Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

Michael Scaman · Mar 12, 2017

supescritter said:
Most of my beliefs about OSAS come from this massive blog that explains every single controversial verse, the other side's interpretation on those verses and the "correct" interpretation. It's huge, but every verse is there, and you can google the verse and "hischarisenough" if you just want to skip to a particular verse:
70 myths about losing salvation. Myth No: 1 Parable of the Sower Luke 8:13

If you want a nice summary, here is a very summarized video that summarizes the theme of OSAS (by the same author):

Summary:
1. The verse about "luke warm" people being spat out by Jesus in Revelations isn't referring to "zeal" because zeal is relative. If "hot" means "passion for Christ" then everyone is "luke warm" because relative to someone else, you're not hot. Furthermore the verse says that God finds "hot" or "cold" more acceptable than "luke warm" - so if hot means zeal - that means that someone who tries to be zealous ('luke warm') is less acceptable than someone who is a satanist? Doesn't make any sense.

Hot should be interpreted as those who believe in grace, and "Cold" should be interpreted as those who believe in the law. Because God finds both Hot and Cold acceptable - but not "luke warm" - ie. those who believe in grace AND the law (which implies that those who believe you are saved by grace, but can lose it by works are "luke warm").

2. "Acts of the Flesh" is not referring to sins, it is referring to trying to keep the law!! If interpreted in this way, it gives a whole new perspective on Gal 5:20. Please watch the video above to understand the interpretation in a very concise and understandable manner.

3. Verses that list sins that seem to imply that doing them will send you to hell (eg: 1 Cor 6:9) are not addressed to believers. For example, 1 Cor 6:9 is telling the Corinthians not to follow Romans who like to sue each other in court, because they do terrible sins that will send them to hell. If you read Corinthians in context, it's referring to believers who take each other to court like the Romans do.

The other verses that list sins that result in hell (eg. Revelations 21:8) are explained eloquently here: Does Major Sin Prove a Person Is Unsaved? Revelation 21:8

Another set of often quoted verses is the Sermon on the Mount, where "you can lose salvation if you sin" crowd says if you look at someone lustfully you will go to hell - but they forget the "pluck out your eye" and "chop off your hand" part - why aren't they plucking out their eye or chopping off their hand if you take "hell" literally? I think that verse is figurative - it is better to "chop your hand off than for your whole body to be burned in the cursed place where people used to sacrifice children which was called Gehenna aka Hell".

4. We know that Abraham was righteous by faith. Abraham clearly had sins that were listed elsewhere that seemed to imply you go to hell if you had them (eg Rev 21:8) - then how could Abraham who didn't know Jesus be saved? Because he was saved by grace, not by works. He didn't live a perfect life, but he believed in God. I find it hard to believe that you can lose salvation by having unrepented sins (eg lying), when Abraham was considered righteous by faith.

5. There are many verses (eg Eph 2: 8-9) which indicate that salvation is all God's doing, not ours so that no-one can boast. Believing you can lose salvation through a lack of works is functionally identical to believing you can only gain salvation through works: both allow man to pat themselves on the back and said "well God, I did this and gave this all to you, therefore I deserve heaven or deserve not to lose heaven". It treats the blood of Jesus like the blood of bulls and goats, rather than something that God alone did on the cross.

6. I believe that Genesis to Revelation is God's love story. It begins with Adam and Eve living in grace. Then they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they became under "merit" - that is knowing right from wrong, and became ashamed because they knew they did not meet God's standard any more. And then Jesus came back to restore us back to our innocence and living under grace again. When Jesus died and rose again, and we accept his gift, we are adopted children. When we are children we sin, but like our own children - they do not lose their place in the family from sin. "Once adopted, always adopted". This is the overall theme of the Bible that I believe. If we can lose salvation through sin, then my view of God's perfect plan becomes marred, because it is a "method of salvation" that would result in a very low success rate. The Bible is clear that we need Jesus because few of us can get to heaven on merit - therefore few Christians can keep salvation on merit if we can lose salvation!

