One cannot believe OSAS without believing in 5 points Calvinism

[Not David]

I am sure some might disagree with me but it is illogical that one will always remain a Christian without accepting double predestination, unlimited atonement, etc.

 

[redleghunter]

I am sure some might disagree with me but it is illogical that one will always remain a Christian without accepting double predestination, unlimited atonement, etc.

Considering not even TULIP proponents believe in double predestination.

 

[Not David]

Considering not even TULIP proponents believe in double predestination.

What do they believe then?

 

[Albion]

I am sure some might disagree with me but it is illogical that one will always remain a Christian without accepting double predestination, unlimited atonement, etc.

Why illogical??

 

[Hammster]

What do they believe then?

I don’t believe double predestination is necessary. God doesn’t need to work in the same way towards the reprobate as He does towards the elect.

 

[Not David]

Why illogical??

Why does God remove your free will when you become a Christian? Also if that's the case, then God would have had predestined you to do so.

 

[St_Worm2]

Just FYI, the third "petal" of TULIP is "Limited Atonement".

Also, the VAST majority of those who hold to OSAS are Arminian, not Calvinist 1. because there are so many more Arminians than Calvinists and 2. because Calvinism teaches the Perseverance of the Saints, not OSAS.

 

[Hammster]

I am sure some might disagree with me but it is illogical that one will always remain a Christian without accepting double predestination, unlimited atonement, etc.

And just so that we are on the same page, what’s your definition of OSAS?

 

[Not David]

I don’t believe double predestination is necessary. God doesn’t need to work in the same way towards the reprobate as He does towards the elect.

Anyways, God chooses to save some when he could save all.

 

[Not David]

Just FYI, the third "petal" of TULIP is "Limited Atonement".

Also, the VAST majority of those who hold to OSAS are Arminian, not Calvinist 1. because there are so many more Arminians than Calvinists and 2. because Calvinism teaches the Perseverance of the Saints, not OSAS.

I don't understand how can Arminians believe in OSAS when it goes against the original teaching and against all their points.

 

[Hammster]

Anyways, God chooses to save some when he could save all.

Yes. And He could have chosen to save none.

 

[Hammster]

I don't understand how can Arminians believe in OSAS when it goes against the original teaching and against all their points.

I agree with you on that.

 

[Not David]

And just so that we are on the same page, what’s your definition of OSAS?

That you remain a Christian after you become one.

 

[Hammster]

That you remain a Christian after you become one.

In what manner? Some hold to the idea that once you “said the prayer” that you can go off and live however you want. If that’s what you are referring to, that’s not Reformed Theology.

 

[Not David]

In what manner? Some hold to the idea that once you “said the prayer” that you can go off and live however you want. If that’s what you are referring to, that’s not Reformed Theology.

Well, my thread is talking about those who aren't Calvinists or don't believe in the whole Reformed theology.

 

[Hammster]

Well, my thread is talking about those who aren't Calvinists or don't believe in the whole Reformed theology.

Fair enough. Just a generalization.

 

[SeventyOne]

Why does God remove your free will when you become a Christian? Also if that's the case, then God would have had predestined you to do so.

When we are born again we are told that we are not our own, but bought with a price. At that point, free will actually becomes irrelevant to the topic because we are property of another. We can't simply choose to change ownership back to ourselves.

 

[Albion]

Why does God remove your free will when you become a Christian? Also if that's the case, then God would have had predestined you to do so.

Well, does he remove your free will when you become a Christian? That isn't what Calvinism says.

But you are speaking, I take it, only of the one possible decision which is to renounce God at some time thereafter, right? But what is so logical about wanting to retain the free will to choose hell for all eternity?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Well, my thread is talking about those who aren't Calvinists or don't believe in the whole Reformed theology.

OSAS is the Arminian interpretation of the verses usually cited by Calvinists to support their doctrine. I agree that the OSAS interpretation is patently illogical, and even dangerous. However, one can believe in it without believing in the Calvinistic doctrines, so long as one can accept the logical incongruity.

And then...the third option is just to ignore those passages of scripture, entirely, giving rise to a belief that salvation can be lost (in which case the matter of eternity makes damnation a sure inevitability).

 

[St_Worm2]

I don't understand how can Arminians believe in OSAS when it goes against the original teaching and against all their points.

I agree, OSAS does not seem to flow logically from a systematic theology that is all about free will and the choices one makes apart from God's grace. I believe that hold to OSAS do so for two reasons, 1. because it's clearly taught in the Bible and 2. because they believe that once God changes them/causes them to be born again, they cannot become UN-born again. This is actually the belief of all Christians if you think about it, that we will changed and unable to sin or to reject our salvation .. in the age to come anyway. (edit: see post #17 above as an example of this)

--David