Once saved, always saved?

[Gareth]

This idea is popular among some faiths, but is it really the case? For starters, to be saved involves what? To accept Jesus and all that entails. What he did for us (all of mankind) in coming to do his Father's will and to the point of sacrificing his life for us. Most Christians would accept this.

However, some schools of thought will suggest that once we have been `saved` we are always in this condition. Does this mean, then, that we can use our free will to do what we like, without consequences, and still retain the favour of God and His Son?

How would you answer and what are your thoughts?

 

[Celticflower]

I am saved - from my past
I am being saved - day to day as long as I continue to walk with the Lord
I will be saved - at the time of final judgement.

Once saved always saved? No, it is an ongoing process.

A lot of OSAS people seem to think that they get baptised and their ticket on the Heaven train is punched, their seat is assured and their reservations made. And it doesn't matter what they do or don't do while waiting at the station.

 

[BarryK]

here is somthing to think about "once saved..."

Ecclesiastes 3:14-15 (KJV)
14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. 15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past

 

[Rescued One]

If Christ actually saved a person, is it a temporary gift? Or is not a gift at all, but something a person must be worthy of? If a person is saved, is he following Satan or Christ? Is the person turned from darkness to light or is he still walking in darkness? If he is still walking in darkness and claims to be saved, how can we accept what he claims?

Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? (Matthew 7:16)

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 5:16)

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (Ephesians 5:8)

Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: (Colossians 1:12)

So if God has made someone a partaker, will he then make that person a follower of Satan? Or will he give that person the strength he needs to persevere in following Christ? It is a question of what God can or cannot do.

Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ: (Philippians 1:6)

 

[steve4.truth]

Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble:
11

for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


2pet 1:10,11

 

[steve4.truth]

If Christ actually saved a person, is it a temporary gift?

Heb. 6:4
For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5

and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6

and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


This speaks of someone who recieved the heavenly gift but fell away and cannot repent. Even using logic, just because someone recieves a gift doesn't mean they will cherish it forever. Do you have every Christmas gift you ever got still?

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Heb. 6:4
For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5

and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6

and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


This speaks of someone who recieved the heavenly gift but fell away and cannot repent. Even using logic, just because someone recieves a gift doesn't mean they will cherish it forever. Do you have every Christmas gift you ever got still?

Good point. How long you have the gift depends on how long you want it.

 

[St_Worm2]

GOD KEEPS HIS PEOPLE SAFE
Those He predestined, He also called; those He called,
He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
ROMANS 8:30​

It seems to me that there is ample Biblical evidence that 'true' believers will not "fall away" from their faith, at least not in a final and complete way. The Lord, who saved us and brought us to faith in Him will also sustain us in that faith.

I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. Phil 1:6

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. John 6:37-39​

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28​

​

The doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints (also known as the doctrine of Eternal Security) teaches that if you have saving faith you will never lose it, and if you lose it, you never had it! So the real question should not be, "can I lose my salvation", rather, the question should be, "did I ever really have true, saving faith in the first place". Again, the Bible does seem to support this premise:

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” 1 John 2:19

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

​

 

[Rescued One]

Heb. 6:4
For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
5

and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come,
6

and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


This speaks of someone who recieved the heavenly gift but fell away and cannot repent. Even using logic, just because someone recieves a gift doesn't mean they will cherish it forever. Do you have every Christmas gift you ever got still?

If true Christians could and would apostasize, it would be impossible to renew them again. However, true Christians persevere in the faith.

The elect cannot be deceived by Satan or man. They love Christ. They follow Christ.

Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.
2 Corinthians 2:14

The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.
Jeremiah 31:3

 

[Rescued One]

Good point. How long you have the gift depends on how long you want it.

If your heart was changed and you were delivered from the power of Satan unto God, who is going to make you follow Satan again? Who is going to make the gift distasteful?

We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 4:19

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
John 10:4-5

 

[Jakihe]

This idea is popular among some faiths, but is it really the case? For starters, to be saved involves what? To accept Jesus and all that entails. What he did for us (all of mankind) in coming to do his Father's will and to the point of sacrificing his life for us. Most Christians would accept this.

However, some schools of thought will suggest that once we have been `saved` we are always in this condition. Does this mean, then, that we can use our free will to do what we like, without consequences, and still retain the favour of God and His Son?

How would you answer and what are your thoughts?

For any who believe in OSAS:

1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.

Matthew 10:22
You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved.

