Open discussion on Pagan/Occult video games

[Telrunya]

I agree with that, but I don't think I agree with the usage of it. I don’t think that means to actually participate in things that the world is, doing them yourself, but to stand apart from it yet still in reach of giving them a better way. I mean, we do not need to become Mormons to witness to Mormons, do we? We don’t need to put on the sacred underwear and attend their temple to get through to them, do we? If we do the same things as they, what sets us apart from what they do?

What this means is don’t lock yourself in a convent and ignore the people in this world, be in society but don’t do the things that they do. Be the salt of the Earth, not a mixed substitute that does not retain it’s flavor.

I dont see that playing a game is "doing the things that they do" in context of failing in spiritual warfare and I certainly take umbarage at being called a mixed substitute that does not retain it's flavor when you have not seen the people I have ministered to in game or how I walk my walk with the Lord.

I think being in the world yet not of the world means we have to go where the lost are. This is more than just not walling yourself up in a convent. This is more than just not ignoring them. This means you have to actively engage them. Just because I'm in the game does not mean I am supporting the occult. I am there to fight it.

 

[Psalms34]

I dont see that playing a game is "doing the things that they do" in context of failing in spiritual warfare and I certainly take umbarage at being called a mixed substitute that does not retain it's flavor when you have not seen the people I have ministered to in game or how I walk my walk with the Lord.

Oh no doubt, who would want to be called that? ...who called you that?

I think being in the world yet not of the world means we have to go where the lost are. This is more than just not walling yourself up in a convent. This is more than just not ignoring them. This means you have to actively engage them. Just because I'm in the game does not mean I am supporting the occult. I am there to fight it.

Were in the bible are we called to "fight" it? Victory has already been achieved. We are called to expose it.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
That's what I'm doing here, exposing it. I don't need to participate in it to expose it, we are not called to do that, I meet people in various places and am able to talk to them about it as I have and even as I am doing here.
How do we expose it if we are participating in it? There is a word for that...

 

[Telrunya]

Well we will have to agree to disagree on wether it is occult to play video games with "magic" in them. I dont believe it is. I know there are people who are practicing wiccans and pagans who play these games and I am there to answer thier questions, provide a witness in my words and actions in game, and to have fun.

 

[Psalms34]

I don’t understand “occult to play with magic in them” but am referring to the games content being Occultic imagery and thought by design which is absolutely apparent. It is a representation of Occultism just like playing a flight simulator which is based on piloting aircraft. It is like attending kindergarten before attending the first grade, where in kindergarten one is prepared for the many years of school. It's like a bible tract, but it is for the Occult. It exists in this form, and should be exposed for what it is.

What do you do with a bible tract that a JW may hand you? You maybe read it and give a response pointing out the fallacies of the things written on the tract? Or do you accept it, carry it around with you, read it over and over, share it with others? You expose it to them of course, when they hand it to you, then if they don’t accept it you walk away and dispose of the tract.

 

[jive4005]

"Pretend" is not something evil. I played D&D for over 15 years and it didn't harm me at all. Why? Because it was a GAME and I understood it to be such. Honestly, people get freaked out over such silly stuff.

rev

 

[Sylvanspirits]

Ever hear of or play World of Warcraft? EverQuest, Ultima, Elder Scrolls or Dungeons and Dragons Online? …just to name a few.

So what do you think of the article, or these games in general? I’d like to hear examples of your personal experiences with the games or with people that play these games. Where do you think it is all headed? Where are we at now? I certainly see more realism being added to these Occult simulators as technology improves. I used to play these games years ago, but one day I got my spanking, or a wake up call that is. Ever go through that? What once seemed like harmless fun, something that was so pixilated and shallow on a screen that it seemed to nearly make no sense, yet realism generated by the power of today’s systems are definitely changing that from what I see.

I've played Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn, Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal, Neverwinter Nights, Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide, Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark, Neverwinter Nights 2, Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer, and several others.

The recurring character I play most in games set in the Forgotten Realms setting of D&D is a Neutral Good cleric (priest) of Lathander (god of dawn, renewal, creativity, and vitality.)

Assuming that a person is capable of distinguishing the difference between reality and fantasy, and is otherwise of sound mind, such games are perfectly harmless. I certainly can't think of anyone I know of who has been affected by them in any negative way.

In my opinion, the article appears to be written by someone who is either misinformed, and is much like several others I have encountered. I've spent some time in the past debunking these, but I'm afraid I don't spend much time doing so anymore. However, I can say that in the past, I have found such articles to be full of errors and incorrect information.

In my opinion, the games are progressing to gradually appeal more towards instant gratification rather than the detailed stories of earlier years, but they are generally as harmless as ever.

IMO, it's just another one of the targets that have been blamed for society's problems, just like novels, movies, comic books, and rock music.

