Once Saved, always Saved?

[The Fire Rises]

First let me start off by introducing myself. My name is Ryan and am brand new to these forums. If someone were to ask me who I am, I would sum up my very existence with three words: "A struggling Christian." Obviously there are other aspects of my personality, life, hobbies and interests but I deem those be of a little importance compared to my faith.


Now of course, I hope to eventually eliminate that second word: "struggling". That is part of the reason I have come to these forums. But I did not come here solely to seek advice from fellow Christians, but also to help others in their walk of faith to the best of my abilities.


I would just like to say that I LOVE forums such as these and think
they're a great idea. While I strongly believe that oline forums can NEVER be an equal substitute for face-to-face interactions with other Christians (ex: fellowship groups, bible study clubs), I also believe that we can and should use these forums to help strengthen our belief, expand our knowledge and give us the confidence to join local faith groups.

But enough about me, on to the question at hand.

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Once Saved, always Saved? Another way of wording this would be:


Is it possible to lose your Salvation?


Now, I could probably type PAGES of speculation, arguments and counter-arguments about this question. But really, I want to know what you guys think on this.


I will say however, that I believe this topic to be one of paramount importance and I think it is vital that all Christians have a firm understanding of this. I cringe at the thought of Christians being led astray from the true answer to this question by various articles or opinions they read on the internet.


I can tell you that I have tried researching this topic online and the amount of different information, opinions and interpretation is staggering to try to understand on your own.


There is definitely power in numbers, it would be a waste to not combine our brain power to work through questions like these as a group.


As the Lord said in Isaiah 1:18: "Come, let us reason together."

 

[Shane Plew]

I believe that I have lost my salvation. I just quit believing in God. Do you believe that, despite my rejection of God, that I will be going to heaven anyways?

 

[dvdscott]

I honestly don't believe that the saved will lose our salvation. God and Jesus saved us from sin but we still will all sin in our lifetimes. I think that the difference in Christians is that we repent and try our best to not do it again. So I think as long as God and Jesus see that were making a real effort to make progress then we will remain saved.

 

[wcbbplyr]

No to think that one could lose their salvation ( once they are saved) is the same as saying I work to keep my salvation. My works couldn't save me. Why then do I believe they couldn't keep me saved. The blood that covers my sin covers past, present, and future sin. If you could lose it then at what point would you lose it? after murder, after a lie? when? Let's say after murder? Ok so If I did that let's say I'd lose my salvation, but if I told a lie I wouldn't. So your're telling me God sees murder worse then a lie? NO! The Bible says ever murderer and thief... will have their part in the Lake of Fire. God sees every sin as equal. He has saved us from every sin. And promises to remember ALL OF THEM NO MORE. The thoughts one has about " I did this, or I did that is simply the Devil trying to place doubt into the heart of a Christian. If God says I'll forget ALL of your sin ( and He did) then why must we fell as though we have lost our salvation because of our sin? Remember, Jesus says He's forgotten ALL OUR SIN. NEVER TO BE REMEMBERED AGAIN. HE'S FORGOTTEN YOUR SIN. DON'T LET THE DEVIL TO TRY TO YOU OTHERWISE, AND MAKE YOU FEEL AS THOUGH GOD AS LEFT.

 

[Shane Plew]

What about committing the unforgivable sin?

 

[wcbbplyr]

The Christian would not do so because the Holy Spirit lives inside.

 

[Shane Plew]

That's funny because about five years ago I took all the necessary steps to becoming a christian and whole heartedly believe the Holy Spirit was inside me. I even got baptized. Since then I've seen the errors in my faith and quit believing. I've said some pretty nasty things about God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit since then. Apparently Christians can commit the unforgivable sin.

 

[wcbbplyr]

Well I'll feed the troll only once more. TRUE believers couldn't do it because the Holy Spirit resides in them. How cam one blaspheme something they truly believe in????

 

[AfanofJesus]

First off, welcome to the forums The Fire Rises!

I'm sure you'll enjoy this place and find what you are looking for here. Actually I came here with the same reason in mind and I have to say that I agree on your opinion and idea of what purpose this forum can serve.


"Once Saved, always Saved? Another way of wording this would be:

Is it possible to lose your Salvation?"

To start with, I want you to know that English ain't my native language. I'm not sure on whether "saved" and "salvation" would have exactly the same meaning? I think in Swedish we'd translate both words into a word describing "the state of being and living" you are in after receiving salvation. In my language I think it rather describes how we receive holy spirit and have an urge to grow in our faith, an urge to become more like Jesus, to serve God.

To me that meaning seems more to be "salvation" while "saved" in my opinion is some kind of word for when you officially can be sure that you'll reach heaven. Although "salvation" as understood as desribed above would probably lead into us being saved? Saved by faith, our longing to walk with Jesus. Are we thinking in the same way, is this your definition? Am I actually wrong, or is this the common understanding?

Anyways, out of this my conclusion would be that, "no we can't loose our salvation". Salvation is to me, as I described, when we receive Holy Spirit, when we realize how great God is, how great Jesus sacrifice was, how much we need Jesus, how much Jesus loves us - when we believe in God and wants to be more Christlike simply.