Matthew 24:13
But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

Also, in John 15, Jesus is speaking of people who have accepted him.
He is clearly saying that those 'in him' that do not bear fruit, will be cast out.

We cannot have Jesus without faith and we cannot have faith without fruit. Jesus tells us to abide in him.
Abide is to withstand and to continue to stand firm.

 

[Rescued One]

GOD KEEPS HIS PEOPLE SAFE
Those He predestined, He also called; those He called,
He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified.
ROMANS 8:30​

It seems to me that there is ample Biblical evidence that 'true' believers will not "fall away" from their faith, at least not in a final and complete way. The Lord, who saved us and brought us to faith in Him will also sustain us in that faith.

I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. Phil 1:6

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. John 6:37-39​

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28​

​

The doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints (also known as the doctrine of Eternal Security) teaches that if you have saving faith you will never lose it, and if you lose it, you never had it! So the real question should not be, "can I lose my salvation", rather, the question should be, "did I ever really have true, saving faith in the first place". Again, the Bible does seem to support this premise:

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us” 1 John 2:19

Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ “And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’ Matthew 7:21-23​

​

 

[PROPHECYKID]

If your heart was changed and you were delivered from the power of Satan unto God, who is going to make you follow Satan again? Who is going to make the gift distasteful?

We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 4:19

And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
John 10:4-5

Satan. If you remember the parable of the sower and the seed there were two groups that started well. There were those who received the good word and started on the journey and then could not finish and there were those who endured to the end. The thing is that those who will not be decieved by the devil God will protect from his deception because they have a sincere love for the truth. There are some good christians who do not have a sincere love for the truth and these shall fall away. But is never right to say that someone who fell away was never even saved before as most OSAS people say.

Remember that Paul says that in the latter time many shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils. Were not these people once in the faith? Wouldn't that suggest they were saved and on their way to the kingdom. But they departed and allowed the devil to seduce them into the world. The answer to your first question is here. The devil's target is not those in the world, for he has them already. It is those in the church and he will get some to fall away, to depart from the faith. That is why the bible says that he that endures to the end will be saved since not all will endure.

 

[Jakihe]

The devil's target is not those in the world, for he has them already.


This is absolutely right and what so many people fail to understand.

It is those in the church and he will get some to fall away, to depart from the faith. That is why the bible says that he that endures to the end will be saved since not all will endure.

Blessings

Also,
1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

The devil is not an adversary to the world.
Peter was speaking to those in the faith, or the truth.

 

[gort]

This idea is popular among some faiths, but is it really the case? For starters, to be saved involves what? To accept Jesus and all that entails. What he did for us (all of mankind) in coming to do his Father's will and to the point of sacrificing his life for us. Most Christians would accept this.

However, some schools of thought will suggest that once we have been `saved` we are always in this condition. Does this mean, then, that we can use our free will to do what we like, without consequences, and still retain the favour of God and His Son?

How would you answer and what are your thoughts?

It is not possible to be a Pig when one is as the Prodigal son.

Otherwise, eternal salvation is a work of God and not a work of you. Once saved, always saved is absolutely true.

 

[Rescued One]

Satan. If you remember the parable of the sower and the seed there were two groups that started well. There were those who received the good word and started on the journey and then could not finish and there were those who endured to the end. The thing is that those who will not be decieved by the devil God will protect from his deception because they have a sincere love for the truth. There are some good christians who do not have a sincere love for the truth and these shall fall away. But is never right to say that someone who fell away was never even saved before as most OSAS people say.

If salvation is the result of a changed heart or new birth, who caused the changed heart and new birth? Will the one Who gave the new birth undo it?

Remember that Paul says that in the latter time many shall depart from the faith giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.

Paul, inspired by God, also said, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ." (Pilippians 1:6)

Were not these people once in the faith?

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." (1 John 2:19)

Wouldn't that suggest they were saved and on their way to the kingdom. But they departed and allowed the devil to seduce them into the world. The answer to your first question is here. The devil's target is not those in the world, for he has them already. It is those in the church and he will get some to fall away, to depart from the faith. That is why the bible says that he that endures to the end will be saved since not all will endure.

Those who have the new birth are the ones who endure to the end. It isn't their works that keep in them in the faith. Their faith from and in God keeps them so that what they do for God will endure.

"For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith."
(1 John 5:4)

Where does faith come from? It comes from God, the Giver of all good.

1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(Ephesians 2:1-10)

We are God's workmanship, not our own.