The OSAS side believes there are two types of forgiveness: judicial forgiveness (salvation); and parental forgiveness (for post salvation sins) where you lose favor with God but not salvation - similar to the children analogy. If human parents can forgive the atrocious sins of their children, how much greater is God's love for those who accept Jesus as their Lord and Saviour?

7. The "strength" of the "you can lose salvation" crowd does not lie in the interpretation of Scripture (in my opinion) - it lies in these people who claim to have either died and been told by Jesus or an angel, or had a similar vision where they saw Christians in hell for their works or lack of works. While these visions are frightening, I find it hard to believe that we can be judged by visions (especially if they contradict the Word) - how can we be judged based on someone's vision? (what if we didn't watch it on youtube?). If we are earnestly seeking the true interpretation of Scripture, instead of trying to pigeon hole Scripture into our convenient belief boxes, can we be judged by God for having the wrong interpretation? This is the part I struggle with the most - if my interpretation is wrong, but I earnestly tried to follow what I believed to be the right interpretation of the Word, can I lose salvation if I sinned?

The visions are unanimous in their condemnation of most Christians. Apparently MOST Christians end up in hell in these visions. I think that if you can lose salvation through lying, or getting angry with someone ("murder"), or looking at someone lustfully, or being envious of your friend's new toy - then few Christians will end up in heaven. I find it difficult to believe that God would devise a method of salvation that is SO HARD. That's what my 6 year old son said when I was discussing this with my wife, he said "why does God make it so hard to get to heaven".

8. I personally feel that based on the arguments above that believing in a middle ground, that is: OSAS is generally true if someone is earnestly seeking after God is the truth. That is: you can lose salvation if you simply walk away; but if you try to obey God and fail, you do not lose salvation.

I am not saying I am correct, but that I want to know the truth. I have heard the OSAS side address the other side's arguments. I wouldn't mind someone who believes you can lose salvation address the OSAS' interpretation of these controversial verses. Thanks.

I prefer stating this as 'perseverance of the saints'

A person can go in one step from death to life and be sealed by the Holy Spirit for salvation
but 'he who endures to the end shall be saved' Jesus and 'without holiness no one will see the Lord' Hebrews
I think of it as those with saving faith will persevere and have desires, appetites, fruit in accordance with that
although they might stumble for times along the way. God disciplines those who are true children and corrects them actively. "you are protected by the power of God for a salvation to be revealed...' so says Peter

It isn't a doctrine meant to be overconfident about salvation despite no desire for God or hunger for truth or faith working in love. There are necessary fruits and the Colossians fruit of faith working in love goes back to the day they understood the grace of God in truth in Col 1:5,6

MJFlores · Apr 3, 2017

supescritter said:
Let me begin by saying I do not want to prove any point of view. When I want to know the true interpretation of a controversial theology, I read both sides. It upsets me when one side is clearly argumentative and trying to prove that they're right instead of considering both sides of the argument.

So I have read both sides thoroughly, and the problem is this: the side that believes "once saved always saved", I think, has the superior holistic view of all Scripture. The problem is that there are so many people convinced that believing in OSAS will result in many people going to hell, so the risk of believing OSAS is the greatest so you'd better be right. The other problem is that no matter how you feel about what God should do - it's irrelevant - whether you think something is right or not doesn't make it true. If you are confronted by God and God tells you you're wrong, you do not have the luxury of arguing with Him. Too many people believe in an interpretation based on what they feel is right.

Lastly: people need to realize that whatever you believe is just an interpretation of the Word - it doesn't mean it IS the Word, even though you quote the Bible. Both sides of the debate quote the SAME VERSES, but have different interpretations. It disappoints me when I read a website quoting all these verses as if their interpretation is correct without bothering to address the other side's interpretation of those same verses (and acting as if the other side has never seen those verses before).