I have never heard of Holy Spirit being taken away from us, and as long as we have Holy Spirit I don't really see how we would or could stop longing for God. Surely we go through periods when our faith is weaker, when we are stumbling, but we continue seeking. I know that there are people giving up their faith because of Christianity seeming supernatural and per definition, out of common sense, being false. Although I think they always have an empty room somewhere inside, a yearning for God.

I have an example out of my own life when I really were down on my knees, extremely week in my faith. I think I in general was in a bad condition, but more important, I felt that atheists had proved me wrong, there was no God, and I was extremely stupid in believing so. I talked a lot about this with a really good Christian friend of mine. After many discussions she suddenly said "take a break with God, take a week without reading the Bible, praying or anything, if you can, and see what happens, how you feel". I was terrified at that, but after having her promising me to get me back on track if I really would get lost, I did it. The first days was just as most days (at that time I hadn't really realized the importance of bible reading, praying many times a day etc.). Although as the days passed by and the weekend was closing in I felt an enormous emptiness, a lack of spirit in my life, and a great yearning. Sometimes I found myself starting praying, I did it without thinking, and to not do it, I'd really had to force myself to stop. I started to see Bible verse references on vehicle registration plates etc. When looking them up I found the most encouraging passages for my situation.

After that I was stronger in my faith than ever and went back on track with new powers. With new encouragement I started to look deeper into theology, apologetics, philosophy and found out that I don't necesarrily was a lost and stupid as I sometimes felt.

After this my friend told me that a good friend of hers, from school, had been in a similar situation and totally giving God up but in less than a week been back stronger than ever. That was why she though I could do it. Not that it's officially a good way - giving up God, but I think she sensed that I was in a temporary state and not likely giving up God totally.

With this I want to have said, that when I have tried to get rid of my faith I was thrown back into it stronger than ever, the same thing when I have had periods of serious doubts, and it's what I heard from others too. Yes, it's possible to try to suppress what Holy Spirit guides us to, it's possible to look away, but in the long run it will be hard, and it will cost you, a lot - because the whole of you wants the opposite. Out of this I don't think we can loose our salvation - but that depends on the definition of salvation. However this is the way I understand it.

I wish you the best of luck to get through your struggles.

May God be with you, may Holy Spirit guide you closer to the Father, may he open your eyes and help you to get stronger out of your doubts. May Jesus be with you as an example, may Holy Spirit guide you to become more Christ-like. Amen.

Shoot me a PM anytime you'd want if you want to chat or anything. Also feel free to add me on Skype - "AfanofJesus".

God bless you.

 

[wcbbplyr]

PM me so I can talk to you and better understand what you are saying

 

[RomanRite]

You are not OSAS, why? Because you can reject salvation.

If you break every commandment an reject Christ, you are not Saved.

Salvation comes from Gods grace alone. If you reject that grace and go astray then you will not be saved.

God Bless

 

[elizabeth451]

I believe that I have lost my salvation. I just quit believing in God. Do you believe that, despite my rejection of God, that I will be going to heaven anyways?

Im really not sure about cases such as yours, but i know for sure that nothing you ever do will stop God from loving you and wanting you back.

 

[Shane Plew]

Just to clarify, I wasn't trolling. I was being serious.
@RomanRite thanks for an actual answer but I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion...

 

[Shane Plew]

@RomanRite Does it actually say that anywhere in the Bible or did you come up with that answer in your head? I would like to see at least one passage that says that.

 

[wcbbplyr]

You are not OSAS, why? Because you can reject salvation.

If you break every commandment an reject Christ, you are not Saved.

Salvation comes from Gods grace alone. If you reject that grace and go astray then you will not be saved.

God Bless

You are saying you can "lose" salvation. That is flawed. How can you lose something you never had? Rejecting salvation is totally separate from the idea one could possibly lose their salvation. One is possible. The other not possible. Rejection of the Gospel is possible, but to lose your salvation once you have accepted Christ is not. My God's grace is sufficient to cover my sins of my past, present and future!!!!

 

[RomanRite]

You are saying you can "lose" salvation. That is flawed. How can you lose something you never had? Rejecting salvation is totally separate from the idea one could possibly lose their salvation. One is possible. The other not possible. Rejection of the Gospel is possible, but to lose your salvation once you have accepted Christ is not. By God's grace is sufficient to cover my sins of my past, present and future!!!!

I agree on that part, because I am saved, I'm being saved, and I hope to be saved. The whole Once Saved Always Saved is not Biblical and contradicts scripture. Where in the Bible does it say " accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior and you have absolute assurance you are going to heaven?"

No where does it say that, which means it contradicts scripture. You can lose salvation, if somebody got so called " saved " then chooses to break every commandment, are they still saved? Yes or no?

Matthew 19:16-22 Says otherwise about OSAS...

 

[RomanRite]

The whole idea about Once Saved Always Saved is that all you have to do is confess Jesus is Lord, but even the Demons know that, are they saved?

