Only way?

Albion · Oct 6, 2016

Can we say that...or is the point rather that the Gospel will be preached throughout the world? If one person fails to hear it for some reason, I can't believe that this means the Great Commission has been thwarted or is incomplete.

brinny · Oct 6, 2016

Only way?

Just_a_Joe said:
I've been reading and studying the Bible for many years.

You have heard now, have you not?

So has ev'ry person who has seen and read this thread and many similar threads, or posts, messages, or opened a Bible, seen it on a billboard, seen it on the side of a bus, and/or heard it or overheard it said, read, or posted.

You are correct. Jesus the Christ is the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living. He said Himself that HE is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

Did you mean something else re: the title of your thread?

miknik5 · Oct 6, 2016

Do all have the RIGHT GARMENT at THE WEDDING?

Matthew 22

If they slip through the DOOR but don't have the Garment (and testimony to THE TRUTH) they will be found out

miknik5 · Oct 6, 2016

Romans 10 is sufficient

ToBeLoved · Oct 6, 2016

[Staff edit]

I'm sure that God, who created all that there is, can see to it that no one slips through the cracks. God knows the number of hairs on each of our heads.

[Staff edit]

miknik5 · Oct 6, 2016

What is silly?

miknik5 · Oct 6, 2016

Is Romans 3:25 through romans 3:26 silly?

Widlast · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

Jesus is the ONLY way, there is "no other name under Heaven, etc..".
To get to God the Father, you MUST go by God the Son.

That being said, how God goes about dealing with the pagan and faithless is not spelled out in detail.
It's rather obvious that damning people who never had the opportunity to know God in life would be rather cruel.
We'll know once it's all over, and I'm absolutely sure that God will treat all involved fairly.
Nobody will be in Hell who does not want to be there.

Archivist · Oct 6, 2016

I had an interesting discussion with a friend the other day about whether Anne Frank will be in heaven or hell. He claimed that if she died a Jew she will not be among the saved. I like to hink otherwise, and in either case I leave the question in God's hands. If she is in heaven, which is where I hope she will be, I look forward to having many conversations with her.

redleghunter · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
In the past and today as well. Evangelism worldwide overall doesn't mean it reaches every single person.

From our observation that may be true. What about from God's perspective?

2PhiloVoid · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

Hi Just_a_Joe,

If the Bible doesn't tell us in an exact and comprehensive way as to "how" God will judge on Judgement Day, then why would it be a surprise for Christians to say "we don't exactly know"? What we DO KNOW is that those who end their life in rejection of Christ, knowingly and willingly, will have absolutely no moral recourse by which to deflect God's evaluations. So ... for those who haven't heard of Christ, then all I CAN say about them, from my personal POV, is that I can only see them as people with a big ? written on their backs. And I think this would be the most accurate (and honest) thing for any Christian to say.

p.s. Some theologians hold to the idea of judgement according to the positive response people have to the amount of light (or truth) that God provides in their lives, and that their faith response, whether focused clearly on Christ or not, is still a faith response in the God who provided the Christ by whom we receive grace, mercy, and the "payment" for our sins. So ... IF ... this is the case, and perhaps it is, perhaps it's not, then more people will "make it" to heaven than we might expect.

2PhiloVoid

Jonathan Mathews · Oct 6, 2016

Hello Joe (OP).

This is a great question. It is asked by many people who are wondering how God could send an innocent person to Hell.

The answer is, He doesn't. First, no one is innocent of sin as a spiritual condition. So while we all deserve destruction as corrupted beings, God is merciful. He makes sure every person has an opportunity to experience Him and chose whether to love Him or hate Him.

The question you're asking is really better served by asking "Does God give everyone a choice, and if so, how?"

The answers to these questions, and your original question, come from the Bible...

Romans 1:20
"For his [God's] invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they [people rejecting God] are without excuse."

God says there's enough of His imprint in the Creation alone to "tell the Gospel" to all living creatures.

Another example is John the Baptists and Jesus' first "meeting". They were both babies in their mother's womb, yet John perceived the presence of God and "lept for joy" (Luke 1:41)

This shows God is near to every human, even before they are born, and even unborn babies can, with their own spirit, embrace or despise God, even before they are born.

God can be be close to anyone at anytime because God's Spirit fills the whole earth as we read in Jeremiah 23:24...

"Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the LORD. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the LORD."

