Once saved always saved?

[Drofrom]

I know that the baptsit church believes in this, and that some non-denominational churches do as well. I'm not sure about what other denomination believe in this as well.
The Seventh Day Adventist Church (of which I'm a member) doesn't believe in this. I can't speek for the whole church, but all the SDA members I know don't think there's proof in the Bible to show that we always will be saved. Being saved is a whole life gig not just a one time deal that you can make with God and then do things morraly and ethicaly wrong.

~~Of caurse I could be wrong. No one will know for sure untill God returns.

 

[Kriptic]

Those who would do this were not truely saved to begin with.

 

[ChristianDude777]

God's blessings to you,



Let me share some scriptures and se what the Word says:



2 Peter 2:20 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Hebrews 6 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Hebrews 10:26 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Ezekiel 18 24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Matthew 24:13

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is a topic of great debate, like so many, but the scriptures are pretty clear about it.

Tim L.

 

[Melbelle]

1 Corinthians 10:1-12 where Paul seems to be warning the Christians about falling away esp. when Paul concludes, Let him that stands take heed lest he fall.

We can fall away, but that doesn't mean we are lost. Lots of people, including myself, have fallen away then returned to the Lord. this doesn't mean I lost my salvation, I''ll share a testimony of mine with you, this is how I know forsure that just because I fallen away I'm still saved. Know one is perfect and we cannot work to get to heaven, your saying that our works get us to heaven when the word says our faith gets us there. How many times did christ die? 1 as far as the bible says. How many times have you disobeyed your parents? Did you have to be reborn inorder to stay there child? No so why would you have to do that with christ? Isn't salvation a gift? So what your saying is our God is an Indian giver. You can reject Salvation but you in these veiw verses you will see that none can snatch me out of my fathers hands.

John 10:28-29

"I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand" No one, not even myself, can snatch me from the Father's hand.

This is saying that know one can take me away from God.

Romans 3:23-27

23 since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as an expiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins; 26 it was to prove at the present time that he himself is righteous and that he justifies him who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On the principle of works? No, but on the principle of faith.

This is telling you that faith alone will get you to heaven, doing good works isn't getting you there, if you think "Oh I have to do this and make sure I live my life perfect or I want get to heaven" your wrong, If that is the case we are all going to hell, we are not perfect and our works are not worthy of Heaven where our faith is according to the word.

Romans 3:20-23
20 When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But then what return did you get from the things of which you are now ashamed? The end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is explaning that sin is death, but salvation is eternal life, if you have to repeditly get saved, then salvation isn't eternal life. This is also explaning that salvation is a free gift from God. Now why would he take our gift away from us? He isn't an indian giver.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I again we are saved by grace (God) through faith not works, this is something only God can do if you ask him, nothing we can do.

 

[gord44]

you won't be fully saved until you die....salvation is a lifelong process, not an instant event.....you will be tempted until the end of your life.....if you are saved when your 22 and you die at 75 what's the point of being tempted for those 53 years?

 

[HeatherJay]

OSAS is not part of my church's doctrine, either.

 

[oworm]

God's blessings to you,



Let me share some scriptures and se what the Word says:



2 Peter 2:20 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

Hebrews 6 4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



Hebrews 10:26 26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Ezekiel 18 24But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

Matthew 24:13

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is a topic of great debate, like so many, but the scriptures are pretty clear about it.

Tim L.

yep,they sure are. Heres some more quotes to add to the list.

" Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time"
1Pet 1:3-5


" In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory." Eph 1:11-14

" My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one." John 10:27-30

Just thought i would throw in a cat among the pigeons

 

[Melbelle]

you won't be fully saved until you die....salvation is a lifelong process, not an instant event.....you will be tempted until the end of your life.....if you are saved when your 22 and you die at 75 what's the point of being tempted for those 53 years?

Ummm I dont follow

 

[SPALATIN]

OSAS not scriptural. Want more go to other threads by this name and don't start up any new ones.

 

[Melbelle]

Huh?

 

[Soft Rains]

A better question is, "Saved from what?" One thing can never be taken away from you: Every moment in time that Christ Jesus beats back the creeping death, and you live life that is truly life. That moment of salvation is fixed in time for ever and has eternal value. God hates the smallest sin as an eternally loathsome thing, and once he saves a minute, an evening, a lifetime, the devil can NEVER take that away from God or you.

 

[ChristianMuse]

This topic has been done to death.
Oh wait, look, it stirs again.
Dr Frankenstein shouts...
It's Alive!


Oh well, since it is awake again here are my thoughts on the subject:
OSAS vs OSLA
www.christianmuse.com/waystation/a-osasosla.shtml

 

[gizmo03]

I don't have the exact Scripture refference which probably doesn't help too much, but a couple days ago when I was reading some Scriptures I came across a couple verses mentioning about after being saved you are 'rooted' in the Word, and I think this just has really helped me to give people a verse about never loosing your salvation. You may fall back and be away from the Word, but if you are 'rooted' in the Scruptures upon salvation that is always going to be there, you can never pull a plant completley out of the ground and take the roots and all.

Hopefully I can come across this verse here in my searching and give the reference and share what it exactly says word for word.

