Only LDS in Celestial Kingdom

Rescued One · May 12, 2010

Of course, not! Anyone who believes and obeys what LDS call the true gospel could very well be there. Maybe they were members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Early-day Saints, or some other name. They would need to have been baptized by one who had authority and they would have had to strive with all their might to obey the commandments that were revealed at that time. Then in the spirit world they must hear and accept the rest of the commandments of the "one true gospel."

Okay, so which parts of the gospel were missing in Jesus' time according to LDS teachings? Probably very few. The reason I conclude this is because The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints claims to be a restoration of the gospel.

The Purpose of Temples Anciently
In Old Testament times, temples served two distinct functions. First, they were places of revelation. God promised, for example, to manifest himself to His people in the temple-tabernacle made in the wilderness by Moses and the children of Israel (see Ex. 25:8, 22). Secondly, they were places where sacred ordinances were performed. God revealed these ordinances to Moses in the tabernacle (see D&C 124:38), to the prophet Nathan in the temporary temple-tabernacle at Jerusalem (see 2 Sam. 7:2; D&C 132:39), and to Solomon in his temple (see 1 Kgs. 6:12). Both of these temple functions would necessarily have to be part of the latter-day “restitution of all things” (Acts 3:21)...

The Doctrine and Covenants is a handbook for learning about and deepening our appreciation of the covenants and ordinances of the temple...

The Lord then continued to give instructions in the revelations regarding His promise to endow His people with power: “And ye are to be taught from on high. Sanctify yourselves and ye shall be endowed with power” (D&C 43:16). This promise was fulfilled when priesthood keys necessary to perform temple ordinances were restored in April 1836 (see D&C 110:13–16).Richard O. Cowan, “The Unfolding Restoration of Temple Work,” Ensign, Dec. 2001, p. 34

What about Protestants, Catholics, Hindus and Muslims? They will also be required to accept the "one true gospel" in order to inherit the Celestial Kingdom. They will have that opportunity to accept the gospel in the Spirit Prison.

Moodshadow · May 12, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
What about Protestants, Catholics, Hindus and Muslims? They will also be required to accept the "one true gospel" and will have that opportunity in the Spirit Prison.

I realize that the highlighted word, above, is your own word, Phoebe Ann, and not taken from scripture, but you have hit upon a major sticking point with that word. If it were scripture it might say that these people might be "given the opportunity" to accept, etc., instead of "required," so that that all-important free agency principle could be brought into play. But you are correct when you say that acceptance is in fact required in order for the desired objective to be achieved.

Obiwan · May 12, 2010

So.... What is your point???

Anyone has the potential of being in the Celestial Kingdom if they are worthy of it.

1. God knows mens hearts. Some scripture seems to indicate that if rejected one cannot make it, but what constitutes "actual" rejection??? I rejected once, does that mean I won't make it? I suspect certain contra's won't make it, but those who have rejected after that, is still between them and God.
2. God placed man, for his own purposes, thus a righteous Buddhist still has as much as a chance as a righteous Christian.
3. Ordainances including Celestial ones are done for ALL in LDS Temples, not just mormons.

Being in the Lords Church and/or Knowing Christ doesn't make you "better" than everyone else, it makes you Called to Serve. It makes you Watchmen on the Tower. It makes you "Servants" of the Most High.

Contrary to popular Christian belief, the Christian is not "better" than others.....

2 Corinthians 3:
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Mark 9:
34 But they held their peace: for by the way they had disputed among themselves, who should be the greatest.
35 And he sat down, and called the twelve, and saith unto them, If any man desire to be first, the same shall be last of all, and servant of all.

36 And he took a child, and set him in the midst of them: and when he had taken him in his arms, he said unto them,

37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.

38 ¶ And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.

40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Read these verses carefully..... It's absolutely clear that those engaged against mormonism is not of Christ in that action. In fact, in the verses after these Christ states such should "cut" that offending part off in order for them to remain saved.

Obiwan · May 12, 2010

Moodshadow said:
I realize that the highlighted word, above, is your own word, Phoebe Ann, and not taken from scripture, but you have hit upon a major sticking point with that word. If it were scripture it might say that these people might be "given the opportunity" to accept, etc., instead of "required," so that that all-important free agency principle could be brought into play. But you are correct when you say that acceptance is in fact required in order for the desired objective to be achieved.

When you are up in the Spirit World, Heaven, or whatever..... and your "eyes are open", and the Vail of Blindness is no longer blinding you, are you REALLY going to "not accept" the Fullness of Christ, whatever it might be most like, Catholic, Mormon, etc.???

