Once saved

[Godchaser_70]

A very simple yet hugely controversial topic.Once we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Are we automatically destined for Heaven?

oh goodness yes,thats just the first step. then we are to receive the gift of speaking in tongues. read acts 1 its great

 

[Godchaser_70]

everyone is destined by God to be with Him forever, but everyone does not get to Heaven because not everyone does God's will, which summed up can be said this way: doing everything He wants and none of what He doesn't want.

I dont believe in OSAS. It's not in the Bible, so i don't know who came up with othe than the devil.

JEsus said it is very hard to get to heaven and that there are few who make it. (Mt 7, etc)

its not hard to get to heaven sweety,all he wants from you is a clean heart. and he wants you to be saved first of all. people get that confused.

john 3:16,17 states
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

 

[Jamey]

I was at one time wholly against OSAS. I believed that it was not biblical and has sent many a person to hell. My father in-law is a SBC preacher and have had many of discussions about this subject. Now tho I am still not convinced that OSAS is true, I am willing to make some concessions.
OSAS can only be true if:
We do not come to Christ on our own free will, but on the predestination of God.
We cannot be given free choice to accept Christ and then be refused that freedom to "un-chose" Him.
Though I am not saying one way or the other, I do find myself at this point in my faith to re-evaluate predestination. Its something that I am struggling with (which I don't think is a bad thing). I've been a staunch free will guy for a long time and have many questions about it.
Either OSAS is true in light of predestination or the whole thing is false. I don't think you can have one without the other.
J.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was at one time wholly against OSAS. I believed that it was not biblical and has sent many a person to hell. My father in-law is a SBC preacher and have had many of discussions about this subject. Now tho I am still not convinced that OSAS is true, I am willing to make some concessions.
OSAS can only be true if:
We do not come to Christ on our own free will, but on the predestination of God.
We cannot be given free choice to accept Christ and then be refused that freedom to "un-chose" Him.
Though I am not saying one way or the other, I do find myself at this point in my faith to re-evaluate predestination. Its something that I am struggling with (which I don't think is a bad thing). I've been a staunch free will guy for a long time and have many questions about it.
Either OSAS is true in light of predestination or the whole thing is false. I don't think you can have one without the other.
J.

I think your analysis is spot on here. When I read the Bible for the first time in my life it really came together for me. Ephesians 1 and the gospel of John are quite clear that our salvation is by God's grace alone and He keeps us. We don't cling to Him, but He holds us in His hand and none can snatch us out of that hand. Praise God it does not depend on me!

 

[Godchaser_70]

I was at one time wholly against OSAS. I believed that it was not biblical and has sent many a person to hell. My father in-law is a SBC preacher and have had many of discussions about this subject. Now tho I am still not convinced that OSAS is true, I am willing to make some concessions.
OSAS can only be true if:
We do not come to Christ on our own free will, but on the predestination of God.
We cannot be given free choice to accept Christ and then be refused that freedom to "un-chose" Him.
Though I am not saying one way or the other, I do find myself at this point in my faith to re-evaluate predestination. Its something that I am struggling with (which I don't think is a bad thing). I've been a staunch free will guy for a long time and have many questions about it.
Either OSAS is true in light of predestination or the whole thing is false. I don't think you can have one without the other.
J.

there's no such thing as once saved always saved.
hebrews 6:4-6 shows plainly that it is possible for a mature christian to lose their salvation.
4 For how can those who abandon their faith be brought back to repent again? They were once in God's light; they tasted heaven's gift and received their share of the Holy Spirit; 5 they knew from experience that God's word is good, and they had felt the powers of the coming age. 6 And then they abandoned their faith! It is impossible to bring them back to repent again, because they are again crucifying the Son of God and exposing him to public shame.

 

[Hairy Tic]

Osas is evidence of a skewed focus.

It really is an answer to questions about oneself and has the individual person as it's focus. The real answer to such questions is, "cling to the cross and don't worry about it."

