Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Do you commit sin?
Do you believe you are saved?

Do you commit sin and think you are saved while doing so?
What kind of sin do you think you can commit and still be saved?
Can you murder people and be saved?
Can you indulge in porn and still be saved?
Can you beat children and be saved?
Where is the line drawn?
Well, good thing the Bible tells us.

For not all sin is the same. There are sins unto death and sins not unto death (See 1 John 5:16-18). Sins unto death are any kinds of sins that lead to the Second Death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). Such sins would be murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, and coveting, etc. (See Revelation 21:8 and Galatians 5:19-21). Sins not unto death would be sins like: Not being baptized in this life (1 Peter 3:21), causing divisions within the body of Christ or boasting within each other (1 Corinthians 3:1-15), and hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12).

For were we not saved as a baby?
What led us to become unsaved?
Sin (of course).
Only repentance restored you back to God.
The same holds true while one is a believer, as well.

In other words, the parable of the Prodigal Son is two fold in meaning. It has a meaning for the Jews, but it's primary message (that is for the world) is that it is a picture of our entire life. We were saved as a baby, but then went prodigal. We then can return home to the Father thru repentance.

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Kenny'sID · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I would be grateful if you would respond to my previous post to The one you are replying to here. You did say if I wanted to discuss the subject you would.
I spent time writing a lengthy post to you in response to your offer. We can then progress to the post you are responding to here if you like

What number post is that, I must have missed it....wasn't intentional.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I dont listen to third parties opinions, I prefer to simply debate one on one

So are you saying that you have not listened to any Christian pastors at YouTube or online? He only speaks the Word of God. So you have nothng to fear.

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stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Do you commit sin and think you are saved while doing so?
What kind of sin do you think you can commit and still be saved?
Can you murder people and be saved?
Can you indulge in porn and still be saved?
Can you beat children and be saved?
Where is the line drawn?
Well, good thing the Bible tells us.

For not all sin is the same. There are sins unto death and sins not unto death (See 1 John 5:16-18). Sins unto death are any kinds of sins that lead to the Second Death (i.e. the Lake of Fire). Such sins would be murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, and coveting, etc. (See Revelation 21:8 and Galatians 5:19-21). Sins not unto death would be sins like: Not being baptized in this life (1 Peter 3:21), causing divisions within the body of Christ or boasting within each other (1 Corinthians 3:1-15), and hidden or secret faults (Psalms 19:12).

For were we not saved as a baby?
What led us to become unsaved?
Sin (of course).
Only repentance restored you back to God.
The same holds true while one is a believer, as well.

In other words, the parable of the Prodigal Son is two fold in meaning. It has a meaning for the Jews, but it's primary message (that is for the world) is that it is a picture of our entire life. We were saved as a baby, but then went prodigal. We then can return home to the Father thru repentance.

...

Yes I know what you believe. Your sins aren't that bad so you're ok.
However:

Whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point I guilty of breaking all of it
James 2:10

stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Kenny'sID said:
What number post is that, I must have missed it....wasn't intentional.

Page 23. The post starts:

Many today( not saying you do)

stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
So are you saying that you have not listened to any Christian pastors at YouTube or online? He only speaks the Word of God. So you have nothng to fear.

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No I dont listen to pastor on you tube or on line

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Yes I know what you believe. Your sins aren't that bad so you're ok.
However:

Whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point I guilty of breaking all of it
James 2:10

Again, context is key here.

James is not talking about any kind of sin. He is talking about a serious sin that violates the law of love. For he says, "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin," (James 2:9). Paul is talking about the royal law or the law of love (Which is essential to our salvation).

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" (James 2:8).

"For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:11).

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stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Funny. He does not believe in following the Old Covenant as a means of obeying God. So your accusation is false.

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How can I be referring to him?
I never watched the video

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
No I dont listen to pastor on you tube or on line

What about pastors in a church?
What is the difference between viewing a pastor online vs. viewing one in person?

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Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
How can I be referring to him?
I never watched the video

That's exactly the point. You made a false judgment against him because you did not watch his videos (not knowing what he believes).

You said,

"The teachers of the law and Pharisees sit in Moses seat.
So you must be careful to do everything they tell you" ~ Stuart.

Yet, he does not teach the Law of Moses or the Law of the Pharisees. Now, you are acting like you are not referring to him? Yet, in this previous statement you did refer to him by telling me to be careful of him because he is a teacher of the Law and the Pharisees (Which is a false accusation).

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stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Again, context is key here.

James is not talking about any kind of sin. He is talking about a serious sin that violates the law of love. For he says, "But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin," (James 2:9). Paul is talking about the royal law or the law of love (Which is essential to our salvation).