 

[Nadiine]

"Pretend" is not something evil. I played D&D for over 15 years and it didn't harm me at all. Why? Because it was a GAME and I understood it to be such. Honestly, people get freaked out over such silly stuff.

rev

Ya well cartoons are pretend too... is pretend PORN fine for kids since it's porn is in cartoon format?

Here we go with this "it's fantasy" therefore it's OK. 1/2 naked women in fantasy aren't OK for little kids just pawning it off to "it isn't real".

Content is everything; fake or not. And who knows better how to use fantasy & what's not real than Satan to lure people into darkness?

 

[Nadiine]

I'm more amazed at the dark content that Christians are so eager to play with.

And "harm" is also subjective since many times you have no clue how it's affecting you in reality becuz alot of Satan's work takes time to set up & continue shooting the arrows.

When I hear "it's harmless" I don't just automatically assume all's fine - namely when I don't know a person's doctrines or personal walk with Christ.
& frankly, it's none of my business how other people's walk's are.
But that's only to say that what we claim isn't harmful we don't always see being done till much later.

 

[Nadiine]

IMO, it's just another one of the targets that have been blamed for society's problems, just like novels, movies, comic books, and rock music.

This statement here shows me that harm HAS been done when you're willfully turning a blind eye to dark influences that are affecting society.

Thanks for proving my very points about harm and the people who claim none is being done when it actually is.
As if now movies & rock music have NO negative, or antiChristian influence on youth today.
This is called desensitization and being blinded to what is evil.

 

[Sylvanspirits]

Certainly, movies have some influence, especially today as more is permissible than was allowed in the early days of the 1920's. Rock music's influence is negligible. If anything, "gangsta" rap music could be said to be having an effect, though I would imagine it is very little.

I do not turn a blind eye to society's problems, and I haven't proven your point at all, IMO.

Consider this: There has been a school shooting. What is easier - to blame video games for the deaths caused, and push for new legislation on video games to score political points, or to examine the deeper causes, that, for example, repeatly seeing their father repeatedly beat their mother in a drunken rage at a young age caused them to think that violence was the solution to their problems, and that this, coupled with being bullied at school, caused him to seize a firearm that was not locked up and was kept loaded, and exact revenge on his school?

Obviously, the first choice is easier. No one wants to blame the parents for a school shooting. It would also be political suicide.

Entertainment has a small effect, I won't deny that, but it is small in comparision to the major causes.

 

[Nadiine]

Certainly, movies have some influence, especially today as more is permissible. Rock music's influence is negligible. If anything, rap music could be said to be having an effect, though I would imagine it is very little.

I do not turn a blind eye to society's problems, and I haven't proven your point at all, IMO.


Consider this: There has been a school shooting. What is easier - to blame video games for the deaths caused, and push for new legislation on video games to score political points, or to examine the deeper causes, that, for example, repeatly seeing their father beat their mother in a drunken rage at a young age caused them to think that violence was the solution to their problems, and that this, coupled with being repeatly bullied at school, caused him to seize a firearm that was not locked up and was kept loaded, and exact revenge on his school?

Obviously, the first choice is easier. No one wants to blame the parents for a school shooting. It would also be political suicide.

Entertainment has a small effect, I won't deny that, but it is small in comparision to the major causes.

Ok, let's look at your comment "what's easier to blame"? Why are you asking that as if EVERY SINGLE incident is the same and has the same source???

No one here has said that "every single shooting is BECUZ of vid games". That's ludicrous. Where it's warrented, that IS part of the blame. Why wouldn't it be?
I blame people's evil hearts, what they feed their evil heart is all different.
I can also blame Porn for many divorces and ruined relationships too... sometimes that's exactly what promotes the damage. Not always.

Why are we so busy stuffing everything in categories as if everything has ONE source? I don't get this?
I'm at least glad you rephrased your statement tho to acknowledge that these factors do weigh into how a society degrades.
Your first post did not.

 

[LawsonAlan]

Just a thought . . .

Many of the popular mmorpgs contain no nudity, no sexual references, no foul language, no drug use, and no hate-style slander.

Breaking these rules can result in a permanent ban from the game.

And the magic is about as real as Witch Hazel from Bugs Bunny.

I just don't see these mmorpgs as promoting evil any more than popular novels, television, or magazines.

The bottom line, for me, is that if somebody is seriously seeking evil, they'll find it even if you burned all the books, smashed all the TVs, and took away all the video games.

As for the folks who are not seeking evil, they won't be lured into it no matter how prevalent it is (or seems to be).

 

[Sylvanspirits]

For the record, my first post merely said that entertainment had been blamed for society's problems. They tend to make an easy target. I did not say that all of them were completely harmless, merely that I believe fantasy video games to be harmless.

Again, I did not say every incident is the same. I simply gave an example, and pointed out that it is easier to blame video games.

I'm not attempting to say that everything has one source either. If it will make it easier, perhaps I could state my position on this.