 

[gord44]

Ummm I dont follow

another way to put it is that Justification and Sanctification are not two seperate things but almost one in the same.......being saved is a lifelong thing.....like being lost in the sea.....God has thrown you a life preserver and YOU have to hold on to it....you won't be completely saved until you are pulled on board (Dying in Christ).....or drown (Death)

 

[oworm]

another way to put it is that Justification and Sanctification are not two seperate things but almost one in the same

JUSTIFICATION:



Justification comes from the realm of the legal world. To be justified is to be proven to be right or declared to be exonerated from all blame. If I find myself in the dock/at the bar, of a judge who has examined accusations made against me and it is found that I am not guilty then justice is seen to be done by declaring me justified. Justification then cannot be said to be a process but a declaration. It is a one time event in which the sinner is declared to be standing in a state of justification before God

Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, "So shall your offspring be." Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead--since he was about a hundred years old--and that Sarah's womb was also dead. Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. This is why "it was credited to him as righteousness. The words "it was credited to him" were written not for him alone, but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness--for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand……………

SANCTIFICATION:



Sanctification has a twofold meaning in scripture. To sanctify is to make holy or set apart for holy use or consecrate. It carries the meaning of being set apart for Gods use. The utensils used in the OT sacrificial system were to be set apart or sanctified for Holy use in the ritual of animal/blood sacrifices.

The believer who is declared justified is also declared righteous or right with God and in that declaration is set apart or sanctified for Holy use, so in that sense the two go together.

And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God

Sanctification is also a process of being set apart or growing in grace.

The believer who has been justified(declared right with God) and Sanctified (Set apart for Gods use) is also being sanctified or growing up into Him.

Unlike Justification, in which we can play no part! Sanctification is something in which we are co workers with God. We are called to “Be Holy” 1Cor 1:2, Heb 12:14, 1Pet 1:15-16. We cannot justify ourselves but we can sanctify ourselves!

.......being saved is a lifelong thing....

There is a sense in which this is both right and wrong. Salvation was wrought at the cross as a one off sacrifice justifying the sinner. Of course we await the full realization or culmination of that one act which reconciles the sinner to God. Scripture speaks of this as glorification, so yes there is a sense in which we are being saved by the process of sanctification as we grow and mature and become more like Him. But that doesn’t negate the fact that salvation was won at the cross for the sinner as a one time event!

.like being lost in the sea.....God has thrown you a life preserver and YOU have to hold on to it....you won't be completely saved until you are pulled on board (Dying in Christ).....or drown (Death)

I would have to disagree that the we have to “hold on”. Scripture is replete with references that it is God who does the holding. Of course that does not diminish the responsibility of the believer to persevere and walk the narrow way,but the truly born again spirit filled Christian will not want to walk in any other direction because he has the spirit of God living in him.



That person who thinks that he can make a decision, walk the aisle and sign the dotted line and then live according to the sinful nature is deluded and its very likely that the conversion is spurious! In that sense OSAS is misleading because those who preach that the Christian can live according to their sinful nature and still be saved are deluded!



However, those who are truly born again and converted will not walk according to the flesh and this will be the sign that they truly are Gods children. So in that sense OSAS is only true for those who truly are Gods own.

 

[cygnusx1]

I think you will find it is only Evangelicals who believe in the security of salvation (and some within Evangelicalism do not)


but I have yet to find one single cult / sect who believe it , for all cults and sects are by definition man centred , they "keep" their flock by telling them salvation is NOT secure ........

It is a point worth considering when studying this doctrine , does the Bible when it speaks of "Falling Away" ever , and I mean EVER ! use that word SAVED (or SALVATION) in the sentence ? NO! .......... and for good reason.

Also worth considering , most deny that Salvation can be gained by good works , (although there are some who EVEN believe this!) but there are MANY who believe salvation can be had by the WILL POWER of man !
Scripture denies BOTH!

 

[<Follower>]

My point of view is that we can indeed fall away if we openly reject after recieving the knowledge of the truth and tasting of the heavenly gift of salvation.

We cannot be snatched away by anything or anyone agaisnt our will, but we can indeed willfully turn our backs to Him.

We are assured of salvation If we perservere to the end.
I dont think it has to be that one was never saved if they reject.
That is not shown in the text and quite the contrary.

It would be absurd for me to think that rejecting God is impossible after I accept the free gift because for one, that denies that God has given me any free will to choose anything at all; and the many warnings throughout the text about falling away after knowing HIm would be mindless nonsense written for little or no reason at all.

it doesnt have to be about works if we can fall away.
It is about the state of our heart.
I can be imperfect in my works and still have a repentant heart.
I can be imperfect in my attitude and still be sorry for my sins.

Rejecting the free gift wouldnt be about what I did or didnt do, nor about how perfect my life was or wasnt.
It wouldnt be about works but it would only be about the state of my heart.

 

[<Follower>]

It is a point worth considering when studying this doctrine , does the Bible when it speaks of "Falling Away" ever , and I mean EVER ! use that word SAVED (or SALVATION) in the sentence ? NO! .......... and for good reason

Come on guy, thats not even a good enough arguement to be shakey.
It doesnt have to use a specific word to get the point across.

For if we sin willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery zeal being about to devour the adversaries.

Anyone disregarding the law of Moses dies without compassions on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

By how much worse punishment, do you think, will he be deemed worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, and has regarded as common the blood of the covenant, by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?

For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine; I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people."
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God!
(Heb 10:26-31 EMTV)

 

[Stinker]

There is nothing more horrifying than knowing you are about to die, and having the thought on your mind that you won't know 100% that you are saved until the Judgement.

Our God does not operate like that.............but man does.

It is absolutely scriptural to believe that once you are truly born-again, that you are heaven bound when you die.

The ones who give OSAS a bad rap are those who are not truly born-again, that go on living just the way they did (or worse) before they supposedly came to Christ. No change in their character (or morals) no long lasting zeal for knowledge of God's word and no zeal to obey all of God's commands for Christians.

 

[Theophorus]

The problem with the OSAS arguement is the claim that "so & so was never saved in the first place."

So there you have it in a nutshell, the irony of the position. According to the OSAS doctrine two thing are manifest:

1) Once you are saved, you can never lose that salvation.

2) No one knows who is really saved, not even the recepient of said salvation, for many have deluded themselves in the past.


So, rest easy in the assurance my friends.