"If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well" (James 2:8).

"For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." (James 2:11).

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You show me where it is written that christians are declared righteous/ justified I they obey the law to a certain standard.

BTW

What's the pass mark of obedience to the law to be righteous under it?

If you don't know, how can you know if you are in a saved state or not?

stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
That's exactly the point. You made a false judgment against him because you did not watch his videos (not knowing what he believes).

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No Jason.

You tell everyone if they love Christ they will obey his commands in the gospels. Yet you yourself do not try and obey all Christs literal commands do you

HatGuy · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
...

Is this dude going to tell me how I can REALLY stop sinning, in thought, word, and deed, or is he going to just tell me to try harder?

Because "try harder" seems to have zero power. I know this, I've tried for years.

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

HatGuy said:
Is this dude going to tell me how I can REALLY stop sinning, in thought, word, and deed, or is he going to just tell me to try harder?

Because "try harder" seems to have zero power. I know this, I've tried for years.

Try watching all of his videos.

Alan Ballou's YouTube Video Page.

Also, pray to God to work thru you.
For it is not by our own power that we can overcome sin, but it is by God's power we can do so.

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Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
You show me where it is written that christians are declared righteous/ justified I they obey the law to a certain standard.

"...he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."
(Hebrews 5:9).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

Stuart said:
BTW

What's the pass mark of obedience to the law to be righteous under it?

You mean the Laws from Jesus and His followers and not the Commands in the Old Covenant, right?

The Royal Law or the law of love (James 2:8) (1 John 3:23).

Stuart said:
If you don't know, how can you know if you are in a saved state or not?

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:3).

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (1 John 5:12).

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Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
No Jason.

You tell everyone if they love Christ they will obey his commands in the gospels. Yet you yourself do not try and obey all Christs literal commands do you

Yes, I do strive or set goals to obey all of Christ's commands. Some of them seem difficult, but I pray and ask God to make that command a reality for my life. Do you even desire or care to do such things? Why wouldn't you want to do those things? Is not pleasing God important to you?

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stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
"...he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him."
(Hebrews 5:9).

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7).

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate" (Titus 1:16).

You mean the Laws from Jesus and His followers and not the Commands in the Old Covenant, right?

The Royal Law or the law of love (James 2:8).

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments." (1 John 2:3).

"He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (1 John 5:12).

...

Well if its the royal law of love you are in big trouble aren't you, for you do not practice what you demand of others, That isn't loving them

I note you have no idea how well you must obey the law to be justified before God under it.

Your belief is not the message of scripture.
Its just excusing your own sin while telling others they will be condemned for there's.

Iassume you haven't read matt ch23 in a while

stuart lawrence · Jan 10, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Yes, I do strive or set goals to obey all of Christ's commands. Some of them seem difficult, but I pray and ask God to make that command a reality for my life. Do you even desire or care to do such things? Why wouldn't you want to do those things? Is not pleasing God important to you?

...

I follow the truth, you don't.
I have to believe what Paul wrote or you insist on. I go with Paul:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ gal6:2

Your way is hypocrisy for you do not practice what you preach

Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
Well if its the royal law of love you are in big trouble aren't you, for you do not practice what you demand of others, That isn't loving them

I note you have no idea how well you must obey the law to be justified before God under it.

Your belief is not the message of scripture.
Its just excusing your own sin while telling others they will be condemned for there's.
Iassume you haven't read matt ch23 in a while

Matthew 23 is at the heart of loving those who are less fortunate. It is not saying we have to do everything on that list (Although, it is a goal we should shoot for), but it is having a heart attitude of naturally helping the poor (instead of turning our noses up at them). Do I help the poor? This is something that I prefer to keep as a treasure between me and my God (So as not to boast before men but so that the Father may reward me openly me for doing things in secret for Him).

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Bible Highlighter · Jan 10, 2017

stuart lawrence said:
I follow the truth, you don't.
I have to believe what Paul wrote or you insist on. I go with Paul:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ gal6:2

Your way is hypocrisy for you do not practice what you preach

Following the truth means actually doing what God's Word says.
If a person says they believe the Bible and yet they do not strive to put what it says into practice, they are a hypocrite. The person who strives to obey God is not hypocrital because God realizes that it takes time to Sanctify his body of believers and make them perfect in Him. But a believer who throws up their arms in defeat in defense of sin is defending the devil's kingdom and not God's kingdom because there is no darkness in God. God is holy. God is good. God is love and He shines out the darkness. Jesus helps His people to conquer and defeat sin in their life. For 1 John 3:8 says, the Son of God was manifested to destroy the works of the devil.

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Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Some guy in a hat

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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