One or zero sins

[D. Paul]

seebs, I'm really straining to figure out your approach to things Christian. Do you hold to Inerrancy? Do you love the Word of God? Have you read Isa 66:2? It seems you are so willing to take "only God and His Word" and dismiss any explanation by any man. That is a perspective greatly out of balance. For you to say "I point out again: The topic of salvation is one on which humans have not yet reached clarity." which indicates we humans can not be clear or certain regarding God's clear plan of salvation is a slap in God's face. You are telling Him He needs to be more precise. The fact that sin has obscured truth must be faced and your point is always at the fore, but for us to never trust a clear exposition because it came from a man would then cause us to ignore each and every mere man who spoke in scripture!

 

[D. Paul]

...and just an aside...

seebs, you say "There's an awful lot of speculation and debate for something "perfectly clear".
Do you not understand that people despise the truth of scripture when it slays us? when it lays us bare and exposes us to the penetrating light of God? Don't give me this "mayriad definitions of Sovereignty" concerning God. Either He is OMNI-potent/present/scient and rules over the affairs of men or He does not.

God made you a sceptic? Even of Himself?

 

[seebs]

(posts merged)

seebs, I'm really straining to figure out your approach to things Christian. Do you hold to Inerrancy?

No.

Do you love the Word of God?

Yes, but that's Jesus, not the Bible.

It seems you are so willing to take "only God and His Word" and dismiss any explanation by any man.

I will listen to anything, but I will not promise to accept something until I have heard it and considered it.

(...) we humans can not be clear or certain regarding God's clear plan of salvation is a slap in God's face.

No, it really isn't.

You are telling Him He needs to be more precise.

No. I don't think it is possible for us to be clear or certain; we are small and fragile, and are not suited to such things.

I am acknowledging that I am as I was made, uncertain and imperfect, and that I look to God to correct these qualities in me.

but for us to never trust a clear exposition because it came from a man would then cause us to ignore each and every mere man who spoke in scripture!

Not to ignore, only to consider carefully both what was meant, and how accurate it is, before accepting blindly.

seebs, you say "There's an awful lot of speculation and debate for something "perfectly clear".

Yes, I do.

Do you not understand that people despise the truth of scripture when it slays us?

Sure, but that, I think, is not sufficient.

when it lays us bare and exposes us to the penetrating light of God? Don't give me this "mayriad definitions of Sovereignty" concerning God. Either He is OMNI-potent/present/scient and rules over the affairs of men or He does not.

That doesn't get you away from the axiological problems and others.

What if God, being omnipotent, creates creatures of free will? Are you saying He can't? If He can, and He did, then they suddenly have the ability to act, yes?

God made you a sceptic? Even of Himself?

Yup.

We can either accept what God does, and try to learn from it what we can, and what He wants, or we can waste a lot of time complaining about it.

I trust God to have reasons to have made me a skeptic, and indeed, I have learned a lot from it, and I would not have it any other way.

 

[doclkk]

I was hoping for a response from someone that has orthodox theology

 

[seebs]

I was hoping for a response from someone that has orthodox theology

Then you're going to have a problem, because your concept of what "blasphemy" is, is so far removed from anything believed by orthodox branches of the faith that they can't really answer it apart from saying "you're wrong". Furthermore, this may not be the best forum in which to seek modern interpretations of "orthodox theology".

 

[bloodofthelamb12]

Hey guys, I just wanted to say something about Hebrews 6:4-6, as someone mentioned it being a "difficult" passage earlier: taken in context, it's nowhere near as difficult as it may seem at first. One must consider the circumstances of the epistle's original readers to fully grasp much of Paul's epistle to the Hebrews. These readers, being formerly Law-bound Jews, had once struggled beneath the yolk of the Old Covenant's Law; however, they had been freed from judgment for their transgressions against God's Law by their faith in the death and resurrection of Christ. Having thus been removed from the shadow of the Old Covenant's Law (both its restrictions and its sacrifices), they found themselves living under the New Covenant's grace. This verse, like other similar ones found in Hebrews, was warning those born-again Jews not to "fall away" from either their faith or their Savior; for if they denied the sacrifice of Christ, as indeed many were being pressured to do by both friends and family, there would "remain no further sacrifice for their sins." They would have severed themselves irreversably from both the Temple's sacrifice and Christ's. Such men would truly be an island; lacking any reason to hope for forgiveness of their sins. THAT is the sin which leads to the damnation of a believer; not mere doubt, but an absolute apostasy from Christ's sacrifice; an intentional and heart-felt denial of His gift of Salvation made fully of your own free will. Such is the sin that we must strive never to commit: such is the fate we must seek never to find.
Hope that clarified some of the difficulties you might've been having with that passage. Remember - doubt is natural; denial's deadly. God bless, and may I find you in the presence of Christ Jesus our Lord at the time beyond times and place beyond places.

 

[HomeBound]

This is a perspective that I thought about and would like to humor a discussion about.

So Jesus says that our sins are forgiven.

Follow this logic

Premise 1. Jesus died for all sinners
Premise 2. There is only one 'unforgivable' sin throughout the Bible - blasphemy against the Holy spirit.
Premise 3. All (except one) present and future sins are forgiven

So under these premises, everyone has either 1 or zero sins. Jesus forgave the rest of our sins, however if we do not believe (Biblical definition of believe, not webster's) in Christ - that is, blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, then we have one sin. One sin is enough for us to face hell.

Thoughts?

All will be forgiven of all sins, except for attributing the works of God to the powers of Satan.

You may not be forgiven in this life for everything, but you will be forgiven in the next, for all your FLESH will be purged off of your glorious SPIRIT which is the only thing you take to the Kingdom.

However you will not be forgiven in this life nor the next for attributing the works of God to the powers of Satan, because herein your Spirit is sin.