once saved always saved

[BobRyan]

Look for the Gospel in the actual Bible - that is without Grace and you have your answer.

Most of us that try that - have a hard time finding such a gospel.



In Gal 5 the "Fallen from Grace" statement is made in a context that does not assure salvation to those "without Grace".

In the same way "by Grace you have been saved through faith" in Eph 2 does not at all promise "salvation without either one" as I am sure we both agree.

That is the problem with the idea that "Fallen from grace and continuing in unbelief" is some kind of undocumented form of Gospel or salvation in the Bible.

Fallen from grace does not mean became an unbeliever... an unbeliever has never been saved... clearly the disciples were believers when they all fell away.

In James 2 - we are told that the devils "believe and tremble".

In Matt 7 Jesus rejects a group who are preaching in His name and casting out demons in his name - he does not say they are "unbelievers" as in - they deny gospel details.

The key to proving salvation without grace - in a fallen from grace - condition and without faith "you stand only by your faith - so you should fear for if He did not spare them neither will He spare you" -- is to show such a salvation in the Bible.

As we are told in Acts 17:11 "they studied the scriptures daily to see IF those things spoken to them by Paul were so".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 18:21-35 -- forgiveness revoked.

Ezekiel 18 - forgiveness revoked is salvation revoked.

Romans 11 "you should fear for you stand only by your faith - if He did not spare them neither will He spare you... He is able to graft them in again IF they do not continue in unbelief"

 

[GeorgiaGuyinAtlanta]

I'm of the Once-Saved, Always-Saved mindset. God isn't going to save you, only to let you go.

You hear of people giving up the faith, and unless it's a straight-out rejection of Jesus, then perhaps, but I'd like to hear others opinions on the subject.

Many argue that one was never truly saved if they deny the faith, perhaps for the reason that the Spirit is said to prevent one from doing such.

If one sins, it doesn't require a person to get saved time and time again to cover that sin. If you are saved, then Jesus' blood covers that sin past, present, and future.

I believe once saved always saved to be very much bibical. but yet struggle for so many people do not, now I think that we can divide on other bibical issues, but One would think that Jesus being our AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith, would certainly put our salvation in His hands to hold, rather than our hands only to slip away. but many do not see it. Just the other night, I went to hear A man, that I thought of as a great Bible scholar, only to hear Him say that He had to get saved everyday, for he knew that he sinned everyday, Had a friend of mine say that if a man lived his entire life for the Lord, but yet with His last breath, cursed. That this man would spend eternity in hell. So I was again asking God, does sin cause me to lose my salvation, and He said there was Bible proof from scriptures that sin does not cause A child of God, blood bought, borned again Child to lose their salvation. here is the proof that he showed me. Jesus instructed the disciples how to pray " Our Father who art in Heaven" and He told them the ask daily for forgiveness of their debt/sin, or trespasses/sin, so on a daily basis God knew we would still sin after we became His children. so we know we sin after we come to the saving knowledge of salvation, but yet whom do we ask forgiveness from. "OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN" HE IS STILL OUR "FATHER" the relationship is still intact, we are always saved !!!

 

[greatdivide46]

If one sins, it doesn't require a person to get saved time and time again to cover that sin. If you are saved, then Jesus' blood covers that sin past, present, and future.

This is true. That's why it's impossible to lose your salvation accidentally or unintentionally. Loss of salvation is a purposeful, intentional rejection of Jesus as the Lord of one's life after having accepted Him. I do agree with you though that the Holy Spirit could prevent one from doing that. However, that doesn't make me dismiss all the Scripture that tells us to keep the faith, to endure to the end, and like sentiments.

 

[BobRyan]

I will have to stick with the Bible on this one.

 

[FredVB]

This is true. That's why it's impossible to lose your salvation accidentally or unintentionally. Loss of salvation is a purposeful, intentional rejection of Jesus as the Lord of one's life after having accepted Him. I do agree with you though that the Holy Spirit could prevent one from doing that. However, that doesn't make me dismiss all the Scripture that tells us to keep the faith, to endure to the end, and like sentiments.

Salvation is accompanied with love for Yahweh God from his great love manifested to us. Promises which involve being predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son are to those who do love him. It does not sound at all like any choosing a purposeful, intentional rejection of Jesus as the Lord of their life are of those who love him. Promises to those who endure to the end should encourage us to live to be certain of our salvation, but it is applying to the same as those who have salvation and who love God.

We Cannot Lose Our Salvation #1

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 10 "with the heart man believes resulting in righteousness and with the mouth he confesses resulting in salvation".