## the word "automatically is troublesome - it sounds like slot-machine salvation: in goes the penny, out come the goods. It sounds so impersonal. And nothing is said about the saved community.

 

[ifightdwagons]

A very simple yet hugely controversial topic.Once we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Are we automatically destined for Heaven?

The Lord threatened those in revelations with blotting their names out of the book of Life if they did not repent and do the first works (their gospel slightly changed). Your name is not in the Book of Life if you aren't saved. So this is my example I am using.

 

[RipleyCountyChristian]

I am unsure about OSAS...it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. So many people are saved and on fire for God, but then they fall away and just get so far from God. That was me at one point too.

Also I always think of Romans 6:1-2...not sure if it actually even applies to this at all...but it seems like it does to me...

 

[Jamey]

I am with you somewhat RCC. There is scripture that supports OSAS and that denies it. Instead of doing what some christians do and have a scripture mudslinging contest, I'm just gonna follow Christ. The one thing I will say is that your fruits will bear witness to you salvation. If they do not then it doesn't really matter if you were saved and lost your salvation or if you were never saved to begin with. It doesn't matter if you were predestined or if you freely chose Christ. If your fruits do not follow your salvation then your not saved. Even Paul bawked at the idea of a christian continuing to live in sin after they have accepted Christ.
Accepted Christ.....Thats the heart of the matter here. What does that truly mean. Is it some kind of emotional period where we feel all warm and fuzzy inside? Is it some mental acknowledgment of who He is and what He did for us? Or is it us following Him no matter what, relying on Him in our deepest valleys and highest mountains? I think a person who chose the latter will have no issues with "losing" his salvation.
I had a baptist preacher tell me once "as far as OSAS goes, I have no plans on finding out"
Then I heard a Calvary Chapel preacher (who does not believe in OSAS) say "From everything I have read in the bible, Heaven will be like one continuous worship service, for eternity. If that doesn't excite you, then your probably not saved"
Somewhere in the middle is probably the truth.
I just hate how we strain at the gnats and swallow the camels. OSAS is not the issue. Its following Christ because we love Him.
J.

 

[RipleyCountyChristian]

That is very very true....the focus should be on Christ, living for Him, and leading others to Him. If we do that, we won't have to worry about other things like OSAS.

 

[Dr. Mac]

If an individual is genuinely regenerated, (born from above), then he/she will persevere to the end, having been chosen from all eternity by the Father, having his/her sins atoned for by Christ's substitutionary atonement, and having been eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

 

[Hairy Tic]

A very simple yet hugely controversial topic.Once we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Are we automatically destined for Heaven?

## Yes and no.

 

[Hairy Tic]

Hello outoftheloop,
Thank you for sharing your testamony. I think testamonies are important among professing believers. As far as the Catholic Church and your coming back to Christ, that's great and I am glad to hear of your willingness to repent (Luke 13:3) and return to Christ Jesus.
Still, I was brought-up Catholic and went to a Catholic School, baptized and confirmed and so much more. I have NOTHING BAD to say about those who attend mass and other things the Catholic Church provides. I have just come to learn so muchg more than I did when I was in Catholic School and church. I have come to learn about the many "traditions" that the Catholic Church still teach and have been for so long. I understand what the "real presence" is in the Host. But do you realize while you're listening to the priest, who is holding up the Host, that "he is asking God to make THIS (Host) BECOME FOR US the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ?" Cannabalism is outlawed in both the OLD & NEW TESTAMENT. Also, the dinking of blood is outlawed in the Old and New Tesaments. How can one deduce from Jhn 6:55 and others that Jesus wants us to "eat His flesh and drink His LITERAL Blood" from these passages when it is clearly taught otherwise concerning the eating of human flesh and blood ;
1Cr 10:18 , "They who eat . . . are partakers" (joint communicants). "Is" in both cases in this verse is literal, not represents. He who with faith partakes of the cup and the bread, partakes really but spiritually of the blood and body of Christ ( Eph 5:30, 32 ), and of the benefits of His sacrifice on the cross (compare 1Cr 10:18 ). In contrast to this is to have "fellowship with devils" ( 1Cr 10:20 ). ALFORD explains, "The cup . . . is the [joint] participation (that is, that whereby the act of participation takes place) of the blood," &c. It is the seal of our living union with, and a means of our partaking of, Christ as our Saviour ( Jhn 653-57). It is not said, "The cup . . . is the blood," or "the bread . . . is the body," but "is the communion [joint-participation] of the blood . . . body." If the bread be changed into the literal body of Christ, where is the sign of the sacrament? Romanists eat Christ "in remembrance of Himself." To drink literal blood would have been an abomination to Jews, which the first Christians were (Lev 17:11-12). Breaking the bread was part of the act of consecrating it, for thus was represented the crucifixion of Christ's body (1 Cor 11:24). The distinct specification of the bread and the wine disproves the Romish doctrine of concomitancy, and exclusion of the laity from the cup.

