too attached" to his parents. How can a BABY be too attached to his parents?! Just because he doesn't want to let her hold him. She also tried the guilt "Well you hurt my feelings" on a baby. She'd do that to my nephew at 4-5 to get him to do what she wanted but on a baby.

Again, how can my 5 month old be too attached. Silly .

Why why why why WHY do people justify hitting their children with scripture

Linnis said:

Yesterday I had several comments from my MIL that my 5 month old, is "too attached" to his parents. How can a BABY be too attached to his parents?! Just because he doesn't want to let her hold him. She also tried the guilt "Well you hurt my feelings" on a baby. She'd do that to my nephew at 4-5 to get him to do what she wanted but on a baby.

Again, how can my 5 month old be too attached. Silly .

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David was very much "attached" to us in different stages where he would stand behind us when all these people that weren't on his special list would try to talk to him ... he's much better now

Sign Of The Fish Burger said:

Why why why why WHY do people justify hitting their children with scripture

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Hey now don't go get our nice happy thread shut down.... you could make another thread to ask this question.

My husband's family is rude when it comes to our parenting style. The loaded questions, while seem nice aren't like "Why is he still nursing?" or comments like "Good babies sleep through the night." So my baby not good? If an adult can't sleep 8-10 hours in a row every single night, are they bad people? Or does this only apply to babies.

As for my MIL's "too attached" comment, I bet it's because he doesn't mind other people even ones he only sees at church. It's just her.