There is no such thing in the NT as salvation apart from grace and apart from faith.

Romans 2:6-7 makes it clear that salvation is only for those "who persevere".

[FONT=&quot]Rom 2:6-7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6 [/FONT][FONT=&quot] who [/FONT][FONT=&quot]will render to each person according to his deeds[/FONT][FONT=&quot]:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]to those [/FONT][FONT=&quot]who by perseverance in doing good [/FONT][FONT=&quot]seek for glory and honor and immortality, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]eternal life;[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matt 10:22 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]but it is he who has endured until the end that will be saved.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Heb 3:6[/FONT][FONT=&quot] but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence
and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1Cor 15:1-2
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received,
in which also you stand,
2 by which also [/FONT][FONT=&quot]you are saved, if you hold fas[/FONT][FONT=&quot]t[/FONT][FONT=&quot] the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2Peter 1:10-11
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]8 For [/FONT][FONT=&quot]if these qualities are yours and are increasing[/FONT][FONT=&quot], they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true
knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins.
10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]as long as
you practice these things[/FONT][FONT=&quot],[/FONT][FONT=&quot] you will never stumble;
11 for [/FONT][FONT=&quot]in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom[/FONT][FONT=&quot] of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Let's take the case of the saved saint in heaven. If you wind the clock backwards - then both the 5 point Calvinist and the Arminian (who like me - rejects the OSAS tradition because it is not found in the Bible) - will agree on this one point.

Going backwards in time you will come to their conversion moment and from that point on - they will have "persevered firm until the end".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[FredVB]

Let's take the case of the saved saint in heaven. If you wind the clock backwards - then both the 5 point Calvinist and the Arminian (who like me - rejects the OSAS tradition because it is not found in the Bible) - will agree on this one point.

Going backwards in time you will come to their conversion moment and from that point on - they will have "persevered firm until the end".

Promises to those who endure to the end should encourage us to live to be certain of our salvation, but it is applying to the same as those who have salvation and who love God.

We Cannot Lose Our Salvation #1

Going backwards is a good way of seeing the same thing I am am talking about, trying to get across.

It was said "Romans 2:6-7 makes it clear that salvation is only for those "who persevere"."

I would need to clarify that what I was saying about promises to those who endure to the end is that it is to exactly the same people as those who have salvation and who love God, yes it is according to faith and it is from God's grace, these people are the same ones who endure to the end.

As far as what was said, that "OSAS" is not found in the Bible, understand what I put at the end of the last few posts from me, #1, is a link to what was posted in that previous thread that shows otherwise.

 

[Innovator]

Semi-pelagians need to embrace semi-pelagianism or else reject it rather then trying to have their cake and eat it!

Mmm... cake.

 

[IisJustMe]

I will have to stick with the Bible on this one.

Then you ought to be agreeing with us, because it teaches eternal security.

 

[FredVB]

I will have to stick with the Bible on this one.

Then you ought to be agreeing with us, because it teaches eternal security.

This is why I was responding as I had.

Going backwards is a good way of seeing the same thing I am am talking about, trying to get across.

It was said "Romans 2:6-7 makes it clear that salvation is only for those "who persevere"."

I would need to clarify that what I was saying about promises to those who endure to the end is that it is to exactly the same people as those who have salvation and who love God, yes it is according to faith and it is from God's grace, these people are the same ones who endure to the end.

As far as what was said, that "OSAS" is not found in the Bible, understand what I put at the end of the last few posts from me, #1, is a link to what was posted in that previous thread that shows otherwise.

The link is to what shows the Bible overwhelmingly speaks to security for believers who are in Christ for their salvation. It is shown verses used to speaking of salvation possibly being lost have other interpretation that should be considered, that are set with what is shown with rest of the Bible passages dealing with it. There aren't likewise other interpretations for all the passages showing salvation of Christian believers is secure and will not be lost. This comes from our salvation being all God's work, when we just respond to the grace of Yahweh God in faith, that is loving him in return and repenting from life of sin.

 

[calvaryoakville]

It refers to eternal salvation because we cannot lose our salvation. Once we accepted Christ He will not let us take away from Him anymore.

 

[FredVB]

It refers to eternal salvation because we cannot lose our salvation. Once we accepted Christ He will not let us take away from Him anymore.

Salvation is not from our efforts, it is done for us if we have it, it is of course from the grace of Yahweh God, and so certainly it is of the work of God as long as it lasts, and because it is of him, it does not come to an end.