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Matthew ch23 is all about religious hypocrites. People who do not practice what they preach. People who are careful to look pious and godly on the outside when the inside of the cup is a very different matter.Matthew 23 is at the heart of loving those who are less fortunate. It is not saying we have to do everything on that list, but it is having a heart attitude of naturally helping the poor (instead of turning our noses up at them). Do I help the poor? This is something that I prefer to keep as a treasure between me and my God (So as not to boast before men but so that the Father may reward me openly me for doing things in secret for Him).
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Who is defending sin.Following the truth means actually doing what God's Word says.
If a person says they believe the Bible and yet they do not strive to put what it says into practice, they are a hypocrite. The person who strives to obey God is not hypocrital because God realizes that it takes time to Sanctify his body of believers and make them perfect in Him. But a believer who throws up their arms in defeat in defense of sin is defending the devil's kingdom and not God's kingdom because there is no darkness in God. God is holy. God is good. God is love and He shines out the darkness.
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Matthew ch23 is all about religious hypocrites. People who do not practice what they preach. People who are careful to look pious and godly on the outside when the inside of the cup is a very different matter.
Hence:
The yeast of the Pharisees was hypocrisy
Who is defending sin.
Stuart said:So you admit you sin and believe you are saved.
Stuart said:But at the same time you attack people who believe in osas as believing a false message of being saved and committing sin.
Stuart said:Wisdom is always proved right by its inconsistencies
No Jason, I am sure everyone else knows what matt 23 is about, only you I imagine are struggling to understand.Actually, Matthew 23 is about helping the poor out of having a natural love living inside of you because Jesus lives there. One will want to help the poor and the less fortunate as a result of being in Christ. It is a normal thing for a Christian to help them.
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No Jason, I am sure everyone else knows what matt 23 is about, only you I imagine are struggling to understand.
Have to go out now, will respond to any future posts later
No offense intended, but I think proposing that "fornication" (however you define it) is "close enough" to "murder" to be considered the same thing is going off the proverbial rails of just judgment. One is the product of hatred of brother, the other isn't. One is a clear violation of "love your neighbor" and the other isn't.
The problem with "hardcore perpetual sinners" is that you're just using a phrase without context or meaning. What makes one person a "hardcore perpetual sinner" and you and I, not? We're either "sinners" or we are not "sinners": the scripture doesn't make a difference between "hardcore perpetual sinners" and "softcore perpetual sinners": in the eyes of the law, we're all law-breakers, period. The law doesn't distinguish between a "10% law-breaker" and a "40% law-breaker" it only sees "100% law-breakers"
No offense intended, but I think proposing that "fornication" (however you define it) is "close enough" to "murder" to be considered the same thing is going off the proverbial rails of just judgment. One is the product of hatred of brother, the other isn't. One is a clear violation of "love your neighbor" and the other isn't.
Yes, I am indeed saying that the saved can do "whatever they want" and the key word there being: want. To be saved you must first have love; it is love that "graduates" a person from being under the law, and, into grace. In grace, we are a "law unto ourselves" guided by love. We are no longer under the law and can no longer be accused of the law. Though we may sin in the eyes of the law, the law has no power of condemnation over us, we are free from condemnation being dead to the law.
A person that is saved doesn't want to hurt others because love doesn't want to hurt others. Grace is not an invitation to "sin it up" (Galatians 5:13) it is a removal from under the law because the saved one no longer needs the threat of wrath to make him act loving, since he is loving. Since scripture teaches love never fails (1 Corinthians 13:8) then salvation can never fail. The burden is really on the ones saying "love can fail" to demonstrate this is the case, and I'm confident it can't be done. Romans 8:35, Romans 8:38-39
We do because "love never fails" thus any failing is not "love" to begin with. Again, look at the parable of the sower. There are only three types in that parable; two were never saved, one was always saved (bearing fruits). A good tree brings forth fruits. A good salvation brings forth fruits. It never fails; if a person's faith, hope or love fail; they were never saved to begin with, else these three would remain when shaken: 1 Corinthians 13:13
You can call deception all you want, the same could be said against what you're teaching; but the ability to speak doesn't make the words spoken into truth. It's just an empty accusation; and if salvation is the unfailing power of God, you'd be falsely accusing the Holy Spirit if the doctrine were not deception. Thus, I, myself, would be very careful about accusing out-of-hand in these matters.
The sheep are them under grace, the goats them under law. This is why Jesus calls the goats "you cursed" because the only place to be cursed is "under the law": Galatians 3:10, Matthew 25:41
Just because someone "thinks" something doesn't make it true. There are three types of ground, two groups clearly receive the word and are not saved. Jesus explains why in the parable. Only one group produces fruit.
I'll give you and him the benefit of the doubt and watch a few.Try watching all of his videos.
Alan Ballou's YouTube Video Page.
Also, pray to God to work thru you.
For it is not by our own power that we can overcome sin, but it is by God's power we can do so.
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Disagree, the goats simply did not do what they should have, what the lord requires. If they were never saved to begin with, why even bother with the parable. A specific point was being made there, otherwise they are just another bunch of unsaved people there is no reason to bring up. The parable is about that point. If it was about, or had anything to do with the grace part, it would have been mentioned, that was never even touched on.
I'll give you and him the benefit of the doubt and watch a few.
So many guys say "it's only by the Spirit" and then proceed to give a list of things you must do. Hope it ain't another of those.
But in line with this, here's what I find odd in this conversation. We say "it's only by the Spirit" that we defeat sin, but then insist someone cannot be saved unless they defeat sin, but then say that you only receive the Spirit when you're saved. See the conundrum there? I've heard people say, "don't sin, as it means God will remove his Spirit from you." Yet, those same people also teach the Spirit is required to defeat sin.