I believe this is a difficult subject and therefore we must carefully and prayerfully ask God to give us the complete understanding of salvation.

So what do I want? I want a careful discussion of the controversial verses of salvation and whether you can lose it. And by careful I mean - let's not approach this with a presupposition and refuse to budge from it. Let's approach it from an attitude of seeking the truth realizing that we may be on the wrong side of it.

I think this is the most important subject in this entire site. There's no point in debating theology if we're not truly saved, therefore we should really really get this theology right.

I will begin stating my opinions in the next post. Thanks.

Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

So many lengthy explanations and the answer is lost.
I would simplify it. One verse - one answer.

For,

“In just a little while,
he who is coming will come
and will not delay.”
And,

“But my righteous one will live by faith.
And I take no pleasure
in the one who shrinks back.”
But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Once Saved Always Saved - FALSE

Phil 1:21 · Apr 4, 2017

OSAS is, to say the least, un-Biblical. I honestly look at some of these ideas and wonder which Bible people are reading from, if even at all. The whole notion of OSAS is nothing more than people rationalizing a permanent hall pass to reject Jesus and do whatever they want because they feel that at some point in life they became “saved.”

God gave us free will. With that comes the ability to love, follow him and accept his Grace…or to turn our faces from Him and go our own way. We also have the ability to change our minds as to which path we follow. To say OSAS is to say that the consequences to taking the wrong path no longer apply because we walked the right one at some point in our past.

MDC · Apr 4, 2017

JayW said:
OSAS is, to say the least, un-Biblical. I honestly look at some of these ideas and wonder which Bible people are reading from, if even at all. The whole notion of OSAS is nothing more than people rationalizing a permanent hall pass to reject Jesus and do whatever they want because they feel that at some point in life they became “saved.”

God gave us free will. With that comes the ability to love, follow him and accept his Grace…or to turn our faces from Him and go our own way. We also have the ability to change our minds as to which path we follow. To say OSAS is to say that the consequences to taking the wrong path no longer apply because we walked the right one at some point in our past.

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind things of the flesh; but they that after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. Romans 8:4-5. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God". Romans 8:14. "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16. These teachings are clear as to whom it is, that is truly saved. One who has been regenerated by the power and Spirit of God, MIND THE THINGS OF THE SPIRIT of God. This is the fruit they bear.. Obedience unto righteousness. The elect live by faith and manifest a repentant heart by Gods grace. "things that accompanies salvation".. Hebrews 6:9. Those that profess Christ and live after the flesh prove that they are not of God; and still yet dead in their sin. Those who teach one can lose his salvation is no different than the one who professes Christ but yet lives in habitual disobedience. Because they are seeking to be justified by their own works in the end. They believe that their own self righteous obedience is their assurance of eternal life. They believe, by their maintaining of good works and obedience, that this is what merits in the end, eternal life. This is works righteousness and a denial of the gospel of Christ. Those who believe they can lose their salvation do not believe Christ saves. Those that are saved rest in the finish work of Christ. The elects assurance is in Christ and His merits alone, to ultimately be justified in the end. The child of Gods confidence and refuge for forgiveness and redemption is in the mercies of Christ. The true believer knows he's secure in Christ because it is Christ who saves by the Sovereign Grace of God. It is Christ's righteousness that justifies.. this is what Gods children believe. So of course the self righteous has no security!!! Because he's resting in SELF to justify himself in the end.. and certainly doesn't believe the gospel

Phil 1:21 · Apr 5, 2017

MDC said:
"Those who teach one can lose his salvation is no different than the one who professes Christ but yet lives in habitual disobedience. Because they are seeking to be justified by their own works in the end. They believe that their own self righteous obedience is their assurance of eternal life. They believe, by their maintaining of good works and obedience, that this is what merits in the end, eternal life. This is works righteousness and a denial of the gospel of Christ. Those who believe they can lose their salvation do not believe Christ saves."

I can appreciate why you would feel that way, and perhaps it’s my fault for not being articulate enough. So please permit me to explain further.