You talk as if you are going to be required to accept something "evil", something against your conscious??? Is THE TRUTH, whatever that Truth is really so "offensive" for you to accept???

Seems to me you are so offended because if mormonism is true, then that leaves a vile taste to your mouth. The thing you don't realize however, if it is actually true, then what is actually leaving a vile taste in your mouth is your false perceptions of it, not the actual truth of it. Because the actual Truth will and only can be sweet to the taste, and ever lasting so, not as a temporary pleasure.

Rescued One · May 12, 2010

Moodshadow said:
I realize that the highlighted word, above, is your own word, Phoebe Ann, and not taken from scripture, but you have hit upon a major sticking point with that word. If it were scripture it might say that these people might be "given the opportunity" to accept, etc., instead of "required," so that that all-important free agency principle could be brought into play. But you are correct when you say that acceptance is in fact required in order for the desired objective to be achieved.

Thanks! You knew what I meant. I'll edit my post.

Rescued One · May 12, 2010

Obiwan said:
Contrary to popular Christian belief, the Christian is not "better" than others.....

One Christian cannot be better than another; they all receive the same blessings in heavenly places.

"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).

Obiwan · May 12, 2010

Gospel Essentials Manual:

Celestial
“They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized, … that by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit.” These are they who overcome the world by their faith. They are just and true so that the Holy Ghost can seal their blessings upon them. (See D&C 76:51–53.) Those who inherit the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, who become gods, must also have been married for eternity in the temple (see D&C 131:1–4). All who inherit the celestial kingdom will live with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ forever (see D&C 76:62).
Through the work we do in temples, all people who have lived on the earth can have an equal opportunity to receive the fulness of the gospel and the ordinances of salvation so they can inherit a place in the highest degree of celestial glory.

Moodshadow · May 12, 2010

The key idea in the OP is the word "required." It completely weeds out all extraneous fringes, if you will. "They will also be required to accept the "one true gospel" in order to inherit the Celestial Kingdom." Any- and everyone who does not meet all the requirements of the "one true gospel" (meaning, of course, the complete and unexpurgated LDS version) cannot and will not be eligible for what the Mormons call the celestial kingdom. That is the dividing line.

Rescued One · May 12, 2010

Obiwan said:
But not all "Christians" are the same.... per the above scripture.

If "you" are the "true believers" having the "true authority" as the Apostles KNEW they did, and we are just ignorant "children" in comparison, then according to Christ you all should be leaving us alone and doing nothing to "offend" us.

But you are not......

Why are you using words such as ignorant? No Christian is ignorant because:

1. He has been born again (see John 3:3)
2. He has been turned from Satan's power to the power of God (See Acts 26:18)
3. He follows the Good Shepherd (see John 10:27)
4. He learns how to treat others (see Matthew 5:44)

Ran77 · May 12, 2010

Moodshadow said:
I realize that the highlighted word, above, is your own word, Phoebe Ann, and not taken from scripture, but you have hit upon a major sticking point with that word. If it were scripture it might say that these people might be "given the opportunity" to accept, etc., instead of "required," so that that all-important free agency principle could be brought into play. But you are correct when you say that acceptance is in fact required in order for the desired objective to be achieved.

And how is that different from the non-LDS view in Christianity? After all, isn't it non-LDS belief that you have to "accept" God. That is a requirement. How is this different?

drstevej · May 12, 2010

Was Brigham Young right in making this claim?

"No man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent"

sk8Joyful · May 12, 2010

drstevej said:
Was Brigham Young right in making this claim?

as God's saved-child, what does (what Brigham thought), matter? not.

Rescued One · May 13, 2010

drstevej said:
Was Brigham Young right in making this claim?

No.

Look at this:

"...that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ areI with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensationthe keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim"Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."
Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p.289

drstevej · May 13, 2010

LDS Hymnal said:
Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Chorus
Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven!
Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.
Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren;
Death cannot conquer the hero again.

Praise to his mem'ry, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assasins,
Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame.

Chorus

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old.

Chorus

Sacrifice brings forth the blessings of heaven;
Earth must atone for the blood of that man.
Wake up the world for the conflict of justice.
Millions shall know 'Brother Joseph' again.

This sounds like The Church of Joseph Smith rather than the Church of Jesus Christ.

Inclusion of this in the hymnal encourages others to sing these words and is an endorsement of such sentiments.