Cheers,
Yohonron

## You do realise that about a million people - at least - have said all that stuff ? It doesn't become any truer, or any more accurate as an account of what the Church does/says/teaches/believes, for being said 1,000,001 times.

Thank God I was not brought up a Catholic - it seems the only effect of a Catholic upbringing & Catholic education, is to cause Catholics to stop being Catholic I've lost count of the number of the anti-Catholics I've come across who write: ""I was brought-up Catholic and went to a Catholic School, baptized and confirmed and" educated as a Catholic for 12 years". And the sum total of all these immense advantages, advantages converts never had, is that they can't even give an account of Catholic teaching. It's obscene

 

[Hairy Tic]

That is very very true....the focus should be on Christ, living for Him, and leading others to Him. If we do that, we won't have to worry about other things like OSAS.

## That is one of the most sensible remarks in this thread.

 

[perrfekt]

so you believe that the eucarist is NOT the physical body, and the wine is NOT the physical blood of Jesus? because the catholic doctrine of the eucarist is that the bread becomes the physical body, and the wine becomes the physical blood. ask a priest.

 

[barryrob]

A very simple yet hugely controversial topic.Once we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Are we automatically destined for Heaven?

No the Bible makes that quite clear:-

GOOD NEWS BIBLE
Heb 10:26 For there is no longer any sacrifice that will take away sins if we purposely go on sinning after the truth has been made known to us.
Heb 10:27 Instead, all that is left is to wait in fear for the coming Judgment and the fierce fire which will destroy those who oppose God!
Heb 10:28 Anyone who disobeys the Law of Moses is put to death without any mercy when judged guilty from the evidence of two or more witnesses.
Heb 10:29 What, then, of those who despise the Son of God? who treat as a cheap thing the blood of God's covenant which purified them from sin? who insult the Spirit of grace? Just think how much worse is the punishment they will deserve!
Heb 10:30 For we know who said, "I will take revenge, I will repay"; and who also said, "The Lord will judge his people."
Heb 10:31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
Heb 10:32 Remember how it was with you in the past. In those days, after God's light had shone on you, you suffered many things, yet were not defeated by the struggle.
Heb 10:33 You were at times publicly insulted and mistreated, and at other times you were ready to join those who were being treated in this way.
Heb 10:34 You shared the sufferings of prisoners, and when all your belongings were seized, you endured your loss gladly, because you knew that you still possessed something much better, which would last forever.
Heb 10:35 Do not lose your courage, then, because it brings with it a great reward.
Heb 10:36 You need to be patient, in order to do the will of God and receive what he promises.
Heb 10:37 For, as the scripture says, "Just a little while longer, and he who is coming will come; he will not delay.
Heb 10:38 My righteous people, however, will believe and live; but if any of them turns back, I will not be pleased with them."
Heb 10:39 We are not people who turn back and are lost. Instead, we have faith and are saved.

Yes salvatiuon can be lost by being unfaithful!!