This has nothing to do with works and everything to do with faith. God gave us free will, and with that free will comes the ability to believe in Him, not believe in Him, and to change our minds at any point along the way. Allow me to share a story of someone I know. I share this for the purpose of explanation, not condemnation.

I went to high school with a guy who played in a Satanic death metal band. One day he quit the band and gave his life over to Jesus Christ. Now obviously it’s not my place to judge the heart of my fellow man, but I assume his conversion and faith were sincere.

We both graduated, and I didn’t hear anything from or about him until many years later when he popped up on Facebook. Long story short, he’s now a very staunch atheist. He went from no faith, to devout faith, back to no faith again.

Now I ask you, do you believe that he is still saved and a child of God even though he has no faith in our Lord Jesus Christ?

MDC · Apr 5, 2017

JayW said:
I can appreciate why you would feel that way, and perhaps it’s my fault for not being articulate enough. So please permit me to explain further.

This has nothing to do with works and everything to do with faith. God gave us free will, and with that free will comes the ability to believe in Him, not believe in Him, and to change our minds at any point along the way. Allow me to share a story of someone I know. I share this for the purpose of explanation, not condemnation.

I went to high school with a guy who played in a Satanic death metal band. One day he quit the band and gave his life over to Jesus Christ. Now obviously it’s not my place to judge the heart of my fellow man, but I assume his conversion and faith were sincere.

We both graduated, and I didn’t hear anything from or about him until many years later when he popped up on Facebook. Long story short, he’s now a very staunch atheist. He went from no faith, to devout faith, back to no faith again.

Now I ask you, do you believe that he is still saved and a child of God even though he has no faith in our Lord Jesus Christ?

He was never saved to begin with. Many profess Christ but yet aren't saved. I'm sure you would agree correct? By their fruits you shall know them.. " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the children of God are MANIFEST, and the children of the devil; whosever doeth not righteousness is not of God"... 1John 3:9-10. So those who profess Christ but yet live in habitual sin and disobedience is not of God. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us; but they went out, that they might be made MANIFEST that they were not all of us." 1John 2:19. I believe your whole premise on free will is why many hold to losing ones salvation. Man is dead in his sin, and apart from regeneration, he cannot know the things of God.. much less desire and live in subjection, by faith, to Christ. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1Corinthians 2:14. The natural man is the unregenerate fleshly man. Mans volition is in bondage and steered by his sinful nature which blinds him from the truth. Unless a man be born again, he cannot see (spiritually) the kingdom of God.. So those who teach you can lose your salvation, teach works righteousness which has nothing to do with faith in Christ; but that of the works of the law, which they believe ultimately justifies oneself in the end. Gods people rest in the merits of Christ and are assured of eternal life. Christ's righteousness justifies. And if you believe this, then you cannot possibly believe your works of obedience keeps you saved.

Phil 1:21 · Apr 5, 2017

MDC said:
He was never saved to begin with. Many profess Christ but yet aren't saved. I'm sure you would agree correct?

That’s a determination for God, not me.

MDC said:
And if you believe this, then you cannot possibly believe your works of obedience keeps you saved.

Again you want to keep going back to works, even though I’ve exclusively addressed faith. The first time I assumed it was my fault for not explaining myself properly. But now it’s clear you’re just looking to interject a straw man to perpetuate an argument about in support of your own personal theology. I wish you well, I truly do, but I don’t come here to be drawn into such silliness.

MDC · Apr 5, 2017

JayW said:
That’s a determination for God, not me.

Again you want to keep going back to works, even though I’ve exclusively addressed faith. The first time I assumed it was my fault for not explaining myself properly. But now it’s clear you’re just looking to interject a straw man to perpetuate an argument about in support of your own personal theology. I wish you well, I truly do, but I don’t come here to be drawn into such silliness.

