Once Saved Always Saved?

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Emma677

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Do all non-denominational churches accept the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved - i.e. that one can never "stray" from their salvation such as by abandoning their faith. ?

I am quite ignorant about theology and am trying to make sense of a statement of faith of a non-denominational church I recently attended.

thank you!
 

1watchman

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Any true scriptual assembly holds that salvation is eternal, because it is a new birth ("born again"). One cannot be unborn. When one is made alive unto God by the Holy Spirit, they are sealed by the Spirit as a "child of God" forever. God does not put His children out of the family; though He might discipline them for correction (see John 3:16 and 1 Jn. 5:10-13).

< staff edit >.
 
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saved24

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You are saved when you ask Jesus to forgive your sins, ask Him to be a part of your life and you want to start a new life following Him. You want to follow Jesus and you want to live for Him.

John 3:16; Romans 3:23; Romans 6:26; 1 John 1:9; Acts 16:31.

Once saved always saved is such a hard question. Sometimes I wonder if a person was really saved in the first place if they turned away from God. I also think if a person totally denies Christ and is practicing sin and does not go back and repent and turn back to the Lord, he is taking a big chance.

It doesn't sound too good for Judas: Acts 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. (KJV)
Acts 1:25 (NIV) ... to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs."
 
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washedagain

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Do all non-denominational churches accept the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved - i.e. that one can never "stray" from their salvation such as by abandoning their faith. ?

I am quite ignorant about theology and am trying to make sense of a statement of faith of a non-denominational church I recently attended.

thank you!

I have no idea what all non denoms preach on this subject....

Everyone strays... that is why we are called sheep (really [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] animals and are completely clueless) and Jesus is called the Good Shepherd.

Tell me this... would Jesus be a good shepherd if he lost even one of his sheep forever?

No... Jesus is a good shepherd that goes after those stupid animals and keeps them safe.

Have a good day.
 
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Emma677

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Thank you all - I appreciate your thoughts. I am troubled by the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved, because I have seen a lot of people fall away from their faith and it is hard for me to see Christians seemingly taking their salvation for granted (like thinking they can do whatever they want)... but I have a lot to learn.

I really appreciate the analogy of Jesus as the good Shepherd who will keep working to bring his lost sheep back into the fold. Maybe that is how I need to think of this -- once we accept Jesus, he'll keep working on our hearts.
 
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1watchman

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Emma, it is all about being "born again", not accepting Jesus or following Jesus, or any other profession. Such a claim will not last and one will "fall away" in time. Of course, one may in the beginning wonder if they really got saved (born again) when they confessed Jesus, but in time they will know the truth of it. Below is a paper I often refer people to, which shows the need to be honest and sincere before God:

"There is a danger of intellectualizing God, rather than coming personally in faith (see Heb. 11:6). Here is something one should do:

&#8220;Three things need to be appreciated to find God, be saved for eternity and enjoy His blessings (read all these verses in your Bible ---for God speaks through His Word):

1) Go into your "closet&#8221; (Mt. 6:6) --private place away from other people; show reverence and speak humbly with your Creator-God, and giving much thanks for all His mercies;
2) Confess and own you are a sinner before God as He says of all mankind (see Rom. 3:11-26); and state you want to be saved, obey, and live for Him;
3) Receive God's beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, into your heart as your Savior (read 1 Jn. 5:10-13), and give thanks honestly to the Lord Jesus for His sacrifice on the cross and suffering for you. Jesus said that no one comes to His Father, but by Him.

&#8220;If you honestly do all that in sincere communion, you can go forth happy in your soul, walking and talking with the Lord Jesus, knowing from God's promises you have done all that is required in the Bible to be saved. The Lord Jesus will then truly come and make His &#8220;abode&#8221; in you by the Holy Spirit, and you will be sealed as a child of God forever (read all of John 3 and note John 14:23; and Eph. 1:13).

&#8220;It is really simple, but many miss salvation by taking short-cuts and follow religious ways and their own ideas, and are not honest and faithful in talking to the Savior. Be sure to also read your Bible daily.

&#8220;The above thoughts show that which is involved, but actually one can simply cry to the Lord Jesus to save oneself, and if done in real faith and trust in Him, God will do the work, convince one, and come unto him/her. One will then be really glad.&#8221;
 
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Victorium

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Thank you all - I appreciate your thoughts. I am troubled by the doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved, because I have seen a lot of people fall away from their faith and it is hard for me to see Christians seemingly taking their salvation for granted (like thinking they can do whatever they want)... but I have a lot to learn.

I really appreciate the analogy of Jesus as the good Shepherd who will keep working to bring his lost sheep back into the fold. Maybe that is how I need to think of this -- once we accept Jesus, he'll keep working on our hearts.