BOTTOM LINE: God stretches out his arms towards all humans, surpassing all physical limitations, and offering them His loving embrace. We all get that choice, from the moment God creates our spirit within our body to the point when our spirits leave our bodies.... from conception to death.... and even possibly BEFORE our creation! (Read Ephesians 1:4)

May your searching be richly rewarded!
-Jon

redleghunter · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
I understand. I've been reading and studying the Bible for many years. It's not a very clear book, not consistent and not without contradictions. There are also almost as many interpretations of it as there are believers.

Sorry for the piecemeal response but getting to your comments as best I can today.

On the above, the use of words such as inconsistencies and contradictions loom large. Both words are packed with pre-suppositional human understanding of either what we think God should be, or what we want God to be like.

I believe a much better approach to understanding the revelations of God (The Holy Scriptures) is to approach the difficulties we encounter as paradoxes. More specifically the definition of which would be: a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.

For example, we do see revealed that God will judge and punish transgressors of His Law. However, we do see also revealed "grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." And that God is patient and longsuffering so that none would perish.

I think our human element of being the created being sometimes causes us to approach God's Holiness in a jaded manner. We look for ways to explain how an Aboriginal never contacted by a missionary can be saved; or we fathom that God is some 'big meanie' who creates some for destruction and some for righteousness. How does God reveal His Will towards His creation? He invites us to abundant life:

Isaiah 55: New King James Version (NKJV)

55 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.

2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.

3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
4 Indeed I have given him as a witness to the people,
A leader and commander for the people.
5 Surely you shall call a nation you do not know,
And nations who do not know you shall run to you,
Because of the Lord your God,
And the Holy One of Israel;
For He has glorified you.”

6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.

8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.

10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (NKJV)

I understand Joe...you have a big heart and want everyone to get an equal shot. Everyone to have the knowledge we both have. Can't fault you for that as most of us think like that. We must trust God's ways and thoughts are way better than anything we can fathom. We must trust God is Just. We must trust God's judgment.

Frankly, that is what trust and faith is about. A trust and faith based on what is revealed from God.

Edit: Check this out:

http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/22/spurgeons-theology-embracing-biblical-paradox/

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 6, 2016

Albion said:
.... There wouldn't be any "escape clause" for him such as he wants for Mongolians.

Likewise, unless they also each seek the one true God, for buddhists there is no redemption, nor hindus, nor jws,
nor moogoomagoo in china , mongolia, africa, russia or the usa,
if and because they serve other gods.(false gods, idols). i.e. they trust wood or stone or money or anything else besides the CREATOR HIMSELF.

redleghunter said:
From our observation that may be true. What about from God's perspective?

If though, ANYONE [anywhere on earth] seeks YHWH the CREATOR,
with or without a bible or [previous?] hearing of JESUS,
they will find HIM; that is YHWH'S WORD, and HE GUARDS HIS WORD more than even HE GUARDS HIS OWN NAME.

Albion · Oct 6, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
Likewise, unless they also each seek the one true God, for buddhists there is no redemption, nor hindus

That thought crossed my mind, too, as I was typing the last post. For Buddhists, there is no God, so even the theory that acknowledging some god or other as the creative force behind the universe will do...doesn't hold water.

redleghunter · Oct 6, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff said:
If though, ANYONE [anywhere on earth] seeks YHWH the CREATOR,
with or without a bible or [previous?] hearing of JESUS,
they will find HIM; that is YHWH'S WORD, and HE GUARDS HIS WORD more than even HE GUARDS HIS OWN NAME.

I agree.

Jonathan Mathews · Oct 6, 2016

yeshuaslavejeff is right. Whoever seeks God will be directed by God to His Son Jesus Christ, the only "Way" into Heaven, the only front door.

zippy2006 · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

CCC 847: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. (Catechism of the Catholic Church)

Strong in Him · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

That's not surprising, and if you want a yes/no answer, I don't think you'll get one.
We're not God and can't read his mind or answer for him. We can say what we think might happen, based on our knowledge of God and Scripture, but we don't know. If we were supposed to know, Scripture would tell us.

Just_a_Joe said:
The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

My own personal thoughts, with which others may disagree; no.

If someone has the Gospel explained/presented to them, they are told that only Jesus saves, have the opportunity to respond but decide to walk away, and if they reject any future opportunities to respond to the Gospel, and say that they don't want God in their lives; when they die, God will respect their decision to be separated from him.

But if someone has never heard the Gospel, doesn't know God's love and grace and has not heard of Jesus - how can they have deliberately chosen to reject him?
And, personally, I don't believe that God, who is love, will condemn someone for not knowing him when they never had that chance.

com7fy8 · Oct 6, 2016

Just_a_Joe said:
what fate awaits the people who haven't heard.

Right now, without Jesus, they miss out on how they could be with God in His love through Jesus > Romans 5:5.

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