Through His Word God says so.. He was never saved. And to assume that he was, is to bring in your own humanistic theology of the autonomous will. There is no such teaching of the autonomy of the will. God is Sovereign. Salvation from start to finish, is by the power and mercy of God in Christ. The silliness is those who espouse that ones righteous obedience MAINTAININS their security in Christ. This isn't of faith, but of works which you don't understand. It's a rejection of the gospel of Christ. You aren't resting in Christ as your only assurance of being delivered and forgiven of your sins.

Imagican · Apr 10, 2017

The Bible offers numerous parables and other statements that there is NO such thing as OSAS.

And it's the perpetual argument of those that profess to believe in OSAS that those that 'turn away' were never 'saved' to begin with. Then they accuse everyone else of not BELIEVING in the Gospels if they don't BELIEVE as THEY do.

No one becomes 'saved' by DOING one thing. Our HOPE lies in Salvation. We do not wake up one day 'saved'.

We are to 'work out' our Salvation. That means that it cannot be obtained until this life in the flesh is OVER. That means that our Salvation doesn't take place, nor CAN IT, until final judgement.

So the idea of OSAS is about as ridiculous as any 'man made doctrine' could be.

If there are ANY that aren't 'saved' it's those that believe they already ARE. You cannot be 'saved' until this life is OVER.

We are to 'run the race' like we mean to win it. This 'race' isn't OVER until the flesh is DEAD. We 'run the race' every day of the rest of our lives. Our 'fleshly lives'.

Jw, you have purposely avoided mentioning 'works'. But isn't it 'works' that are referred to as 'the race' we are to run like we mean to win it?

Christ says that if you LOVE me you will FOLLOW me. And you follow me by abiding in my commandments.

So in other words, the ONLY way we can KNOW we are following the proper path is by FOLLOWING. And we FOLLOW by DOING what Christ did. He offered us THE example we are to follow.

No, we cannot follow by simply doing the things Christ did. We must allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in our daily lives. But once we receive guidance, it is up to US to either follow or NOT. And if we choose to follow, it is 'works' that show clearly where our faith lies. In order to follow Christ, we must DO the 'works' of Christ. Not for the sake of 'self righteousness', but for the sake of the example offered and the guidance we receive through the Holy Spirit.

The biggest problem I have witnessed in almost every denomination is 'man made doctrine'. Focusing on one's own ideas instead of the MAIN issue offered in the Bible.

It is ALL about love. God created us out of love so that He could 'share His love'. He created us in that very image: LOVE. The problem is that before we learned what love is, we chose disobedience and have been struggling with this issue of love ever since.

If we abide IN love, we need no laws, nor can we SIN.

It is when we aren't practicing love that we fall into sin and end up rejecting God.

Jesus came to teach us this very thing. To love God and love each other. Period.

Forgiveness is our 'first step' towards learning to practice love. And we are instructed that if we REFUSE to forgive God or each other, God will NOT forgive us. That is because forgiveness is the FIRST step in learning what love is and how to practice it. If you cannot learn to forgive, you have no conception of what love IS. If you do not KNOW what love is, you cannot practice it in truth.

MDC has clearly demonstrated that his conception of love may be utterly void of any validity. It has been demonstrated over and over that his love is for IDEAS created by MEN. That leaves little if any room to LOVE others. And this is demonstrated over and over with his offering 'false accusations' against any and everyone that does not agree with HIM. Believing that he is able to JUDGE everyone else. Not according to LOVE, but according to 'man made doctrines'.

And I am not 'judging', I am simply pointing out the 'facts'. It is not judgement to recognize the TRUTH.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Apr 10, 2017

OSAS is just a means of eliminating ANY responsibility to DO what we have been commanded to DO. It is a way to avoid DOING anything except what one WANTS to do and then allow the IDEA to justify it.

There is NO justification in believing that which does not exist. Faith in that which is 'false' is not faith. Or at best, it is 'false faith'.

Believing in that which doesn't exist is believing in a lie. Satan is the 'father of lies'. So if one believes in lies, ultimately, they are followers of Satan, not God through His Son.