Moodshadow · May 13, 2010

drstevej said:
This sounds like The Church of Joseph Smith rather than the Church of Jesus Christ. Inclusion of this in the hymnal encourages others to sing these words and is an endorsement of such sentiments.

I so agree with this, and in fact, I would have put the first four words of the hymn in red, as well. A HYMN to anyone other than God Almighty???

drstevej · May 13, 2010

Moodshadow said:
I so agree with this, and in fact, I would have put the first four words of the hymn in red, as well. A HYMN to anyone other than God Almighty???

That's a valid point. This statement

Earth must atone for the blood of that man.

Just how is this atonement to be made?

"I could refer you to plenty of instances where men have been righteously slain, in order to atone for their sins. I have seen scores and hundreds of people for whom there would have been a chance... if their lives had been taken and their blood spilled on the ground as a smoking incense to the Almighty, but who are now angels to the Devil... I have known a great many men who have left this Church for whom there is no chance whatever for exaltation, but if their blood had been spilled, it would have been better for them....

This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it.... if you have sinned a sin requiring the shedding of blood, except the sin unto death, would not be satisfied nor rest until your blood should be spilled, that you might gain that salvation you desire. That is the way to love mankind." (Sermon by President Brigham Young, delivered in the Mormon Tabernacle, February 8, 1857; printed in the Deseret News, February 18, 1857; also reprinted in the Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 219-220)

Rescued One · May 13, 2010

The original words to that hymn were changed:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old...

* "Plead unto heaven" has replaced the words "Stain Illinois."

Obiwan · May 13, 2010

Phoebe Ann said:
The original words to that hymn were changed:

Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah!
Jesus annointed that Prophet and Seer.
Blessed to open the last dispensation,
Kings shall extol him, and nations revere.

Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr;
Honored and blest be his ever great name!
Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins,
Stain Illinois* while the earth lauds his fame.

Great is his glory and endless his priesthood.
Ever and ever the keys he will hold.
Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom,
Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old...

* "Plead unto heaven" has replaced the words "Stain Illinois."

You know, if you actually engaged in the same kind of effort with such "minutia" with your own religion and the Bible, you would no longer be a Christian.

Anything can be made to look "bad" if you dig deep enough and then always promoting it as the "truth".... Such a shame and a waste of talent.

drstevej · May 13, 2010

Obiwan said:
You know, if you actually engaged in the same kind of effort with such "minutia" with your own religion and the Bible, you would no longer be a Christian.

Anything can be made to look "bad" if you dig deep enough and then always promoting it as the "truth".... Such a shame and a waste of talent.

Obi... does it not bother to sing such praise to a man?

And I do look at the details of my religion and the Bible. That's why I spent 7 years in post graduate theological study and 35 years in pastoral ministry. And I am more convinced than ever that Jesus Christ is the one whose blood provides the gift of eternal life and that Joseph Smith has nothing to do with my eternal state.

You conclude my talents are wasted. I think you are wrong and have had many confirm that I am not wasting either my time or talents.

But if you ever catch me signing praises to Martin Luther or John Calvin in a church service I welcome you to rebuke such folly.

drstevej · May 13, 2010

Obiwan said:
Nope.... Does it bother you to sing praises to Paul, Peter, Moses, Abraham, etc. etc.??? I seem to recall such "praiseworthy" mentions in various Christian songs I've seen over the years.

Never in 43 years of attending worship weekly have I ever sung praise to Paul, Peter, Moses, David. Only the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

Obiwan said:
Is that kinda like Moses, John, Peter, etc. have "nothing to do with your Eternal state"??? Or is it just me and you don't read their words???

I read their words. My faith is in Jesus, not them.

Obiwan said:
Seems to me that since you read their words they have EVERYTHING to do with your Eternal State.

My eternal state is based upon what Christ has done for me. It is described in the Bible. He is the object of my faith, the Bible describes my faith.

Obiwan said:
As to Christ, that is not in question, and is a strawman attempt to discredit us.....

By your contra-mormonism you do..... And Christ would view the same. Read Mark 9.

You really should read the Sticky for this forum and edit this part.

Obiwan said:
So, like I mentioned above, no Prophets of scripture have any praiseworthy mention in any of your songs??? Or "never" have??? How bout historically in Christianity? Seem to recall a song or two about Peter??? hmmmmm???

Hypocracy and double standards.... such a sad thing.

Might want to cite some along with your accusation. I have specifically cited your hymnal. And You can add "O My Fathers" praise to "Heavenly Mother" to the list.

There is no double standard. Certainly not one you have documented in this post.

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