Hi Emma,

What watchman says is true. There is a big difference between those that are "Born Again" and those that say they are.

Something I found that might help you in understanding this, click on this link: Why are there so many fake Christians?
 
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tackattack

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Perhpas if you gave us that portion of the statement of faith, we could better examine and help out. To answer your question, scripture is clear that following Christ means repentance (turning away) from our old selves and trusting in the gift of Grace from Jesus. For myself as an example, based on scripture, my salvation is assured not by my works, but the fact that Christ sacrifice is so complete, that if I respond when he calls and convicts me, I shall be covered in his blood come judgement. Not that I wouldn't ever sin, because I'm a fallible wretched sinner, just that once reproached/convicted in the Spirit, I am not able to walk away from the precious gift God has given us in His Son.
 
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Norah63

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having been on forums where they are mostly OSAS, I do understand their belief.
and it does seem like it is kind of loose. If you were REALLY saved, then you won't be lost. and if you are eventually lost, you never were saved. Pretty neat.
sin is not talked about, just what they consider cults and faith teaching and all that.

But I'm sure not dogmatic. and attack is what I got on that other forum. so I came here where there is more posting than just three or four.
 
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Emma677

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Thank you all for your responses... I appreciate the different points of view - you are giving me much to reflect on. I think I can now see both perspectives. I am still continuing to reflect upon the Christ as the Shepherd of foolish men... that is really resonating with me.

If my vocabulary isn't "standard" or there are misunderstandings based on my word choice, please understand that I was not raised in any Christian denomination and I am currently attending an Anabaptist fellowship (and they use different language).

I appreciate the caution about intellectualizing the discussion - please understand that I am not approaching my relationship with Christ in an intellectual manner -- I did not come to Christ through rationality, but through an inexplicable call. I am trying to sort through a lot of complicated feelings, thoughts, and of course, God's call to me. I do believe he will continue to guide me, but I also think he is working through this forum to help me find my way.

a little more background ... I unfortunately got involved in a (non-Christian) cult 5 years ago and I think I am now hypersensitive to doctrine being "misused" to justify immoral actions. Morality and humility are an important sign to me of holiness, of walking close to God.

I learned from being involved in a cult that I must rely on my own personal relationship with God for answers and not rely on the judgments of humans, no matter how "holy." What I am finding in my personal walk with God is that God works gently on my heart bringing me where I need to go. I guess this is why I tend to think of being reborn in Christ as a gradual process - the holy spirit is working slowly but steadily changing my heart. It hasn't been a suddenly all at once experience. I mean, yes, the decision to put my faith in Christ was a single first moment, but daily I continue to choose to put my faith in Christ. The relationship deepens and changes over time.
 
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AvgJoe

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here's my question: what makes a man saved? if your saved forever at a certain point, then at what point and condition were you saved? didn't Judas Iscariot have faith, and is HE saved?

Jesus said, "Repent, and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:15)

Romans 10:9-10(NLT) 9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.



Judas wasn't saved. Judas was an unbeliever from the beginning of his apostleship to its end. John 6:64, 68a, 69a, 70, and 71 records the words of Jesus in regards to Judas:

“But there are some of you who do NOT believe". For Jesus KNEW from the beginning who they were who did NOT believe, and who it was that would BETRAY Him...Simon Peter answered Him...’and we (apostles) have believed.’ Jesus answered them, ‘Did I Myself not choose you, the twelve, and yet one of you is a devil?’ Now He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was going to betray Him.”

The context of these verses show that Judas, in vs. 64, is clearly referred to as an unbeliever AND a betrayer. Peter, however, says all the apostles “believe” in vs. 69, but the all-knowing Jesus contradicts Peter, since Jesus knew Judas was a devil, and He says so. No devil was ever saved.
 
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saved24

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Thank you all for your responses... I appreciate the different points of view - you are giving me much to reflect on. I think I can now see both perspectives. I am still continuing to reflect upon the Christ as the Shepherd of foolish men... that is really resonating with me.

If my vocabulary isn't "standard" or there are misunderstandings based on my word choice, please understand that I was not raised in any Christian denomination and I am currently attending an Anabaptist fellowship (and they use different language).

I appreciate the caution about intellectualizing the discussion - please understand that I am not approaching my relationship with Christ in an intellectual manner -- I did not come to Christ through rationality, but through an inexplicable call. I am trying to sort through a lot of complicated feelings, thoughts, and of course, God's call to me. I do believe he will continue to guide me, but I also think he is working through this forum to help me find my way.

a little more background ... I unfortunately got involved in a (non-Christian) cult 5 years ago and I think I am now hypersensitive to doctrine being "misused" to justify immoral actions. Morality and humility are an important sign to me of holiness, of walking close to God.

