One World

Van · Dec 3, 2009

How different is no religion from no belief system such as creation by chance? Currently our laws accept that belief in God (of any sort) is a religion, but belief in no god, is not a religion. This seems arbitrary to me, like a conspiracy of no god folks imposing their world view on the "there is a God" folks. Your utopia would have everyone comply with your world view, whereas "heaven" has everyone complying with God's sovereign rule. Yet you look at your view as one without a religion and my view as one with a religion. From my side of the street, they look very much the same.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Hentenza said:
Honestly no. God does exist.

Let's just say it's a matter of opinion, won't we?

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

andreha said:
Amen to that.

I'd be lost without the Lord...

That's what you might think, but that's not how it is at all.

You see, you think you would be lost without Him, because you 'know' him. If you would never had even heard of christianity, never gotten in touch with it, would you still feel lost without it?

For example: today we would be totally lost if we'd lose our luxury.
And by luxury I mean pretty much everything.
Modern cities, buildings, internet, health care (meds, hospital), telephones, cars, roads, grocery stores, shops, bikes, toilets, electricity etc, you agree?

But to those people wandering this earth several thousands of years ago, none of this existed. They didnt know about a secure house that would keep out the cold and the rain. you got sick? Hope you'll just get better and eat some plants. Hungry? go catch a rabbit and some leaves.

Did they miss any of what I described above? Nope, because they didn't know anything else. If we wouldn't know about God, you wouldn't miss him either.

drich0150 · Dec 3, 2009

If we wouldn't know about God, you wouldn't miss him either.

Being "lost" without God has nothing to do with "missing" God.

Supreme · Dec 3, 2009

I'm talking about NO boundaries, NO countries, and NO religion.
One world, where everybody is free to go where he/she wants to.
Everybody is equal, your race and your origin wont matter.
No religions or anything like that, just perfect peace, love and acceptance.
One language everybody speaks for sure and one type of money.
No more poverty for certain parts of the world. No more hunger.
Less overpopulation in certain areas etc...

I think it'd be horrific.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Supreme said:
I think it'd be horrific.

Why?

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

drich0150 said:
Being "lost" without God has nothing to do with "missing" God.

Yes it does...

You can't imagine living on without God, just because you've known him.

You only THINK you would be lost without him, the truth is he doesn't exist and you still believe in him. Which is quite alot of evidence to me.

But let's say you were born and raised in some rainforest. All of the people you know and will ever know are your own tribe members. You're being taught about the one and only God, also known as "Mamamouchi".

Would you still feel lost? Would you think: "Hmm, for some reason I feel lost, I don't believe in Mamamouchi and it's like I'm missing some kind of spiritual dominant being."

The answer is no you wouldn't. The answer is that religion are stories told by parents to their children and other people. Which is why the all of the religions we know are situated that way. No Muslim would ever feel the need to actually believe in the christian God and Jesus. Just as you won't just abandon your faith and become a buddhist. Every religion claims their God to be the real one.
And this is why I don't believe in God.

Supreme · Dec 3, 2009

Thomas The Atheist said:
Why?

Diversity is an integral part of humanity. If we were all the same, how could life be worth living? If your proposed dystopia were to come true, we may as well be robots, all thinking alike. Oh, and there's the small issue of religion. I consider it a very important part of my life. I would never surrender it, and woul find it very hard to cope without it.

Supreme · Dec 3, 2009

No Muslim would ever feel the need to actually believe in the christian God and Jesus.

Every Muslim, without exception, believes in the 'Christian' God and Jesus. Have you ever researched religion?

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Willtor said:
A few questions:

1. Are you saying there would still be a government -- just not more than one?

Yep.

2. Do you not find different languages beautiful and fascinating?

I sure do! At school, I take Latin + Modern day languages.
Diverse languages are great, they are fascinating and beatiful indeed.
But one language everybody speaks, would certainly make things alot easier, wouldn't it?

People actually tried this, btw, with the language called "Esperanto".
It was a scientific and therefor very difficult language, and that's one of the reason it didn't work out.

I, by the way, am taking my english exam tomorrow I should be studying now but...
I've had an oral exam of latin at 12:15 this noon, and I already studied from 6-11:30 for that one, so I'm not really feeling like studying even more today.