No different than Eve in the garden. Her biggest blunder was following Satan instead of God. Satan introduced an 'idea' and Eve accepted it and FOLLOWED. Instead of placing her faith in God, she placed her faith in Satan.

And it is no different today when we choose to follow lies. And lies are anything other than 'the truth'.

We are instructed that in the end, the whole world is going to be following Satan instead of God. That includes the 'churches'. Man made 'churches'. They will be catering to itching ears and teaching those with itching ears to BELIEVE what they WANT to believe instead of the TRUTH.

OSAS is just ONE of those 'things' that itching ears LIKE to hear and LIKE to believe. But there is no such thing offered in the Bible. The idea itself is contradictory to any semblance of 'truth'.

It is a means of living one's life without having to ANSWER to anything. A way to brainwash oneself into believing they have ALREADY received something that is impossible to receive until final judgement. You cannot receive something that hasn't even been granted yet. The opportunity has been offered. But it cannot be determined without being able to righteously judge one's FAITH. And that faith cannot be determined until life in the flesh is OVER. For at any moment from the time one first believes, until that last breath, one CAN and often DOES 'turn away' and REJECTS the offer of Salvation.

God is NOT going to force eternal life on anyone that doesn't WANT it. What kind of an UN loving God would force someone who doesn't even like THIS life to MORE life? Make an abuser of this life live LONGER?

Those that reject this life will receive no additional life.

OSAS is nothing other than people brainwashing themselves into believing they have NO responsibility to God or their neighbors. That there is some 'magic formula' that they can find and at that point, they are no longer held to any standard. It is nothing other than 'self justification' in the most inane manner.

Blessings,

MEC

MDC · Apr 10, 2017

Imagican said:
The Bible offers numerous parables and other statements that there is NO such thing as OSAS.

And it's the perpetual argument of those that profess to believe in OSAS that those that 'turn away' were never 'saved' to begin with. Then they accuse everyone else of not BELIEVING in the Gospels if they don't BELIEVE as THEY do.

No one becomes 'saved' by DOING one thing. Our HOPE lies in Salvation. We do not wake up one day 'saved'.

We are to 'work out' our Salvation. That means that it cannot be obtained until this life in the flesh is OVER. That means that our Salvation doesn't take place, nor CAN IT, until final judgement.

So the idea of OSAS is about as ridiculous as any 'man made doctrine' could be.

If there are ANY that aren't 'saved' it's those that believe they already ARE. You cannot be 'saved' until this life is OVER.

We are to 'run the race' like we mean to win it. This 'race' isn't OVER until the flesh is DEAD. We 'run the race' every day of the rest of our lives. Our 'fleshly lives'.

Jw, you have purposely avoided mentioning 'works'. But isn't it 'works' that are referred to as 'the race' we are to run like we mean to win it?

Christ says that if you LOVE me you will FOLLOW me. And you follow me by abiding in my commandments.

So in other words, the ONLY way we can KNOW we are following the proper path is by FOLLOWING. And we FOLLOW by DOING what Christ did. He offered us THE example we are to follow.

No, we cannot follow by simply doing the things Christ did. We must allow the Holy Spirit to guide us in our daily lives. But once we receive guidance, it is up to US to either follow or NOT. And if we choose to follow, it is 'works' that show clearly where our faith lies. In order to follow Christ, we must DO the 'works' of Christ. Not for the sake of 'self righteousness', but for the sake of the example offered and the guidance we receive through the Holy Spirit.

The biggest problem I have witnessed in almost every denomination is 'man made doctrine'. Focusing on one's own ideas instead of the MAIN issue offered in the Bible.

It is ALL about love. God created us out of love so that He could 'share His love'. He created us in that very image: LOVE. The problem is that before we learned what love is, we chose disobedience and have been struggling with this issue of love ever since.

If we abide IN love, we need no laws, nor can we SIN.

