ONE LIE TO RULE THEM ALL

[EliasEmmanuel]

I think that these so-called christians are a device of Satan, used to cause the gradual growth of the tolerance of the churches for sin and evil. I mean, you can obviously see the effects today. It's just so sad that many can't see it, especially when it is wrriten clearly in the Bible that all this would happen.

Y'know what gets to me as much as that? People ignoring the really, really core teachings of Jesus. I'm talking beatitude material. Like "if someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other/love your enemies, bless those who curse you/if someone takes your coat, give them your shirt" stuff.

Frankly.... it seems like more often than not people are more concerned about being "right" on other things than this. If we miss this basic interpersonal stuff (which is all rooted in loving like Christ loved) then what we believe about gays or genesis doesn't get us anywhere. If we can't believe and follow the simple command to love our neighbors then all our moral uprightness is pointless (like Paul said).

Someone's undoubtedly going to think I'm being all ecumenical here, but I'm not. The "all religions are equally true" bit makes absolutely no sense to anyone with ever a cursory knowledge of world religions. But I see people get hung up on these moral points of contention in ways that lead in really unGodly directions. I have seen fellow Christians slandering each othwer left, right and sideways, spewing faulty information and rumors, all in the name of defending "values". I'm not saying these issues aren't important, I'm saying they should never take precidence over what is supremely important.

IMO, refusing to believe in and practice love for neighbors and enemies and forgivness is even more a betrayal of Biblical teaching and morality than saying Homosexuality is okay. Or at least right on the same level.

Just a different angle on all this.....

 

[mrversatile48]

As no answer in 3 days from Philip - (maybe technical problems with Internet connection, as I had in the past 2/3 days, inc from public PCs) - I'll try & answer

To me, the most telling phrase of Romans 2:1/4, in this context, is verse 4b - "God's kindness leads you towards repentance"

In the Great Commission, our top priority standing orders, Jesus commanded us to teach everyone to obey all things that He taught

He said elsewhere, "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments"

He also said, "I did not come to destroy the Law & the Prophets, but to fulfil them"

God makes it clear that He is a jealous God, who will not share His glory with idols

Hindus worship many idols, the Allah of Islam was 1 of over 300 idols, a moon-god, that false prophet Mohammed blasphemously elevated as the Almighty (That's why Islam's symbol is the crescent moon) Buddah & Confuscius are idolised

As Jesus prophesied in Matthew 24, etc, there are many false gods/christs/messiahs/prophets/teachers

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth & the life; no-one comees to the Father but by Me"

John 1, Colossians 1 & Hebrews 1 are very clear that Jesus is the Almighty Creator

Revelation 17 prophesied the Great harlot - (whoring after other, false gods) - to persecute the true Bride of Christ

It prophesies that this amalgam of all false reigions will be dominated by the forbidden occult - ("Mystery Babylon") - & that its HQ will be the 7-hilled city (of Rome)

The Treaty of Rome founded the then-EEC to fanfared visions of Revived Roman Empire, just as prophesied by Daniel 7 to crush, devour & trample victims till the Ancient of Days crushes it at the climax of history

The new EU constitution's historical pre-amble betrays its antichrist agenda

To omit the spiritual Reformation, that inspired so much Renaissance art, music, literature & science, is like reporting a party conference & omitting the keynote speech!

All the signs that the Bible forecast prove Jesus is coming soon: get ready!

That "gay marriage" thread, linked here earlier, consistently exalted & approved what God's Word calls perversion & abomination

Jesus prophesied, "Many will SAY to Me, 'Lord, Lord', but I will tell them, "Depart from Me, you cursed, into the fires prepared for the devil & his (fallen) angels"

Again, the kindness of God is meant to lead us to repentance

"God commands all, everywhere, to repent & believe the gospel"

God calls the shots

Nobody is clever enough to deflect Him from His purposes, or strong enough to defeat Him

Armageddon is when Christ slaughters Antichrist armies for daring to invade Israel & attack Jerusalem - (Joel 3, Zechariah 14 & Revelation 16/19)

"Now is the day of salvation"

Must get ready for worship now

God bless you more, the nearer you draw to Him!

