once saved always saved

timur123456789 · Jun 24, 2012

OK, NOW I understand I can murder and steal and belive in Jesus and go to Heaven, very well then, I see how you understand it.

SO Jesus is a Liar ?????

8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

timur123456789 said:
OK, NOW I understand I can murder and steal and belive in Jesus and go to Heaven, very well then, I see how you understand it.

SO Jesus is a Liar ?????

8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Jesus did not condemn her... this is good news, considering that we all sin. Sin is breaking the law.

11 No one, sir, she said.
Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.

timur123456789 · Jun 24, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Jesus did not condemn her... this is good news, considering that we all sin. Sin is breaking the law.

11 No one, sir, she said.
Then neither do I condemn you, Jesus declared. Go now and leave your life of sin.

Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

timur123456789 said:
Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

God said do not commit adultery She and the men who were with her were well aware of the law Jesus did not write a new command when He said dont sin God has been saying that since the beginning But they did sin and Jesus did not condemn then thats good new.

timur123456789 · Jun 24, 2012

Lindas Place said:
God said do not commit adultery She and the men who were with her were well aware of the law Jesus did not write a new command when He said dont sin God has been saying that since the beginning But they did sin and Jesus did not condemn then thats good new.

That was not the answer to my QUESTION in red.

Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

timur123456789 said:
That was not the answer to my QUESTION in red.

Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

It is never right to sin... never. Sin is wrong... because it hurts others as well as ourselves... and like any good Father we don't want our children to harm themselves or others... BUT Jesus did not condemn her! nor would I condemn... would you?

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

timur123456789 said:
That was not the answer to my QUESTION in red.

Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

Was Jesus wrong for not condemning her?

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

Gotta go to bed, good night... and God bless you.

timur123456789 · Jun 24, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Was Jesus wrong for not condemning her?

1)God was not and still not condeming any one nor ever WILL He.

(CLV) Now each one is undergoing trial when he is drawn away and lured by his own desire.

(DBY) But every one is tempted, drawn away, and enticed by his own lust;

(Julia) And each is tempted from his own lust, being drawn out, and decoyed.

(KJ2000) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

(LITV) But each one is tempted by his own lusts, being drawn out and being seduced by them.

(YLT) and each one is tempted, by his own desires being led away and enticed,

2)Alas, now please answe my question

Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

WinBySurrender · Jun 24, 2012

timur123456789 said:
1)God was not and still not condeming any one nor ever WILL He ...

Really? Then what is this?

Revelation 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened ; and another book was opened, which is the book of life ; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

timur123456789 said:
... Jesus said "go, and sin no more."

Was Jesus right or wrong ?

What do you mean, "was He right or wrong?" About what? Giving the command, or making the statement "sin no more"? If the first, absolutely He was right, because the context of the statement is in that He had prevented judgment from being rendered by guilty sinful men rather than by Him. But if she did not comply, i.e., trust God for righteousness, she would be judged by Him before the Great White Throne in the end.

Either way, your post is making the wrong assertions and asking the wrong questions.

Publius · Jun 24, 2012

Lindas Place said:
It is never right to sin... never. Sin is wrong... because it hurts others as well as ourselves

So, if sin wasn't harmful, would it be OK?

Also, where does the Bible say that sin is wrong because it is harmful and how do you reconcile this with the Bible's teaching that sin is wrong because it impugns the nature and character of God?

greatdivide46 · Jun 24, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Do you think God's discipline is taking away our free will... what about Jonah?

We have free will to accept or reject Christ If we accept Christ, Jonah is a good example of a believers free will notice God did not ask Jonahs permission to discipline him God did it in spite of Jonahs free will All Gods children are disciplined whether we want it or not and to say that Gods discipline may not work, is to say God doesnt know what He doing as a Father basically its saying the Father doesnt know how to control His kids or lacks the power...

No, I do not think God's discipline is taking away our free will. You made an excellent point when you said, "We have free will to accept or reject Christ." I think that's true all the time. But proponents of OSAS teach that once a person has accepted Christ they no longer have free will to accept or reject Christ since God will force them to stay saved even if they don't want to. And the reason they say so, apparently, is because if God doesn't do that it somehow makes Him powerless.

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

Publius said:
So, if sin wasn't harmful, would it be OK?

Also, where does the Bible say that sin is wrong because it is harmful and how do you reconcile this with the Bible's teaching that sin is wrong because it impugns the nature and character of God?

no need to speculate on... if sin was not harmful... it is harmful. agree that God does not sin... nor is it His nature or character to sin... Love does no harm to its neighbor, if you harm your neighbor... that is sin...

