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One divine person in Jesus

Cassia26

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QUESTION FOR THEOLOGIANS

I’m not trained in theology and would appreciate responses by persons who do have qualifications. If my numbered statements are in error, I would be happy to be corrected.

My understanding of Christian doctrine:

1. God is one but triune. The three persons of the Trinity are distinct but not separate.

2. “The Father is wholly in the Son and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Son is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is wholly in the Father and wholly in the Son” (Catechism of the Catholic Church para. 255).

3. Each person is assigned a name, quality, status, role, function, or operation, and this attribution is known as ‘appropriation.’ The qualities and names thus appropriated are attached to one person but belong essentially to all the persons because God is one. The appropriations, for example, identify the Father as particularly characterized by omnipotence and the first principle of all things, the Son by wisdom and as Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit by love, inspiration, and sanctification.

4. When one person of the Trinity ‘acts’ or ‘operates’ in accordance with the assigned appropriation, the operations do not belong exclusively to the person who is the subject of appropriation. No person of the Trinity can act individually or independently. The operations thus appropriated belong essentially to all the persons. “The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons. For as the Trinity has only one and the same nature, so too does it have only one and the same operation” (CCC 258).

5.Although he is said to be a distinct person, the Son is not a discrete entity that you can detach; he comes with the Father and the Spirit, who are ‘wholly’ in him by nature and inseparable as a person.

6. Jesus of Nazareth is said to be one person with a human nature and a divine nature (the second person of the Trinity). The second person (the Word) “became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14).

7. There is also a clause somewhere in the CCC that says the Son always operates with the Spirit.

8. On the basis of the doctrine that, of the three persons of the Trinity, only the second person (the Word) became flesh and was operative in Jesus of Nazareth, I have this question:

QUESTION: How could the second person operate separately in Jesus in light of the doctrine of the inseparability of the distinct persons and that “the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons … it has only one and the same operation” (CCC 258)?
 
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Tigran1245

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3. Each person is assigned a name, quality, status, role, function, or operation, and this attribution is known as ‘appropriation.’ The qualities and names thus appropriated are attached to one person but belong essentially to all the persons because God is one. The appropriations, for example, identify the Father as particularly characterized by omnipotence and the first principle of all things, the Son by wisdom and as Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit by love, inspiration, and sanctification.
The three persons are one in nature, but have personal properties. Personal properties of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit: originlessness, birth, procession. Everything else (will, action, intellect, knowledge, power) for them relates to nature and is common. This means that the Trinity has one will, action and intelligence in the strict sense, and not like three people.
4. When one person of the Trinity ‘acts’ or ‘operates’ in accordance with the assigned appropriation, the operations do not belong exclusively to the person who is the subject of appropriation. No person of the Trinity can act individually or independently. The operations thus appropriated belong essentially to all the persons. “The whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons. For as the Trinity has only one and the same nature, so too does it have only one and the same operation” (CCC 258).
Yes, the Father always acts and wills the Son in the Holy Spirit. Because the action of the Trinity is one and all three persons act together.
QUESTION: How could the second person operate separately in Jesus in light of the doctrine of the inseparability of the distinct persons and that “the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons … it has only one and the same operation” (CCC 258)?
The action of Christ is complex. The divine actions of Christ relate to the entire Trinity. Human actions relate only to the person of the Son.
 
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Cassia26

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The three persons are one in nature, but have personal properties. Personal properties of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit: originlessness, birth, procession. Everything else (will, action, intellect, knowledge, power) for them relates to nature and is common. This means that the Trinity has one will, action and intelligence in the strict sense, and not like three people.

Yes, the Father always acts and wills the Son in the Holy Spirit. Because the action of the Trinity is one and all three persons act together.

The action of Christ is complex. The divine actions of Christ relate to the entire Trinity. Human actions relate only to the person of the Son.
Thank you for your answer. You say, "Because the action of the Trinity is one and all three persons act together." This is my point. If the three persons act together, how could the second person act alone and incarnate?
 
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Tigran1245

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Thank you for your answer. You say, "Because the action of the Trinity is one and all three persons act together." This is my point. If the three persons act together, how could the second person act alone and incarnate?
The second person is from two natures and has action out of two actions: divine action (common for Trinity) and human action (Christs only).
 
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Cassia26

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The second person is from two natures and has action out of two actions: divine action (common for Trinity) and human action (Christs only).
Thank you. Before incarnation, there was no human action. At the moment of incarnation, there was no human action. The three divine persons were acting as one to cause conception. How could only one act at this moment?
 