Ian

 

[Zero]

I totally agree. No follower of Jesus should compromise in any way regarding what is right/wrong, but follow Jesus' example. How some people who call themselves 'Christians' can compromise so far that they accept Bhuddism and Islam as part of their 'religion' is entirely beyond my comprehension!

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

I totally agree. No follower of Jesus should compromise in any way regarding what is right/wrong, but follow Jesus' example. How some people who call themselves 'Christians' can compromise so far that they accept Bhuddism and Islam as part of their 'religion' is entirely beyond my comprehension!

Well see, that's just obvious.

My point was, what's less obvious (as people tend to concentrate on everything else) is how many people totally skip the basic teachings of Jesus from the sermon on the mount. As far as folks are concerned, a person can be unforgiving, bitter, xenophobic and compassionless and nobody will raise an eyebrow as long as he believes homosexuality is wrong, opposes abortion, believes other religions are false and doesn't smoke.

And that is as unbiblical as Universalism. Just something to think about. I know it's something I don't have down pat yet....

 

[white dove]

I agree with phillip here (and the majority of you who posted). I'd recently had discussions with women in my class who'd considered themselves christians, when in fact, they believed that the way to heaven was paved with good deeds (ahem, WHO was the Way, the Truth & the Light??) but I didn't bash them straight on; I simply remarked how confusing it was for me that we all considered ourselves christian but only three of us even mentioned christ. I've been seeing the same lukewarm attiitude that most of you have seen in this place(I was in a forum the other day where they were discussing sex before marriage; I would've posted something ~as you can tell I post a lot ~ but I figured that the main (biblical) points had been covered and that when people want to find loopholes, they'll find them and blind themselves to the Truth).Sinners tend to seek out justification for their sin (gay marriage laws anyone??), but it is rare when a Christ-accepting, God-fearing person will stand up for the Truth...sad, isn't it? Especially in a place such as this...but I'm glad ..no, OVERJOYED to see that true Christians are among us here~God Bless You All!!

 

[LuxPerpetua]

I'm late coming to this thread (sorry but I only registered last week )

I'm in total agreement with EliasEmmanuel's position. The fact remains that we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. It is only by God's grace that we are saved from our sins. My heart breaks when I see Christians pushing away "sinners" from their church doors by holding anti-gay rallies, anti-abortion protests, etc. Of course I think those things are wrong, too, but I feel that the strong stance of "I'm right and you are wrong and going to hell" only alienates those who need Christ's love and forgiveness. We have to show Christ's love to the world gently, not by force. When asked for my opinion on moral issues, I give it with Scriptural support, but I would never hate or belittle the sinner. That's cruel, in my opinion. I wish more Christians would remember Christ's commands of love, compassion, and non-judgment more often than whether or not evolution and homosexuality are evil. Sometimes I feel that we worry about the details and miss the bigger picture. If we lead others to Christ, the rest of this will come. JMHO.

 

[Faranor]

What a bunch ****! Yeah, Bush really wanted to invade Iraq for no reason, you know, just for the heck of it! Get real!

Well, according to some sources, he did..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/01/09/60minutes/main592330.shtml

 

[William Nunn]

Y'know what gets to me as much as that? People ignoring the really, really core teachings of Jesus. I'm talking beatitude material. Like "if someone slaps you on one cheek, offer the other/love your enemies, bless those who curse you/if someone takes your coat, give them your shirt" stuff.

Frankly.... it seems like more often than not people are more concerned about being "right" on other things than this. If we miss this basic interpersonal stuff (which is all rooted in loving like Christ loved) then what we believe about gays or genesis doesn't get us anywhere. If we can't believe and follow the simple command to love our neighbors then all our moral uprightness is pointless (like Paul said).

Someone's undoubtedly going to think I'm being all ecumenical here, but I'm not. The "all religions are equally true" bit makes absolutely no sense to anyone with ever a cursory knowledge of world religions. But I see people get hung up on these moral points of contention in ways that lead in really unGodly directions. I have seen fellow Christians slandering each othwer left, right and sideways, spewing faulty information and rumors, all in the name of defending "values". I'm not saying these issues aren't important, I'm saying they should never take precidence over what is supremely important.

IMO, refusing to believe in and practice love for neighbors and enemies and forgivness is even more a betrayal of Biblical teaching and morality than saying Homosexuality is okay. Or at least right on the same level.