 

[bro josh]

What gets me i believe in eternal salvation, people take scriptures out of content to their denomonational belief thats wrong. Let show u what i mean u got people thats not bible read and uses that scripture in matthew. The ones that endure until the end same shall be saved. If we look in scriptures before and after in maathew 24 that is concerning the jews in tribulation. Get in the word. When get truly get saved there is change in your life if not change no salvation. take of old man behold new man comes that good holy spirit

 

[Jpark]

A very simple yet hugely controversial topic.Once we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. Are we automatically destined for Heaven?

No. Predetermination dictates our eternal fate (Acts 13:48).

However, if God should change His mind upon seeing genuine conversion and obedience following conversion (since He usually bases His decisions on what is happening rather than His foreknowledge (1 Samuel 16:7)), then yes, the person will be automatically destined to go to heaven.

However, if he should cease to repent and obey, then God can change His mind again about his future.

"Once saved always saved" doctrine neglects the importance of repentance and obedience. God grants all people repentance, and along with it, opportunity to repent and opportunity to come to genuine repentance.

He does not cease granting repentance to the saved, for even they still sin (until they are made mature by continually abiding in Him (1 John 5:18)).

So the elect, the saved, and the obedient must still repent of their sins and obey God regardless of their predetermined eternal fate.

 

[yohonron]

yes but that last psg doesn't mean that people who have once been baptized into Christ & have tasted the goodness of his grace cannot be restored to his grace. it doesn't mean the soul that has gone astray is hopeless. This is improtant because a lot of nonCatholics think this is so, i being one of them (years ago. i was never a "nonCatholic" but i wasn't catechized until several yrs ago, wasn't in the Church, etc). I was filled w/ the Holy Spirit when a teenager & for a couple yrs was madly in love with Jesus and everything was fine, but "things" happend & i fell away. for years i went through various experiences & my spirituality went gradually down-hill. Then one day i prayed the rosary & began seeing things differently. its a very long story waht all i went through but i came back to Christ, even in spite of the devil telling me i was hopeless, that i might as well stop w/ the rosary already because God didn't want me back
But because a person's soul is more "dirtied" (my word) after having been filled w/ the HS (then sinning), he has more to endure in getting back in totally right relationshiop with God. You can see a small stain on a brand new white sheet much better than you can on an old, printed one

anyway, i have found that only the Catholic Church can put this "Humpty Dumpty" of my miserable soul back together again: the power of the mass, Confession, the rosary, the Real Presence. People outside the Church don't know what they are missing. yes, there are unsavory people therein who don't much resemble Christians... but oh well. Jesus is there.

I liked your testamony! It's a refreshing change from the normal contraversal approach of talking about things. I also enjoy seeking a more intimate approach in conversation concerning my relationship with God in Jesus. Not just the "leaglistic coversations" that are usually void of REAL LOVE in the Holy Spirit.
I, for one, also have a history with the Catholic Chrurch in my upbringing. I have found MANY useful tools that I have often exercised in my daily relationship with God in Christ. I understand the Doctrine of the Real Presence in the 'Host". I also understand all the differences in the logics of the arguments. Yes! There is a difference between that which is 'spiritual' and that which is 'natural' (carnal/fleshly). The debate and differece always dependant upon which avenue one is perseveing their point from. Nevertheless, it the 'substance' of our "gaurantee" of our inheritance (Eph 1:13-14; Acts 2:38b: 2 Cor 13:5).
Thanks for sharing.

GBU,
Yohonron

 

[rexboykin]

I'm convinced that the 'doctrine' of 'once saved always saved' originated from the Father of lies. There are too many warnings about falling away, going astray, leaving the way, etc. in the Scriptures for an honest heart to easily dismiss.

This insidious teaching encourages one to trample the grace of God underfoot. Antinomian influences have been around since the first century. Religious pride on this subject has done incredible harm to the unity of the body of Christ.

God's grace TEACHES one to say NO TO UNGODLINESS and to live an 'upright life.'