Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Well Paul does say in Galatians that he preached to them, and he says they were in Christ, so my statement is correct.
If Paul didn't see the Galatian audience as truly saved, why waste his time warning them they could "fall from grace"? (Galatians 5:4)
Read the whole passage. It's much more than just verse 4. It's referring to the Jewish people in the church who were depending on the law to save them, not to born again believers.
As for the rest of the discussion, arguing over the scriptures does no one any good, and is discouraged in scriptures, so I will not join any further. God bless!
So, you make claims about what the Bible says and then, when somebody asks you about it, Heaven forbid, to back your claims up, all of a sudden, you don't want to talk about it?
That's kind of childish, isn't it?
What verse are you referring to?
If Paul didn't see the Galatian audience as truly saved, why waste his time warning them they could "fall from grace"? (Galatians 5:4)
Read the whole passage. It's much more than just verse 4. It's referring to the Jewish people in the church who were depending on the law to save them, not to born again believers.
So, you make claims about what the Bible says and then, when somebody asks you about it, Heaven forbid, to back your claims up, all of a sudden, you don't want to talk about it?
That's kind of childish, isn't it?
Wow, why is there the need for name calling or insulting? Is that Christ-like? I don't think so, but I forgive you, because I love you as a brother in Christ. I very simply said what I thought about the subject and let it go, is that such a bad thing. To many people argue and bicker on this website trying to prove themselves "Bible Scholars" when the church (no matter what denomination you are) needs people who love Jesus and obey Him, not bicker and fuss over things.
Just to appease you in Galatians chapter 4 Paul says he was fearful for the Galatians, because he felt like he may have wasted his time with them, then just a few verses later he says that he was able to preach to them because of his physical ailments which they personally tended to. So Paul did preach to the Galatians and he did minister to them, he knew they were children of God.
The fallen from grace reference is almost common sense it would seem. In order to fall from something you have to be in it to begin with. When we are saved we enter God's grace. He extends it to all, but only those who receive it can have it. So if he is warning them that they could fall from grace, then they must have been in it. I can not fall out of an airplane unless I'm in the airplane to begin with. I can not fall out of a chair unless I'm first sitting in it. You can't fall from grace unless you are in it at some point. That verse is a direct reference to the Galatians not to the Jews in the church (which there would be no Jews in the church, because Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, thus they can not be in the church). Paul several times in that passages uses the word, "you" specifically to refer to his audience, the Galatian Christians.
That's all I'm saying about the subject, God bless!
Fall from grace does not mean lose salvation...Well Paul does say in Galatians that he preached to them, and he says they were in Christ, so my statement is correct. If Paul didn't see the Galatian audience as truly saved, why waste his time warning them they could "fall from grace"? (Galatians 5:4)
As for the rest of the discussion, arguing over the scriptures does no one any good, and is discouraged in scriptures, so I will not join any further. God bless!
onlybygrace84 said:Wow, why is there the need for name calling or insulting?
I don't think so, but I forgive you, because I love you as a brother in Christ.
I very simply said what I thought about the subject and let it go, is that such a bad thing.
Just to appease you....
in Galatians chapter 4 Paul says he was fearful for the Galatians, because he felt like he may have wasted his time with them, then just a few verses later he says that he was able to preach to them because of his physical ailments which they personally tended to. So Paul did preach to the Galatians and he did minister to them, he knew they were children of God.
When we are saved we enter God's grace. He extends it to all
So if he is warning them that they could fall from grace, then they must have been in it. I can not fall out of an airplane unless I'm in the airplane to begin with. I can not fall out of a chair unless I'm first sitting in it. You can't fall from grace unless you are in it at some point. That verse is a direct reference to the Galatians not to the Jews in the church (which there would be no Jews in the church, because Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, thus they can not be in the church).
sorry if i caused any problems...
Fall from grace does not mean lose salvation...
Romans 11 is about the Gentiles being used, for a time, to bring the gospel to the world. It does not say certain Jews lost salvation for unbelief.
No, I do not agree, because it is talking about people groups, Jews and Gentiles salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious v11... you are reading a lot into it thats not there just because the Jews were the natural branches, God chosen people, does not mean all Jews are saved, or that all Jews have been cut out and just because the Gentiles have been grafted in does not mean that all Gentiles are saved, it means what it says salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious to be saved we must be IN the TRUE vine, Jesus as stated in the book of John. Just because we are offered salvation does not mean we are automatically saved we must be In Christ.Romans 11 states that both Jews and Gentiles are already saved - are already grafted in together -- as I am sure we both agree.
