I'll allow that you have some.Assyrian said:....We have faith in God too Kenneth.
Assyrian
RenHoek said:So then you will understand when the same type of “persecution” coming from the scientific community deems YEC’s as backward, redneck, NASCAR-loving, flat-out-moronic, uneducated, inbred, un-evolved, and to quote my new buddy "patheticly stupid"… Welcome to humanity.
Perhaps, but there are many scientists who do, and they use evolution to try to eliminate the need for a God as a creator.
Pats said:I've read about half of this thread, and I plan on reading the other half.
I'd really like to see more than just opinion. I'm hoping to see some scripture. I've been attempting to study this issue from scripture.
One thing is clear.... I don't think it's cut and dry.
kenneth558 said:I'll allow that you have some.
USincognito said:As far as theology or salvation goes, I can only comment on what I've seen and that's there seems to be more people who are YECs who lose their faith, or at the very least suffer a crisis of faith when dealing in ernest with the subject of evolution than marginal believers adopting a more fundamentalist theology.
Of course the sad part of that observation is if those people hadn't been so psychologically and emotionally wedded to to YECism, they might still be believers today.
stumpjumper said:Well... Does it really matter?
I fail to see how it really makes that much difference in soteriology, Christology, Bibliology, etc, etc. I guess I just don't know why it is still such a major issue in Christianity... There are very few people or groups that really doubt the theory of evolution but those that do are motivated by religious belief.
Why is that?
Theories about our biological origin really don't have very much to do with faith and I have never understood why it really matters...
Let me know why it matters, if it does, please...
stumpjumper said:I don't know if it's universally true with all fundamentalist deconverts (ie they deconverted because of strict young earth creationism) but it is true for many people who disbelieve YEC and then leave their faith...
jellybean said:If i found cause to beleive in God again, regarding origins theory, i would beleive the same thing!
im glad this one is open, it was something on my mind
consideringlily said:I have to straighten out things my children are taught by some Christians. I would prefer not to. But I want them to know the best I can tell them about the world.
Lion of God said:To a great degree, Christianity today has aligned itself into two extreme camps, TE and YEC. OEC or Gap theology is jumped on by both sides leaving "deconverts"
no middleground to regroup from. From that perspective, both sides are at fault.
Lion of God said:To a great degree, Christianity today has aligned itself into two extreme camps, TE and YEC. OEC or Gap theology is jumped on by both sides leaving "deconverts"
no middleground to regroup from. From that perspective, both sides are at fault.
jellybean said:no really, who says that (say for a moment he exists) God didnt create the universe this way, as opposed to the main genesis view?
RenHoek said:I my view, any atheist who pursues the TofE is out to disprove God, knowingly or not. They reject the idea that they might have to be accountable to a higher being. Is this their sole goal? Perhaps not. Would they admit as much if pressed? Perhaps not. I go by the arrogance of the scoffers I have encountered.
Lion of God said:To a great degree, Christianity today has aligned itself into two extreme camps, TE and YEC. OEC or Gap theology is jumped on by both sides leaving "deconverts"
no middleground to regroup from.
rmwilliamsll said:You need to address this issue with AiG, which ran a campaign for people to publically challenge their not-YECist pastors on the origins issue. In politics that is called sedition.
jereth said:But as far as I can tell, OEC/Day-Age is full or internal contradictions, and if you try to pursue its ideas to their logical end you end up at YECism (or in the wilderness).
jereth said:A very accurate observation. Something I've learnt from this forum is that if there are any OECs/Gappists/Day-Agers out there, they are either very small in number or very quiet.
It's no accident that there are 2 "extreme" camps. We're dealing with 2 mutually exclusive and irreconcilable paradigms. Anyone who tries to straddle the 2 camps or find middle ground is fooling themself.
YEC and TE are both internally consistent thought systems which have been pursued to their logical ends (well, some would say that if YEC was pursued to its logical end we would have geocentricism or flat-earthism, and they would be entirely correct, but that's for another discussion... ) But as far as I can tell, OEC/Day-Age is full or internal contradictions, and if you try to pursue its ideas to their logical end you end up at YECism (or in the wilderness).
jereth said:To repeat myself, however: being called a scientific idiot is nothing compared to being called a second-class or inferior Christian.
That's absolutely no justification for this sustained and brutal attack from one segment of the church against another segment of the church. Shouldn't we be banding together to fight the secularists together? This is just as hurtful -- when YECist Christians effectively group us together with atheistic evolutionists and attack us with the one gun. And it is very revealing of the fact that for many YECists, the ultimate dividing factor is not faith in Christ, but belief in evolution.
Lion of God said:That sounds really great, jareth. My experience however differs considerably. I normally avoid the public CreVo forums here at CF because I have found that any comments made there by any Christian other than a TE will have to be defended against both the TE's and the secular evolutionists. TE's in my experience will band together with atheists long before they will with a YEC or an OEC/Gapper.