Just a different angle on all this.....

I hope you weren't insinuating that I am encouraging hate and slander in churches, because I am not. I don't believe in closing church doors to everyone but Christians or anything. I DO however believe that we need to be firm in our Biblical and moral beliefs and not let the world influence our stance.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

I hope you weren't insinuating that I am encouraging hate and slander in churches, because I am not. I don't believe in closing church doors to everyone but Christians or anything.

I wasn't saying that at all. I was saying slander is there. And that issues like homosexuality and creation may be important, but they should never occupy a place of primacy. Which these days they practically do.

And I'm saying that as things are, as long as someone holds the "right" stance on the "right" issues, they can break practically every other command of Jesus and never have their faith questioned, and if we're talking about devices of Satan in the Church I think that's a pretty big one.

I DO however believe that we need to be firm in our Biblical and moral beliefs and not let the world influence our stance.

Right. My only beef here is we should be consistent, and remember what's at the center and what's not.

 

[William Nunn]

I agree with you insomuch that love of our neighbors should be at the forefront of our beliefs, but that doesn't mean being wishy-washy on other issues in the church. For example, if you have a man in the church always trying to pervert the Word and cause dissension in doctrine, then he should be reprimanded (ie - called out in front of the church). If he refuses to cease his interruption, then he shouldn't be allowed in the church anymore - but someone should take him out to lunch afterwards.

Loving someone doesn't mean coddling them and always being soft with them. Sometimes you need to be stern to show your love - if you are soft with someone and don't deal with them it often shows that you DON'T love them, because you don't care if they are spreading lies or believing in false doctrine.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

I agree with you insomuch that love of our neighbors should be at the forefront of our beliefs, but that doesn't mean being wishy-washy on other issues in the church.

Did I say it did?

For example, if you have a man in the church always trying to pervert the Word and cause dissension in doctrine, then he should be reprimanded (ie - called out in front of the church). If he refuses to cease his interruption, then he shouldn't be allowed in the church anymore - but someone should take him out to lunch afterwards.

Agreed.

Loving someone doesn't mean coddling them and always being soft with them. Sometimes you need to be stern to show your love - if you are soft with someone and don't deal with them it often shows that you DON'T love them, because you don't care if they are spreading lies or believing in false doctrine.

But see, this is my issue.... the way people automatically start talking about not being wishy washy when you make reference to Jesus' commands to love. False doctrine irks the living heck out of me, and even more the way certain teachers thereof who shall remain nameless for the purposes of this thread are unbelievably successful.

My point was, people have this tendancy to make this or that group of "hot issues" of primary importance and neglect the basics. The truth is a LOT of churches will speak MUCH more vehemently against homosexuality than unforgivness. Both are taught against in no uncertain terms in scripture, but we're willing to let one of them slide....

Personally I thin it's because we're more willing to look at other's sin than what's in our own houses, but maybe that's another rant. Point is we let our american Christian life be defined by opposing certain things rather than by emulating Christ.

 

[William Nunn]

Okay, well we're in agreement then. Man, holding a conversation without direct interaction is tough sometimes isn't it?

I was under the misconception that you were saying it's wrong for us to chastise members of our churches for spreading false doctrine. But, amen to what you said. There is a definite souring of Christian love in our churches, and it makes us look like a bunch of judgemental hypocrites - which of course doesn't help draw many people to the Word of the Lord.

 

[EliasEmmanuel]

Okay, well we're in agreement then. Man, holding a conversation without direct interaction is tough sometimes isn't it?

that it is, LOL......

I was under the misconception that you were saying it's wrong for us to chastise members of our churches for spreading false doctrine.

Actually I firmly believe they're about the only people we have any business chastising. We spend so much time and energy complaining that the World doesn't act Christian.... I'm sorry, but no kidding! It's the world! And meanwhile so much "chastising" is over petty or debatable stuff while brazen false teachers make huge amounts of money..... won't rant, sorry

But, amen to what you said. There is a definite souring of Christian love in our churches, and it makes us look like a bunch of judgemental hypocrites - which of course doesn't help draw many people to the Word of the Lord.

Precisely. You've just explained my biggest beef, LOL....