[FONT="]Rom 11[/FONT]
[FONT="]13But I am speaking to [/FONT][FONT="]you who are Gentiles[/FONT][FONT="]. Inasmuch then as [/FONT][FONT="]I am an apostle of Gentiles[/FONT][FONT="], I magnify my ministry, [/FONT]
[FONT="]14if somehow I might [/FONT][FONT="]move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them[/FONT][FONT="]. [/FONT]
[FONT="]17 But if [/FONT][FONT="]some of the branches[/FONT][FONT="] were broken off,[/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11[/FONT]
[FONT="]Israel Is Not Cast Away[/FONT]
[FONT="]1I say then, God [/FONT][FONT="]has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham[/FONT][FONT="], of the tribe of Benjamin.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, [/FONT][FONT="]AND I ALONE AM LEFT[/FONT][FONT="], AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE. [/FONT]
[FONT="]4But what is the divine response to him? [/FONT][FONT="]I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN[/FONT][FONT="] THOUSAND[/FONT][FONT="] MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL. [/FONT]
[FONT="]5In the same way then, [/FONT][FONT="]there has also come to be at the present time a remnant[/FONT][FONT="] according to Gods gracious choice.[/FONT]
There is nothing at all in Romans 11 about "unbelievers grafted in without belief - without faith - not standing by faith - while other unbelievers are removed for not having faith".
In Roans 11 - all who are in that tree "stand only by their faith" and should they reject that faith they too will be removed "For if He did not spar them neither will He spare you".
As I am sure we both agree.
in Christ,
Bob
You are making it into lose salvation... Jesus didn't even hint that falling away was to be lost... in fact, here is Jesus response to ALL the disciples falling away.... I don't know why we would interject loss of salvation, if Jesus didn't...Look for the Gospel in the actual Bible - that is without Grace and you have your answer.
Most of us that try that - have a hard time finding such a gospel.
in Christ,
Bob
No, I do not agree, because it is talking about people groups, Jews and Gentiles salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious v11... you are reading a lot into it thats not there just because the Jews were the natural branches, God chosen people, does not mean all Jews are saved, or that all Jews have been cut out and just because the Gentiles have been grafted in does not mean that all Gentiles are saved, it means what it says salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious to be saved we must be IN the TRUE vine, Jesus as stated in the book of John. Just because we are offered salvation does not mean we are automatically saved we must be In Christ.
24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
Romans 11 states that both Jews and Gentiles are already saved - are already grafted in together -- as I am sure we both agree.
[FONT="]Rom 11[/FONT]
[FONT="]13But I am speaking to [/FONT][FONT="]you who are Gentiles[/FONT][FONT="]. Inasmuch then as [/FONT][FONT="]I am an apostle of Gentiles[/FONT][FONT="], I magnify my ministry, [/FONT]
[FONT="]14if somehow I might [/FONT][FONT="]move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them[/FONT][FONT="]. [/FONT]
[FONT="]17 But if [/FONT][FONT="]some of the branches[/FONT][FONT="] were broken off,[/FONT]
[FONT="]Romans 11[/FONT]
[FONT="]Israel Is Not Cast Away[/FONT]
[FONT="]1I say then, God [/FONT][FONT="]has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham[/FONT][FONT="], of the tribe of Benjamin.[/FONT]
[FONT="]2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, [/FONT][FONT="]AND I ALONE AM LEFT[/FONT][FONT="], AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE. [/FONT]
[FONT="]4But what is the divine response to him? [/FONT][FONT="]I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN[/FONT][FONT="] THOUSAND[/FONT][FONT="] MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL. [/FONT]
[FONT="]5In the same way then, [/FONT][FONT="]there has also come to be at the present time a remnant[/FONT][FONT="] according to Gods gracious choice.[/FONT]
There is nothing at all in Romans 11 about "unbelievers grafted in without belief - without faith - not standing by faith - while other unbelievers are removed for not having faith".
In Roans 11 - all who are in that tree "stand only by their faith" and should they reject that faith they too will be removed "For if He did not spar them neither will He spare you".
You are making it into lose salvation... Jesus didn't even hint that falling away was to be lost... in fact, here is Jesus response to ALL the disciples falling away.... I don't know why we would interject loss of salvation, if Jesus didn't...
"You will all fall away," Jesus told them, "for it is written: " 'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered.' But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee." Mark 14:27-28
Fallen from grace does not mean became an unbeliever... an unbeliever has never been saved... clearly the disciples were believers when they all fell away.That is the problem with the idea that "Fallen from grace and continuing in unbelief" is some kind of undocumented form of Gospel or salvation in the Bible.
in Christ,
Bob
I agree that fallen from grace does not always have to mean became an unbeliever ... but I do believe it could mean that. I wouldn't know how to determine when it does and when it doesn't, though.Fallen from grace does not mean became an unbeliever... an unbeliever has never been saved... clearly the disciples were believers when they all fell away.
That's because it is impossible. Were it possible, those who question the doctrine of eternal security would, themselves, believe they had "lost" their salvation. I note with some humor that none of them ever believe that about themselves.I agree that fallen from grace does not always have to mean became an unbeliever ... but I do believe it could mean that. I wouldn't know how to determine when it does and when it doesn't, though.
That's because it is impossible. Were it possible, those who question the doctrine of eternal security would, themselves, belive they had "lost" their salvation. I note with some humor that none of them ever believe that about themselves.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?