3. Do you believe that everybody should believe the identical thing? Is there nothing more to learn in your utopia?

I'd say it's great people have their own point of view / ideas on something. But Religion has caused so much harm and did so much bad things, I would prefer a world without any... Besides that, I believe all religions are untrue, so I find it much better seeing people living their lives without any lies / false religions.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Supreme said:
Diversity is an integral part of humanity. If we were all the same, how could life be worth living? If your proposed dystopia were to come true, we may as well be robots, all thinking alike.

Thinking alike = not good.
Religion = not good either.
Not thinking alike but not having a religion = Great.

No religion does not mean all thinking alike.

Oh, and there's the small issue of religion. I consider it a very important part of my life. I would never surrender it, and woul find it very hard to cope without it.

You think you wouldn't be able to cope without it. But you could.

I'm most certainly not saying we should implement this idea of mine, no.
If it would just happen though, it would be great.
(Or if my utopia was to be formed during the early stages of mankind, that would be nice too.)

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Supreme said:
Every Muslim, without exception, believes in the 'Christian' God and Jesus. Have you ever researched religion?

And does every Christian believe in Allah, as he is described in the Quoran aswel? Or is it just one-sided, is the Christian God the one and only true God, and do all Muslims actually believe in the Christian God, when they think they're worshipping Allah?

Every Muslim believes in the creature described in the Quoran, whilst Christian believe that what's being said in the bible is true.
I don't think these 2 religious books are the same though.

Supreme · Dec 3, 2009

And does every Christian believe in Allah, as he is described in the Quoran aswel? Or is it just one-sided, is the Christian God the one and only true God, and do all Muslims actually believe in the Christian God, when they think they're worshipping Allah?

Your lack of knowledge in the area is confirmed. Christians and Muslims both worship the Abrahamic God.

No religion does not mean all thinking alike.

Well done, have a cookie for pointing out an obvious observation.

You think you wouldn't be able to cope without it. But you could

It's part of me and my identity as a human being. It is an essential part of my life. Do not comment on subjects on which you have very little knowledge.

I'm most certainly not saying we should implement this idea of mine, no.
If it would just happen though, it would be great.

This 'utopia' you've created seems like an almost direct copy of Stalin's Russia. Stalin was communist, just like this utopia. Stalin imposed the Russian language and culture on every minority group in the USSR. Stalin abolished religion and oppressed religion, enforcing atheism on people (and not many people like to give up their religion to be atheist). Stalin did not let people think for themselves, he imprisoned and executed independent thinktanks. In fact, the only part missing from Stalin's reign that you've included is democracy, but all for good measure, eh?

Oh, and I should mention Stalin was the most brutal dictator in history who thoroughly oppressed his people.

nhisname · Dec 3, 2009

Thomas The Atheist said:
Hey guys, just wanted to share some idea of mine with you.

What do you think, about one completely equal world.

I'm talking about NO boundaries, NO countries, and NO religion.
One world, where everybody is free to go where he/she wants to.
Everybody is equal, your race and your origin wont matter.
No religions or anything like that, just perfect peace, love and acceptance.
One language everybody speaks for sure and one type of money.
No more poverty for certain parts of the world. No more hunger.
Less overpopulation in certain areas etc...

A communist, liberal democracy with a president.

How do you guys feel about this?
Share your thoughts, please!

(post a comment, and i'll reply for sure)

This sounds exactly what God has planned for the believer in heaven.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

nhisname said:
This sounds exactly what God has planned for the believer in heaven.

that's nice

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Willtor said:
Godwin'd!

I don't quite follow you there.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

twistedsketch said:
Can't happen. No one can eliminate the problem of scarcity. There's a good record of what happened when people tried to accomplish that, though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyUu-8nbd58

I don't want to get rid of certain people etc, I would just like to be rid of that problem. No forcing or making someone do that, just POOF and it happens.

And if we'd have all people working together, perhaps there wouldn't be scarcity. If we'd have a great economy etc, we could produce enough resources.

nhisname · Dec 3, 2009

Thomas The Atheist said:
Yes it does...

You can't imagine living on without God, just because you've known him.