It is when we aren't practicing love that we fall into sin and end up rejecting God.

Jesus came to teach us this very thing. To love God and love each other. Period.

Forgiveness is our 'first step' towards learning to practice love. And we are instructed that if we REFUSE to forgive God or each other, God will NOT forgive us. That is because forgiveness is the FIRST step in learning what love is and how to practice it. If you cannot learn to forgive, you have no conception of what love IS. If you do not KNOW what love is, you cannot practice it in truth.

MDC has clearly demonstrated that his conception of love may be utterly void of any validity. It has been demonstrated over and over that his love is for IDEAS created by MEN. That leaves little if any room to LOVE others. And this is demonstrated over and over with his offering 'false accusations' against any and everyone that does not agree with HIM. Believing that he is able to JUDGE everyone else. Not according to LOVE, but according to 'man made doctrines'.

And I am not 'judging', I am simply pointing out the 'facts'. It is not judgement to recognize the TRUTH.

Blessings,

MEC

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an Holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to His PURPOSE and GRACE, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began".. 2 Timothy 1:9. Imagican I'm sure you've managed to deceive yourself with your man centered philosophy of free will worship. But please know your hatred of the true gospel is evident. You never mention Christ and His finished works as the condition for salvation for a lost sinner, but always result to your humanistic so called love for others as your salvation. Following Christ is resting in Him for salvation PERIOD. The Bible's clear that salvation rest in Christ alone by Gods purpose and grace. You don't believe this because you believe your works of doing MERITS justification. Which is false! Self righteous religionists like yourself is diluted with man made traditions. As I said before Imagican, you do not believe the gospel. Salvation is secure in Christ to them that believe. This is Gods promise. And they shall never perish

Imagican · Apr 11, 2017

MDC said:
"Who hath saved us, and called us with an Holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS, but according to His PURPOSE and GRACE, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began".. 2 Timothy 1:9. Imagican I'm sure you've managed to deceive yourself with your man centered philosophy of free will worship. But please know your hatred of the true gospel is evident. You never mention Christ and His finished works as the condition for salvation for a lost sinner, but always result to your humanistic so called love for others as your salvation. Following Christ is resting in Him for salvation PERIOD. The Bible's clear that salvation rest in Christ alone by Gods purpose and grace. You don't believe this because you believe your works of doing MERITS justification. Which is false! Self righteous religionists like yourself is diluted with man made traditions. As I said before Imagican, you do not believe the gospel. Salvation is secure in Christ to them that believe. This is Gods promise. And they shall never perish

Hatred? Hardly. Once again, you choose to react much like every other 'church' that condemns everyone that doesn't believe what they believe as heretics. Where is the REAL hatred?

I have offered not ONE word of 'self righteousness'. We do not DO for the sake of SELF. We DO for the sake of OTHERS in sharing our love.

My hope is that ONE day, you come to the recognition of your false accusations. For that seems to be your preferred manner of communication. If someone doesn't agree with you, you just bring against them 'false accusations'.

You do know what the Bible says about 'bearing false witness', right? If you do, I am confused as to why you continually do it. How do you think God and His Son would 'feel' about you offering false accusation against one of theirs?

You continually accuse others falsely and won't even answer open and honest questions. So WHO is the 'deceiver' here?

Blessings,

MEC

DarthNeo · Apr 11, 2017

To the ORIGINAL question...

OSAS is so hard because mankind is PRIDEFUL and wants to be able to say, I was GOOD ENOUGH to keep my salvation...

Being GOOD has ZERO to do with salvation...

FAITH and BIBLICAL repentance (a change of mind) is what saves and keeps one saved...

Imagican · Apr 11, 2017

And that is the important issue: Is there NOTHING required to MAINTAIN one's faith?

in other words, can I just 'say' some 'magic words', be born again unto Salvation, and then go out and live my life like the rest of this world?