Lindas Place · Jun 24, 2012

greatdivide46 said:
No, I do not think God's discipline is taking away our free will. You made an excellent point when you said, "We have free will to accept or reject Christ." I think that's true all the time. But proponents of OSAS teach that once a person has accepted Christ they no longer have free will to accept or reject Christ since God will force them to stay saved even if they don't want to. And the reason they say so, apparently, is because if God doesn't do that it somehow makes Him powerless.

The bible say's... Jesus died for our sins, God draws us to Him, God convicts us, God saves us, God gives us the gift of righteousness, God credits us with Christ righteousness, God gives us the gift of Grace, God gives us the gift of eternal life, God gives us the gift of His Holy Spirit, God gives us faith, God gives us endurance, God makes us stand firm in Christ, God keeps our Spirit and body blameless, God disciplines us, God creates a New Man, God gives us a new heart, God gives us a new nature, God intercedes for us when we sin, we are born again, we don't want to reject Jesus... your IF does not exist... WHY? because it is God's power that saved us and God's power that keeps us save... we didn't do it, God did.

DCJazz · Jun 25, 2012

greatdivide46 said:
No, I do not think God's discipline is taking away our free will. You made an excellent point when you said, "We have free will to accept or reject Christ." I think that's true all the time. But proponents of OSAS teach that once a person has accepted Christ they no longer have free will to accept or reject Christ since God will force them to stay saved even if they don't want to. And the reason they say so, apparently, is because if God doesn't do that it somehow makes Him powerless.

It doesn't take away my free will to be OSAS. But if we 'no longer want to be saved', one has to question if that person was ever saved in the first place (such as the first 23 years of my life).
Personally, I never want to go down that dark path again, because despite what I want to do in life, I realize that God knows better than I do.

I wouldn't want to be separated from Him even if I tried.

greatdivide46 · Jun 25, 2012

Lindas Place said:
The bible say's... Jesus died for our sins, God draws us to Him, God convicts us, God saves us, God gives us the gift of righteousness, God credits us with Christ righteousness, God gives us the gift of Grace, God gives us the gift of eternal life, God gives us the gift of His Holy Spirit, God gives us faith, God gives us endurance, God makes us stand firm in Christ, God keeps our Spirit and body blameless, God disciplines us, God creates a New Man, God gives us a new heart, God gives us a new nature, God intercedes for us when we sin, we are born again, we don't want to reject Jesus... your IF does not exist... WHY? because it is God's power that saved us and God's power that keeps us save... we didn't do it, God did.

I agree that we didn't do it, God did. But I still don't see how that forces a person to stay saved even if they decide to reject their salvation. A person's staying saved or not does not negate anything that God has done. And with all the warnings in Scripture to stay true to the faith and to not walk away from Him, I simply cannot deny the possibility, although I do think that it happens extremely rarely.

greatdivide46 · Jun 25, 2012

DCJazz said:
It doesn't take away my free will to be OSAS. But if we 'no longer want to be saved', one has to question if that person was ever saved in the first place (such as the first 23 years of my life).
Personally, I never want to go down that dark path again, because despite what I want to do in life, I realize that God knows better than I do.

I wouldn't want to be separated from Him even if I tried.

That's another thing I don't like about OSAS. They question one's salvation if one should decide to reject it. Isn't the the height of arrogance? Personally, I would never question another's salvation. After all if God did all the things listed in Lindas_Place post, who am I to question another's salvation? I guess one has to question what God does in salvation for some people only to maintain their belief in OSAS. I mean there are probably people who think they're saved but are not and no one questions their salvation. So why would one question the salvation of one who was once saved but now no longer wants to be.

However, having said all that, I have to agree with you. I wouldn't want to be separated from Him either, even if I tried.

Publius · Jun 25, 2012

Lindas Place said:
no need to speculate on... if sin was not harmful... it is harmful

OK. I don't know why I still expect people to answer such simple questions.

I'll just say this before I put you on ignore:

Sin is not sin because it's harmful. The Bible says that sin is sin because it impugns the character and nature of God.

snoblind · Jun 25, 2012

Lindas Place said:
Gotta go to bed, good night... and God bless you.

Your patience in this discussion is commendable

DCJazz · Jun 26, 2012

Publius said:
OK. I don't know why I still expect people to answer such simple questions.

I'll just say this before I put you on ignore:

Sin is not sin because it's harmful. The Bible says that sin is sin because it impugns the character and nature of God.

Sins are harmful, usually of varying degrees, but that's not why it's a sin, like you said. So I agree. The most harmful aspect of it is that it separates us from God if we aren't saved through Christ.

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