Entertainment generally has a very small effect on social problems, often with those that have difficulty seperating fantasy from reality. The impact of entertainment has been historically overstated, because it makes for an easy target, rather than the complex combination of social problems that actually cause our society's problems, as well as the generally self-serving nature of humanity. While entertainment may factor into this, its impact is quite small.

 

[Nadiine]

For the record, my first post merely said that entertainment had been blamed for society's problems. They tend to make an easy target. I did not say that all of them were completely harmless, merely that I believe fantasy video games to be harmless.

Again, I did not say every incident is the same. I simply gave an example, and pointed out that it is easier to blame video games.

I'm not attempting to say that everything has one source either. If it will make it easier, perhaps I could state my position on this.

Entertainment generally has a very small effect on social problems, often with those that have difficulty seperating fantasy from reality. The impact of entertainment has been historically overstated, because it makes for an easy target, rather than the complex combination of social problems that actually cause our society's problems, as well as the generally self-serving nature of humanity. While entertainment may factor into this, its impact is quite small.

K but what you're now specifying is a far cry from your original statements, it would be helpful if you would be more clear from the start.

Easy target or not, they are PART of the problems going on. And we have to remember that the majority are not Christian and they don't view the games like a Christian would in the same understanding of right and wrong.

We tend to view the world thru our lenses, but they're lost and negative towards God. So this stuff has more impact on them in a negative way & Satan can & does use it to his advantage.
This is what I'm getting at.

 

[Kelly]

So, is running a wizard in a videogame, pushing a button on the graphic user interface to launch an attach spell called "fireball" at a group of enemy monsters a gateway into the occult?

 

[Psalms34]

Proverbs 6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard! Consider her ways and be wise

Do you know what that is? That's role-play! It's a tool used to change a person. Role-play is in the bible, it does have an effect. Yes, role-play a wizard, you are going to be effected, in some way or another you will be effected. It's not about fantasy vs. reality or how strong of a Christian one thinks they are and how people that stay away from this stuff are considered spiritually weak (I've hear it said). It's about feeding the mind things that our Lord told us not to. We are told to feed the mind with the words of our Lord, not the words of another Lord.

The thing is people say it does not effect them, but how do they reeeeealy know that? Are they two persons? Was there a control sample taken of them like in a lab experiment to distinguish how one is now compared to if they had never let this stuff into their mind and heart? Does it also show the final result?

As for the mention of legislation in a previous post, to legislate this away or what not, last I checked we had freedom of religion in this nation (the USA), so no, no one is trying to legislate this away, it is religious by nature. However, I have every right to expose it as being such, to implore people to stay away from it and not be fooled into accepting it as some sort of harmless entertainment. It's not harmless, it's about various Occult beliefs; it's another Master.

 

[Kelly]

You're missing the point. Exploring tarot cards, books on spells, voodoo, horoscopes, tea readings astrology...basically anything 'magical' you study or seek to gain something (clarity on your future, speak with dead, change people's opinions of you, increase your forture, etc) is dabbling in magic and flat out sinful.

Playing a spellcaster in a videogame isn't. I am putting NO (zero, nil) stock in the videogame's ability to change my life or outcomes. It's entertainment and it's only crime is wasting time, but TV's much worse.

 

[jive4005]

Nadine... certainly THAT kinda stuff is bad... but going to overboard levels in anything is usually harmfull. Fact is, the vast majority of people just play and move on... not delving into evil realms.

rev

Ps: I bet the devil enjoys "Henny Penny".

 

[Nadiine]

Nadine... certainly THAT kinda stuff is bad... but going to overboard levels in anything is usually harmfull. Fact is, the vast majority of people just play and move on... not delving into evil realms.

rev

Ps: I bet the devil enjoys "Henny Penny".

Well hey, you want to make the statement that anything labeled "fantasy" is just that, FAKE.

The point I'm making is that everything isn't just "safe and harmless" if it's fake and labeled "fantasy". Far from it in fact. In fact, more damage is done in introducing evil to innocent people thru what is 'fun and humorous' than serious and graphic imho.

How have they done such a good job getting homosexuality accepted? HUMOR in entertainment. They've put gays in a positive light & used humor to 'lighten us up' about homosexuality. Over the years we see them as nonthreatening & 'good' people.

& the other point being made is that what you're playing with IS EVIL IN IT'S VERY NATURE being of Satanic origin & what God calls abomination. How is it 'safe' if you don't go overboard in levels when the content is all about Satan's kingdom & participating in his realms for fun? Using demonic symbols, etc.??

Sorry, I used to use the same arguments you do - I just don't buy into them anymore. Nope, I'm no expert on this, but it just seems that Christians here seem to have a real appetite for these dark games & I do wonder why that is. (me included in the past).

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Diablo II... nothing smites evil like a Barbarian with double warhammers.