For most that I have ever KNOWN personally that insist upon OSAS don't ACT any different than the 'rest of this world'. They aren't any more humble, most don't even love as much as some of the atheists I've known. They don't GIVE more, help more, most seem quite hateful at times. And they ALL seem to insist if others DON'T believe in OSAS, they don't understand the Bible.

Yet there is nothing IN the Bible that speaks of OSAS. If you believe that there is, show it to us.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Apr 11, 2017

First, everyone DIES in the flesh. And when the DIE they 'sleep' until judgement. So how does one suppose that they can be 'saved' BEFORE judgement?

Over and over in the Bible we are instructed concerning the 'proper path'. Do you mean to tell me that I can't be on the PROPER path and then decided that I don't want to follow the proper path any longer. That I can 'change the road I'm on'?

The Bible give numerous examples where the 'dog returns to it's vomit'. And examples where someone veers from the proper path and then later RETURNS to the proper path.

But OSAS would deny these possibilities. So, show us where the Bible teaches OSAS so the rest of us can know the 'truth'.

Blessings,

MEC

Imagican · Apr 11, 2017

If you can't, then at least admit that you KNOW that it is a 'man made doctrine' that doesn't exist in the Bible.

Blessings,

MEC

DarthNeo · Apr 11, 2017

Imagican said:
And that is the important issue: Is there NOTHING required to MAINTAIN one's faith?

in other words, can I just 'say' some 'magic words', be born again unto Salvation, and then go out and live my life like the rest of this world?

For most that I have ever KNOWN personally that insist upon OSAS don't ACT any different than the 'rest of this world'. They aren't any more humble, most don't even love as much as some of the atheists I've known. They don't GIVE more, help more, most seem quite hateful at times. And they ALL seem to insist if others DON'T believe in OSAS, they don't understand the Bible.

Yet there is nothing IN the Bible that speaks of OSAS. If you believe that there is, show it to us.

Blessings,

MEC

Ephesians 4:30 "Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

Colossians 2:14 says, "[Jesus] having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross." The "certificate of debt" is a single Greek word, keirogaphon, which means a handwritten IOU of legal indebtedness. But notice that the certificate of debt is canceled on the cross, not when a person believes. This is critically important in this topic because if the sin debt (some people say it is the Mosaic law) is canceled on the cross, then the sin debt's cancelling does not depend upon the person's accepting or rejecting it and then it become cancelled; otherwise, it would not be canceled on the cross. So, if it's canceled on the cross then it's canceled by the work of God, and God will infallibly apply to the redeemed that debt cancellation - when they have faith. If it means that a person ultimately will go to hell by losing his salvation, then how has the sin debt actually been canceled at the cross?

ToBeLoved · Apr 11, 2017

JayW said:
OSAS is, to say the least, un-Biblical. I honestly look at some of these ideas and wonder which Bible people are reading from, if even at all. The whole notion of OSAS is nothing more than people rationalizing a permanent hall pass to reject Jesus and do whatever they want because they feel that at some point in life they became “saved.”

Well why don't you prove that is true?

Because many of the most Godly and obedient to Christ Christians I know believe OSAS.

So please show me what you say has ANY MERIT.

ToBeLoved · Apr 11, 2017

Imagican said:
First, everyone DIES in the flesh. And when the DIE they 'sleep' until judgement. So how does one suppose that they can be 'saved' BEFORE judgement?

Have you ever read, slowly and thought about in detail what Romans 4, 5 and 6 are saying?

There is your answer. Please go read it.

ToBeLoved · Apr 11, 2017

Imagican said:
And that is the important issue: Is there NOTHING required to MAINTAIN one's faith?

in other words, can I just 'say' some 'magic words', be born again unto Salvation, and then go out and live my life like the rest of this world?

You should lookup where faith is used in the Bible and see what it says.

Christ says that faith in Him being God and that His blood and sacrifice are sufficient to forgive mans sins permently are what is needed for salvation.

Now please show me what the 'other' criteria are that you see that shows CHRIST said one must do to be saved?

Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

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