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Tigran1245

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Thank you. Before incarnation, there was no human action. At the moment of incarnation, there was no human action. The three divine persons were acting as one to cause conception. How could only one act at this moment?
Yes, the action of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit made the Son incarnate.
 
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Tigran1245

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Does this mean the incarnate Son acted independently in a human body? This is my problem. Jesus said, 'The Father in me is doing the works' (John 14:10-12). 'The Father and I are one,' etc.
No, the Father does not do things like a man and does not incarnate. But Divine actions belong to the entire Trinity.

God-human actions, for example, the healing of a leper, belong to Christ. Human aspect of hand movement - only to the Son, healing - to the entire Trinity.

But there is no reconciliation or independence of actions. All human actions are called divine, because we say that God Son only suffered and died.
 
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ViaCrucis

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QUESTION: How could the second person operate separately in Jesus in light of the doctrine of the inseparability of the distinct persons and that “the whole divine economy is the common work of the three divine persons … it has only one and the same operation” (CCC 258)?

Jesus is the Second Person. And Jesus didn't operate separately from the Father or the Son. For example, the Lord continually refers to the role, power, and work of His Father in and through Him.

The Son uniquely became flesh; but the Son is not and never separate from the Father and the Spirit. So while Jesus is the Son, and only the Son, the Son is not alone. Jesus is never alone, the Father and the Spirit are in, with, through Him; for there is always the eternal Perichoresis of the Trinity.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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So, do we believe One God, or THREE Gods? :oops:



Shall we interprete this statement PERSONALLY? or ESSENTIALL? or BOTH?

One God.
Three Persons.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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So, the word ‘God' in your statment refers to Godhead? or Divinity (Divine Nautre)?:)

Specifically "God" refers to what the Father is. The Father is God, and so to that end "God" refers to the Being--essence or substance--of the Father. The Son and the Holy Spirit are the same what, the same Being as the Father. Therefore since the Father is God, the Son is also God, and the Holy Spirit likewise God.

The Son is homoousios, same-Being, with the Father. The Holy Spirit is likewise homoousios with the Father and the Son.

It's not that there are Three each having a nature that is God.
It's that there are Three that are, by sameness of Being, God. E.g. The Son is God because He is of the Father's own Being. The same God as the Father, because He is of the Father's Being.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Oldfish

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Specifically "God" refers to what the Father is. The Father is God, and so to that end "God" refers to the Being--essence or substance--of the Father. The Son and the Holy Spirit are the same what, the same Being as the Father. Therefore since the Father is God, the Son is also God, and the Holy Spirit likewise God.

The Son is homoousios, same-Being, with the Father. The Holy Spirit is likewise homoousios with the Father and the Son.

It's not that there are Three each having a nature that is God.
It's that there are Three that are, by sameness of Being, God. E.g. The Son is God because He is of the Father's own Being. The same God as the Father, because He is of the Father's Being.

-CryptoLutheran

Bravo and Thanks...... :laughing:
 
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Theophilus Agapee

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The action of Christ is complex. The divine actions of Christ relate to the entire Trinity. Human actions relate only to the person of the Son.
I see that you are Oriental Orthodox. Can you, please, clarify to me how you separated the actions of Christ, given the fact that He is ONE Hypostasis and He has ONE united Nature?
 
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Theophilus Agapee

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The second person is from two natures and has action out of two actions: divine action (common for Trinity) and human action (Christs only).
The Armenian Apostolic Church believes Christ has two Natures?! That's new to me... Have you become Chalcedonians?
 
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Theophilus Agapee

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God-human actions, for example, the healing of a leper, belong to Christ. Human aspect of hand movement - only to the Son, healing - to the entire Trinity.
Is Christ's hand Divine by Nature? Or are some parts of Christ only human?
 
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Tigran1245

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I see that you are Oriental Orthodox. Can you, please, clarify to me how you separated the actions of Christ, given the fact that He is ONE Hypostasis and He has ONE united Nature?
I did not separate the actions of Christ. Any action of Christ is both Divine and human. To eat, to suffer, to walk - human action by nature and divine by union. To perform miracles - divine action by nature and human by union. If we separate actions of Christ - then God will not suffer, and man will not perform miracles.
The Armenian Apostolic Church believes Christ has two Natures?! That's new to me... Have you become Chalcedonians?
We do not believe in "two natures". We believe in "from two natures". One nature from two natures after union.
Is Christ's hand Divine by Nature? Or are some parts of Christ only human?
Christ’s hand is not divine by nature, but divine by union.
 
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