I learned from being involved in a cult that I must rely on my own personal relationship with God for answers and not rely on the judgments of humans, no matter how "holy." What I am finding in my personal walk with God is that God works gently on my heart bringing me where I need to go. I guess this is why I tend to think of being reborn in Christ as a gradual process - the holy spirit is working slowly but steadily changing my heart. It hasn't been a suddenly all at once experience. I mean, yes, the decision to put my faith in Christ was a single first moment, but daily I continue to choose to put my faith in Christ. The relationship deepens and changes over time.

Enjoyed reading your response, very well put. God bless you as you grow in Him!
 
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Publius

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Do all non-denominational churches accept the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved - i.e. that one can never "stray" from their salvation such as by abandoning their faith. ?

I am quite ignorant about theology and am trying to make sense of a statement of faith of a non-denominational church I recently attended.

thank you!


Hi, Emma. Here's a post I made to another poster about the Biblical doctrine of eternal security. Remember, it was written in response to someone else, so if it sounds like I'm challenging you, I'm not. I'm asking him to examine these scriptures. Hope it helps:

Think about the consequences of rejecting the Biblical doctrine of eternal security for a moment. If we could really lose our salvation, then Hebrews 6:4-6 says that if we ever sin after being saved, we'll be lost forever with no way back, because the Lord would have to be crucified all over again to retrieve us. BTW, it only takes one sin to fall away, right? I mean, one sin before we're saved was enough to condemn us, so one sin after we're saved is enough to condemn us, right? Doesn't this make the New Covenant worse than the Old? Under the Old Covenant, the Israelites were condemned for their actions, but we'd be condemned for our thoughts.

Under the Old Covenant, under the law, the Israelites couldn't murder. We couldn't even be angry. They couldn't commit adultery. We couldn't even have a lustful thought. If you're right, then we lose our salvation by doing less in following the law than the Israelites did!

Is this really the Good News of Jesus Christ? Are these the riches of His Grace, that we have to live in fear of sinning? Are we saved by grace only to be placed under the constraints of an even more severely administered law?

And what of Romans 8:29-30, which says that God predestined those whom He foreknew to be conformed to the image of Christ. If we can lose our salvation and, thus, our conformity to the image of Christ, then does this mean that God's foreknowledge is wrong? That's open theism, which has historically been condemned as heresy by the Church.

How about Jude 24, which says that Christ is able to keep us from falling? If we can lose our salvation, does this mean that Christ is able to keep us from falling, but is merely unwilling? How is that consistent with the Biblical description of Christ?

What do you make of Colosians 3:1-4, which promises that if we have been save, we will appear with Christ in glory? It doesn't say "you might appear with Christ in glory, if you don't lose your salvation". It says "you will appear with Christ in glory". Done deal.

Philipians 1:6 promises us that if Christ has begun a good work in us, that He will finish it. How does He keep that promise if you believe you can lose your salvation?

How do you explain 1 Peter 1:23, which tells us that when we are born again, we are born of incorruptable seed? If we can lose our salvation, then this seed is corruptable and that promise is not true.

Like Colosians 3:1-4, 1 John 3:2 says that we are sons of God now and that when Christ appears, we will be like Him. There is no qualifier. There is no "...if we don't lose our salvation".

Titus 1:2 says that God has promised us eternal life and that He never breaks a promise.

In John 10:27-29, Jesus promises us that He has given us eternal life, that we will never perish, and that we are not only in His hands, but in the Father's hands. How is Jesus' promise in John 10:27-28 consistent with the idea that we can lose our salvation? Is Jesus really incompetent to keep those whom the Father has given Him?

John 5:24 says that if we are saved, we will not come into condemnation but will have eternal life? How can Jesus promise that we will not come into condemnation if He knows we can lose our salvation?

Romans 11:6 tells us that salvation is not by works. If we cannot be saved by works, then how can we lose our salvation by works?

John 14:16-17 tells us that when we are saved, the Holy Spirit indwells us forever. How can the Holy Spirit indwell in us forever if we lose our salvation? Since when does the Holy Spirit dwell in the unsaved?

Ephesians 1:13, 4:30 tells us that we are sealed unto the day of redemption. If we lose our salvation, then how can we still claim to be sealed?

1 Peter 1:4 says that our salvation is "imperishable, undefiled, and unfading". If our salvation is imperishable, how can we lose it? If our salvation is promised by God to be undefiled, how can we defile it?

I would strongly encourage you to reconsider your denial of the Biblical doctrine of eternal security and its logical and Biblical consequences.
 
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