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul says the following about the possibility of even himself losing his salvation:
"but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

In 1 Corinthians 10:12, Paul warns us all about smug overconfidence regarding our salvation:
"Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

If "once saved, always saved" was a true biblical doctrine, then why would the Bible say just the opposite?
Paul says to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" in Philippians 2:12, which really implies that no one is truly saved until they die and are safely in God's hands.

And one important thing to remember as well- We are forbidden to judge people, from Matthew 7:1, which includes ourselves! When people say "I am saved", they are judging themselves, which is solely the job of Jesus Christ at the final judgment.

 

[The Fire Rises]

And one important thing to remember as well- We are forbidden to judge people, from Matthew 7:1, which includes ourselves! When people say "I am saved", they are judging themselves, which is solely the job of Jesus Christ at the final judgment.

Well if that's the case then virtually ALL of us are screwed. There are TONS of people who have confidently told others "Yes, I am saved in the Lord". Isnt that what the meaning of faith is? Believing God's promise to be true?

Isnt that what helps us testify to non-believers? We can look them in the eye and tell them "Jesus loves me, He loves you and He SAVED me from myself so that I may spend eternity in Paradise with Him"

Our testimonies would NOT be convincing if they went like this:

"So, what did Jesus ever do you for you?"

"Well, he saved me for one thing...I mean...at least I HOPE He did...Cause you know, I'm not actually 100% SURE...I guess we'll just have to wait and see..but HEY it's worth a shot, right?"

I'll have to go back and read that part of Mathew again, but I personally see NOTHING wrong with believing yourself to be saved. You're the first person I've heard say something like that, no offense or anything.

 

[Shane Plew]

I don't think that is what was meant in Matthew...

 

[AfanofJesus]

The whole idea about Once Saved Always Saved is that all you have to do is confess Jesus is Lord, but even the Demons know that, are they saved?

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul says the following about the possibility of even himself losing his salvation:
"but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

In 1 Corinthians 10:12, Paul warns us all about smug overconfidence regarding our salvation:
"Therefore let any one who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.

If "once saved, always saved" was a true biblical doctrine, then why would the Bible say just the opposite?
Paul says to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" in Philippians 2:12, which really implies that no one is truly saved until they die and are safely in God's hands.

And one important thing to remember as well- We are forbidden to judge people, from Matthew 7:1, which includes ourselves! When people say "I am saved", they are judging themselves, which is solely the job of Jesus Christ at the final judgment.

Matthew 19:16-22 Says otherwise about OSAS...

I don't know if you read my earlier longer post? Anyway, in Sweden where I live we don't even talk in terms of being saved or not, at least not in the same way as people seems to be doing online at CF. I'm not a big fan of it since as you say, it plants the idea "that all you have to do is confess Jesus is Lord". Although I think this confession ought to be more than saying it, I think we have to do it with the whole of our heart, there need to be a longing for Jesus in my opinion. It's said we are saved by FAITH alone - although faith is more than just saying "I believe"?

As for Paul saying "I myself should be disqualified" I think that goes for all people, I think this is what Christianity is all about. We "should be disqualified", but we are saved through our faith because God's great grace. As Jesus says in Matthew 19:16-26, part of which you quoted before:

16 Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life ?”

17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

18 “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, 19 honor your father and mother,’[a] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

20 “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

You stopped at verse 22, but the following is quite important, right? We are humans, we are sinners. I think what Jesus shows is, there's a way to work your way to heaven, although that's no possible to do for the human race. We are sinners and we can't work our way to heaven by being perfect, since we ain't. We can't save ourselves, but God can.

When receiving holy spirit, when you really want to become Christlike, when you want to become a follower of God, then the rest comes naturally. I mean you wouldn't want to be over-confident about being "saved", that's not what Jesus is like, that's not what he teaches us to be like. Although I don't think that this means that we should doubt his promises, Jesus has promised to be with us, he has promised that we can come to him through faith. Although we are not worthy of it, it's a gift, and hence we shouldn't be overly confident.

If "once saved, always saved" was a true biblical doctrine, then why would the Bible say just the opposite?
Paul says to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling" in Philippians 2:12, which really implies that no one is truly saved until they die and are safely in God's hands.

And one important thing to remember as well- We are forbidden to judge people, from Matthew 7:1, which includes ourselves! When people say "I am saved", they are judging themselves, which is solely the job of Jesus Christ at the final judgment.

I think whether OSAS is true or not according to the Bible is hard to say, at least I can't. To me it depends on how we define "saved" and I have to admit that I haven't been taught very well by any authority to know how to define it for sure. Although to me grace is something we receive, Holy spirit is something we receive and those are definitely something I'd say strengthens faith. By faith alone we can come to God, and a strong faith to me is sort of being sure of coming to God. Being saved to me is receiving grace and Holy Spirit. These factors supports each other to me. Out of receiving grace and Holy Spirit comes the urge to become more Christlike, which involves following his commands, trying to live as good as possible and everything that goes with it.


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This was very long and there might be many errors in this, I don't understand it fully myself, but this was my best try to explain how I think it is, how I understand it.