You only THINK you would be lost without him, the truth is he doesn't exist and you still believe in him. Which is quite alot of evidence to me.
I know, and empahzize know I would be lost without my anchor in Christ. God gives evidence of himself to every last one of us through his creation.

But let's say you were born and raised in some rainforest. All of the people you know and will ever know are your own tribe members. You're being taught about the one and only God, also known as "Mamamouchi".

Would you still feel lost? Would you think: "Hmm, for some reason I feel lost, I don't believe in Mamamouchi and it's like I'm missing some kind of spiritual dominant being."

The answer is no you wouldn't. The answer is that religion are stories told by parents to their children and other people. Which is why the all of the religions we know are situated that way. No Muslim would ever feel the need to actually believe in the christian God and Jesus. Just as you won't just abandon your faith and become a buddhist. Every religion claims their God to be the real one.
And this is why I don't believe in God.

You are right every religion did start by being handed down from father to son but the story had to start somewhere. Every man has been given some knowledge of God just by nature. If you are a man of morals where do you think your moral compass came from. This is the reason for idols. They are woshipping the created instead of the creator. God straightened that mis-conception out by choosing Israel as his people.
If you ever had the chance to know him you would know what we were talking about. The only difference between you and the tribesmen they have enough sense to know that there is something out there that is bigger than ourselves and has authority to have created this world we live in where as you've been give the precious knowledge of God but refuse it.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

nhisname said:
I know, and empahzize know I would be lost without my anchor in Christ. God gives evidence of himself to every last one of us through his creation.

Do you know you would be lost without your anchor in Christ, or without your anchor in A religious belief?

You are right every religion did start by being handed down from father to son but the story had to start somewhere.

yeah. the story started with some father coming up with a bedtime story for his child. I'm sorry to be this harsh, but it's the truth.

Every man has been given some knowledge of God just by nature.

No. Some people just get taught to believe, or raised with their believe. If not, they felt like they were missing something to give a meaning to their life, and thereover subconciously decided to believe.

If you are a man of morals where do you think your moral compass came from.

Click to expand...

They evolved. Just like we eventually learned putting your hand in a fire isn't smart, we learned that stealing / killing ain't good either.

If you ever had the chance to know him you would know what we were talking about.

Too bad, I once was a believer but deconversed.
And now that I can compare, I definitely know what's the best.

The only difference between you and the tribesmen they have enough sense to know that there is something out there that is bigger than ourselves and has authority to have created this world we live in where as you've been give the precious knowledge of God but refuse it.

Perhaps the only difference between me and them, is that I broke free from indoctrinating and managed to start thinking for myself.

Nobody got any precious knowledge of God. That's what you're making of it.

Thomas The Atheist · Dec 3, 2009

Supreme said:
Your lack of knowledge in the area is confirmed. Christians and Muslims both worship the Abrahamic God.

Okay. Let's just replace Muslims by the Tribesmen believing in the Mamamouchi, shall we?

Well done, have a cookie for pointing out an obvious observation.

you're the one who made "all thinking alike" out of no religion.

It's part of me and my identity as a human being. It is an essential part of my life. Do not comment on subjects on which you have very little knowledge.

What's a part of you and your identity? Believing or Believing in the Christian God? Feeling the need to believe that there is some higher power watching over you is human. Believing in Christ and God, on the other hand, isn't.

This 'utopia' you've created seems like an almost direct copy of Stalin's Russia. Stalin was communist, just like this utopia. Stalin imposed the Russian language and culture on every minority group in the USSR. Stalin abolished religion and oppressed religion, enforcing atheism on people (and not many people like to give up their religion to be atheist). Stalin did not let people think for themselves, he imprisoned and executed independent thinktanks.

-_-' I'm not gonna explain once again that I wouldn't enforce / oppress / impose anything.

In fact, the only part missing from Stalin's reign that you've included is democracy, but all for good measure, eh?

No, it isn't. Power is tempting. One ruler / dynasty would fall for the evil threats.

Oh, and I should mention Stalin was the most brutal dictator in history who thoroughly oppressed his people.

Nah, you shouldn't. I've come to learn quite a bit about Stalin already.

Once again, oppressing / forcing is NOT good.

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