9For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
(1 Corinthians 15)

Were we not dead in our sins until Christ quickened us?

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
(1 Corinthians 15)

20But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15)

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; )
(Ephesians 2)

We can't take credit for what God has clearly done in our hearts.

Respectfully,

Phoebe Ann

 

[JCFantasy23]

There are too many scriptures that, to my eye, back up that OSAS isn't always true and that one can turn their backs on their faith. I have a hard time seeing how someone who has come to have a relationship with God would choose to turn their backs from the faith later on, but it's happened. You can give back gifts. I can't see being there in the end and someone is standing there pronouncing they followed God for twenty years of their life, then decided not to, but still felt they should be saved. I know the rebuttal to this is that the person must not have 'really been saved' if they can do this, but being saved is being saved, right? God makes it easy to be saved when the person seeks and asks, surely the ex-believer didn't mess it up for all those years without knowing it?

 

[Rescued One]

Blessings

Also,
1 Peter 5:8

8 Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 9 Resist him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same kinds of suffering are being experienced by your brotherhood throughout the world. 10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you. 11 To him be the dominion forever and ever. Amen.

The devil is not an adversary to the world.
Peter was speaking to those in the faith, or the truth.

The devil is our adversary. How do we overcome him?

10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.
1 Peter 5:8

That is awesome!

What happens to "them who are the called?"

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
(Romans 8)

The called have peace with God:

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(Romans 8)

God is certainly the One Who deserves all the glory! With loving kindness He has drawn us.

 

[Rescued One]

There are too many scriptures that, to my eye, back up that OSAS isn't always true and that one can turn their backs on their faith. I have a hard time seeing how someone who has come to have a relationship with God would choose to turn their backs from the faith later on, but it's happened. You can give back gifts. I can't see being there in the end and someone is standing there pronouncing they followed God for twenty years of their life, then decided not to, but still felt they should be saved. I know the rebuttal to this is that the person must not have 'really been saved' if they can do this, but being saved is being saved, right? God makes it easy to be saved when the person seeks and asks, surely the ex-believer didn't mess it up for all those years without knowing it?

I avoid the the phrase OSAS, because many people fail to realize that saying a sinner's prayer is not what saves. If there is no new birth, the person can claim to be saved, but claiming such doesn't make it true. Christ in you is the hope of glory.

Who is born again?

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
(John 3:8)

The new birth produces fruit that endures.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

People who support OSAS look at the dependability of God as their reason and do not look at the imperfection and fallibility of man. Throwing scriptures back and forth solves nothing. Every verse written in the bible is written for a reason and we must put all together. Some verses who the ultimate dependability of God while others show the weakness of man. The question is, does God will for a person override his freedom of choice? Jesus said that if any man come after him, let him deny himself, take up his cross daily and follow him. What if I decide tomorrow that I don't want to take up my cross. Does God take up my cross for me? What if I am tired carrying that cross and I look at the sinful pleasures the people in the world are having and i decide that I can't take on this Christian life anymore. Does God force his will upon me?

If you look at how things were in the beginning, Adam only knew good. The reason God put that tree in the garden and commanded them not to eat it is because he wanted them to choose to serve him and obey him. Without that tree they would serve and obey him without a choice. He knew they would choose to disobey and had a plan in place. Now how fair is it to Adam that in his plan he is going to over ride our freedom of choice with his will and with Adam he didn't do it. Adam repented and got back on track as many of us do when we fall but not everyone gets up when they fall. OSAS is a doctrine of deception and false security and covers up man's responsibility of his soul salvation. Every man must work out his own salvation with fear and trembling. This doesn't mean we can save ourselves, but we exclude ourselves from salvation. Whoever eventually is lost it is because they made that choice. Now I can get on a bus heading to New York and the bus driver has a 100% track record of no accidents and totally safe driving. All his passengers arrive safety. He is totally dependable and if I get bored on the bus he has promised to put on some nice music, give me some clean entertainment so that I enjoy the ride as best as I can. However the bus passes Las Vegas and I am seeing all these people having a blast. They seem much more happy than I am and i decide to get of the bus. If God is the bus driver he will not lock the door and tell you that you cannot get of, he just lets you know that the bus stop is always there anytime you want to get back on the bus. That is how God treats us. He will not lock the door to our choice. But we have to make a decision everyday to stay on board. If our eternal soul salvation depending on a choice we made in 10 minutes then almost everyone would be saved. Once saved is not always saved.