Can anyone see the bait and switch here, or is it just me?
If you need the Spirit to defeat sin, then you must remain saved to do it, which would mean that sin cannot make you lose your salvation. That very salvation is required to defeat sin.
Many today( not saying you do) claim you must obey the Ten Commandments to attain to heaven. And when they mention the TC they often refer to not committing adultery, murdering, stealing etc.
Again, i am not claiming this is you. But many give the impression This is what the TC consist of, but it goes much further than that. If you look at a woman with lust in your eye you break the TC. If you have an impure thought you break the TC.
I grew up I a church that stressed holy living/ you must obey the TC.
I responded to an altar call at the tender age of ten. On the outside I could act very pious and holy. I obviously didn't drink, smoke, use foul language, steal, commit adultery, murder etc. I tithed my pocket money and went to most of the church meetings. But I could not obey the TC on the inside. I reached puberty, and my guilt got worse. In my view, how could I be a Christian, I was constantly breaking Gods good and holy laws on the inside/ breaking the TC, for i sinned in my members (rom7:14-25.)
Can I ask you your thoughts on the following?
The church had 350 members. They all heard the same sermons as me. They all believed Gods laws( especially the TC) must be obeyed, and they gave the impression they lived very holy lives. But I left the church at the age of fifteen, because being honest, I knew I could not obey the TC/ Gods laws on the inside.
Yet the core members of the church remained.
Do you imagine I was the only person in the church who had impure thoughts? If not, why do you think the others remained while I left? Do you think possibly they excused breaking the TC themselves though they believed they must be obeyed to attain heaven?
This is an important point. I'm grateful you want to discuss it.
How come, if a variety of people believe you must obey the TC if you want to attain heaven, some of these people walk away from church because they know, in humble honest estimation of themselves they cannot obey them on the inside, while others remain whilst also not being able to obey the TC on the inside.
Why do different people view Thi so differently? Do you think some don't realise they break the TC by having impure thoughts? Is That possible? The law is written on your mind if you are a christian
Do people grade the TC according to what they believe is of lesser or greater importance to keep?
Its a mystery to me. If you say you must obey the TC with the inference heaven hinges on it, you have to obey all of them, not a few of them
No offense taken, I just think your wrong...for the purpose of what we are discussing, it makes little difference what the sin is so again...close enough. We just disagree there.
Yet, in reality, they do hurt others/become perpetually disobedient, and become unsaved. You can think they are still saved if you like. On that we will also disagree
"Love never fails" yet people fail to keep loving all the time.
A good tree brings forth good fruit, and like any tree, it could fail to bring fort good fruit at any time. Since we are using a tree to make the point, we must follow through and not stop at just one possibility/cover all a fruit tree can do, and realize anything could stop the production of a fruit tree at any time. The tree is saved/produced fruit, then it started producing bad or no fruit at all...a tree can and does do that. Or are you going to tell me it never produced good fruit to begin with? (wasn't ever saved
Deception works well for me.
Disagree, the goats simply did not do what they should have, what the lord requires.
Yet they still prance off into hell because they did "think" it was true, and they thought that because that is what they were tough, and that is what they believed.
Wonderful post:I'll give you and him the benefit of the doubt and watch a few.
So many guys say "it's only by the Spirit" and then proceed to give a list of things you must do. Hope it ain't another of those.
But in line with this, here's what I find odd in this conversation. We say "it's only by the Spirit" that we defeat sin, but then insist someone cannot be saved unless they defeat sin, but then say that you only receive the Spirit when you're saved. See the conundrum there? I've heard people say, "don't sin, as it means God will remove his Spirit from you." Yet, those same people also teach the Spirit is required to defeat sin.
Can anyone see the bait and switch here, or is it just me?
If you need the Spirit to defeat sin, then you must remain saved to do it, which would mean that sin cannot make you lose your salvation. That very salvation is required to defeat sin.
I left the church at the age of fifteen, I had to right? I couldn't obey the ten commandments. All manner of concupiscence had been aroused in me. I was a slave to masturbation so was continually breaking the TC.I completely missed that post...sorry.
Did these people not teach forgiveness when the 10 were not obeyed? Did they not teach we can always be forgiven, and we just have to keep trying? Are you saying you could have never reached the goal you feel you needed too? I doubt anyone reaches it 100% in even a lifetime. Heaven doesn't hinge on being perfect. We need to try to obey, but no one should have told you or even inferred if you don't, your doomed. I think sometimes adults assume too much and may not have made things clear enough to you or other young people at the time?
FWIW, I still get those thoughts, but not even close to what I used too, and I'm still battling it. You were a kid then, and that's when they are the worse. I understand perfectly the action you took and why, but we need to give ourselves the time, and if nothing else, tell ourselves we'll never give up trying. That type attitude will generally bring on at least better results, but as a kid, you likely didn't know all you should have been told by your church.
I could say that's your fault because it's all in the bible, but younger people go to church so they can understand the bible better. All I can say is chalk your past situation up to part of the learning experience where sometimes thing go well and sometimes they do not, but we usually get things figured out if we are truly wanting too.
IF anyone is teaching "perfect obedience or else" they don't believe as I do. I seem to recall some confusion back then too, so maybe it's just a matter of the adults weren't doing their job, or something else that I'm missing.
And may Gods love and truth shine on you alsoIn any event, Stuart, may God's love shine upon you.
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It isn't hard to do faulty exegesisAlso, I have explained every verse you have put forth within this thread.
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Most of the time he is quoting what Scripture says.
I hope God's Spirit talks to your heart on the verses he brings up.
May God bless you richly in all spiritual things this fine day.
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